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Looking back on Episode 1, was it really that bad? (on its own merits?)


T-Min

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GoalRing, I've noticed that a few of your posts lately have been nothing but "This." or "SO MUCH WIN." This is spam and spam isn't allowed so we would like it if you cut it out.

Doing a mod action with this avatar/signature feels wrong

No Sean.

It feels so right.

And I agree with T-Man. Despite the backlash it gets, I still enjoy the heck out of Sonic 4: Episode 1 and I play it often on the go. Its flaws don't really mar the experience for me as much as it would others.

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Does my eyes deceive me or Sean has sparkled Rainbow Dash all over himself? Tell me that my eyes are deceiving me PLEASE.

Anyway, I find Sonic DL an "okay" game. I mean sure it has some horrible flaws with the level design, butt-ugly graphics, automation, the rehashed levels and bosses, Bubble chains, terrible BGM, the physics....okay, after saying all that, it's pretty much a bad game.

I admire Sega and Dimps to "attempt" to bring back the old Sonic formula we know, but sorry it looks like it's never going to work this way. They rebuilt the engine for Episode 2, and instead of changing the most important areas that needs serious improvement, they only improved the graphics. They clearly didn't do enough research.

What makes it worse though, which completely throws my respect for this game out of the window, is that they claim this to be Sonic 4, the true sequel to the classics. In what way does it look like the classics? Tell me. Except that the game is in 2D and Episode 2 has Tails (which isn't fully playable). Nothing. It doesn't play like the classics at all. Even the Advance games are much closer to it, then this.

P.S - This is one of the reasons why Sonic Adventure 3 should never happen. If it does and they behave the same way like they did to Sonic 4, well...

Edited by Ming Ming Love
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It did take some time for me to get used to the controls and physics, but after that, I kind of started to enjoy the game. I tried doing some speed runs and I actually spent a lot of time with the game. In my book, it was a lot more enjoyable than some of the other Sonic games we had at the time. Then came Sonic Colors and S4E1 was suddenly hated by all mankind. I started to lose interest too, since there is just so much you can do with 4 zones until you get sick of it.

Sonic 4 is still something I play every now and then. Since it is in the memory of my Wii, I sometimes play it when I can't be bothered to change the game disks. I never turn the Wii on just to play it, but when I'm done playing something else, it's sometimes nice to have a short runthrough through the game. I don't hate it, but I wouldn't exactly place it in my favorites either.

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Episode 1 isn't as bad as some people make it out to be, it's by no means a good game, but it can be fun sometimes.

It definitely would have copped less flak if it was just Sonic HD/Sonic DL, but I doubt most people would have liked it that much more.

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Siding with Dio here. Even when you're not comparing it to the classic games and are just viewing it as a regular Sonic game/downloadable game, Episode I still sucks. Nicely summed up in this quote by MrFranklin from the Sega Forums. Spoilered for length.

This is what people don't get. There are so many things stacked against the game for someone who isn't viewing it with rose tinted glasses.

The game fails as a classic game, providing only a classic graphical front end that rehashes 99% of the visual content designs with a new lick of paint.

The game fails at producing good physics, let alone classic physics. The game has no momentium and this ties in with the point below.

The game is stiff and mechanical, full of speed boosters and auto assists, basically everything the classic fans don't like about the 3D games.

The game looks cheap, even the modern Sonic design isn't that high quality. Uses low polygon models in several areas against awful cut and pasted segments of flat level. It fails at graphics and in some ways looks worse than the classics - at least looks less polised. There are broken seams and overlay issues everywhere. There were hardly any people making the game.

They disrespected the people who do love the classic sonic design (which only helped inflame people) its not important to me but its like the final insult on a game that isn't classic in any way.

They forced the homing attack into the game, lied saying it was optional when it isn't if you want to make good time, making every attempt to reach a higher tier of the level a brainless attempt at mashing the homing attack button. They put uncurling the game which breaks your flow and forces you to use homing attack more which also breaks your flow.

The game has rubbish music.

They were ready to release it with 2 less real levels than it has now, it was only because it got leaked we managed to get 2 new levels for the console versions.

The Wii limits it badly and all the other consoles suffer for it, because of the 50mb space limit on Wii. The Iphone holds it back, guess which platform its physics work noticibily better with than the classics - the iphone.

The games spindash and rolling attack don't even work they slow you down. You have to spam air dash and homing attack to maintain any pace. Jump Inertia is gone, in very few platforming games do you drop down when you let go of d-pad this is just stupid and unnatural.

Sonic no longer feels like a pinball and yet you have a pinball orientated casino level. With no momentium it sucks.

You can walk up walls. Everything classic fans hated about rush except the boost and tricks system is back.

All 4 zones are stupidly strongly based on ones we've seen before, rehashing each boss that belonged to the stage its based on and sometimes making the boss less challenging. This only makes comparisons more clear.

The game fails at value for money compared to other competing platformers and it doesn't have any defining features of the classics that keep you coming back to it.

The game gets nostalgia backwards and thought it'd be ok even though many people still play the classics often.

The most challenging boss in the game, the final boss, is also a rehash.

The game throws away nearly all the advancing elements that people liked about Sonic 3, like the bonus stages, the other characters. Pretty much everything. It doesn't even feel like the first Episode feels like a standalone game that was meant to be a partial remake on the iphone, that got renamed late in development to Sonic 4 Episode 1 and ported to consoles with enhancements.

Oh and it embrassingly plays worse than the Advance series that have more classic physics. And it has level design akin to the worst Advance game, Advance 2. With the bottomless pit traps of Advance 3 at the end of every level.

The game unlocks all 4 zones in one go after the first level leaving you with no sence of progression and you actually have to press A to get the illusion but you will be tempted to just try any level at random which spoils the suprise and fun. After you've beaten the game in 1 hour, or 2-3 hours if you want the chaos emeralds. You'll probably never touch it again.

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I don't mind the game too much, but these are my thoughts.

Sonic 4 Episode 1 felt like it was catering to people who say things such as "Sonic is only good in 2D" and "Sonic doesn't work in 3D". It felt to me like the developers were approaching fan-service in a pedantic manner.

While listening to these fans, it seems like they just shrugged and said "Wonder why they don't just play Sonic Rush? Maybe they just can't be bothered buying a DS. Let's make a 2D Sonic game for consoles so that these fans can buy it!"

Effectively, that was what it was supposedly meant to be. A spin-off title with a bit of rehash that played in the vein of Rush and Rush Adventure. I assume that it was going be more or less the PartnerNet version of S4E1 with better music. Then the trailer was announced, which used old classic sound effects, no footage, promising phrases like "Speed Returns" and "All new 2D adventure", which implied a return to Classic Sonic, and all the Classic fans were hoping for this game to be Sonic 4.

Now, people moan about Sonic fans complaining about everything, but to be honest, if you're asking for one thing in a game and the developers constantly seem to make a half-hearted attempt at implementing these things, you can't blame them...

Sonic Adventure 2

Sega: We're not featuring as many characters this time round, but we're going to appease this with the quality of the game.

Fans: We want Tails to be in the game!

*Tails appears in the game, but plays identical to eggman, in a mech*

Fans: That's not what we meant!

Sonic Heroes

Sega: We want this game to have a more classic style, with bright colours and familiar tropes. We're even bringing back the chaotix!

Fans: I hope that each story play the same, like the classics, and we want special stages to return.

*Every story plays similar, with all the same levels, but all need to be completed to complete the game. To add further injury, Super Sonic isn't playable in regular levels despite the return of special stages.*

Fans: That's not what we meant!

Sonic 06

Sega: As this is the 15th anniversary, we want to undo the things people didn't like about some of the recent Sonic games.

Fans: We want the game to play like Sonic adventure

*The game takes cues from Sonic Adventure, but all the wrong ones*

Fans: That's not what we meant!

Sonic 4 (Sonic DL)

Sega: We have an all new 2D game for all consoles in the works, which we know you've wanted for some time.

Fans: If this game isn't Sonic 4, we're going to scream!

*Sonic DL is hastily renamed Sonic 4*

Fans: That's not what we meant! Make the game more like the classic games!

*Sonic's running animation is altered, and two minigame levels are changed to full levels*

Fans: That's not what we meant!

Basically Sega/Dimps were trying to turn a game that wasn't intended to be a Classic Sonic game into a Classic Sonic game. And they achieved this by changing petty little things (Admittedly, the fans did complain about the slot machine and minecart levels, not sure about the running animation), as opposed to things like physics,level design and level tropes.

The music seemed to be 'trying too hard but not trying hard enough'. In plenty of Sonic games, there were music tracks that had a classic, retro feel without making the track sound like the console it's being played on has severe limitations.

Take Twinkle Circuit, for example. In comparison to the orchestral "Militant Missionary" or the jazzy "Blue Star", or the more Dance-style "At dawn" has a deliberate retro, synthy style. The same goes for the prototype (and to some extent, final) version of Casino Park in Sonic Heroes. Both of these tracks are by Jun Senoue, who did Sonic 4 Episode 1's entire soundtrack. Why did he have to make all the music fifteen-second loops with a rancid soundfont? It almost sounds like He's mocking the Mega Drive's sound capabilities. Admittedly, he only used that soundfont after not being able to find a better way to make his music sound 16-bit, but why didn't he use one of the soundfonts or synths used for one of the tracks I mentioned above?

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Sonic Heroes

Sega: We want this game to have a more classic style, with bright colours and familiar tropes. We're even bringing back the chaotix!

Fans: I hope that each story play the same, like the classics, and we want special stages to return.

*Every story plays similar, with all the same levels, but all need to be completed to complete the game. To add further injury, Super Sonic isn't playable in regular levels despite the return of special stages.*

Fans: That's not what we meant!

Sonic 06

Sega: As this is the 15th anniversary, we want to undo the things people didn't like about some of the recent Sonic games.

Fans: We want the game to play like Sonic adventure

*The game takes cues from Sonic Adventure, but all the wrong ones*

Fans: That's not what we meant!

In regards to Sonic Heroes and 06, the fans wanted said games to be like the classics/Adventure games in some/most aspects before the games started development. So the games were designed with some of the fan feedback/requests in mind.

Sonic 4 (Sonic DL)

Sega: We have an all new 2D game for all consoles in the works, which we know you've wanted for some time.

Fans: If this game isn't Sonic 4, we're going to scream!

*Sonic DL is hastily renamed Sonic 4*

Fans: That's not what we meant! Make the game more like the classic games!

*Sonic's running animation is altered, and two minigame levels are changed to full levels*

Fans: That's not what we meant!

Wut.

How the heck could the classic fans, let alone anyone outside Sega/Sonic Team/Dimps, want Sonic DL changed into "Sonic 4" if they didn't even know such a game existed at that time! And I'm pretty sure that a lot of classic fas wouldn't had minded if what is currently known as "Sonic 4" retained it's original name as "Sonic DL."

Edited by Madame Amano
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I still say that this game wasn't bad by any means. Yeah, the physics aren't good (When compared to the classics) but I really don't care about crap like that. As long as I'm having fun with what the game has to offer, I'm cool, and I had a lot of fun playing this game.

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Wut.

How the heck could the classic fans, let alone anyone outside Sega/Sonic Team/Dimps, want Sonic DL changed into "Sonic 4" if they didn't even know such a game existed at that time! And I'm pretty sure that a lot of classic fas wouldn't had minded if what is currently known as "Sonic 4" retained it's original name as "Sonic DL."

Of course they didn't know it was called Sonic DL. They were hoping for the game to be Sonic 4, or an equivalent. At the time of its announcement, no one outside of Sega was even certain that it was a downloadable title.

The first trailer, which showed absolutely nothing, had the implication that Sonic 4/DL was going to be a sequel to the classic titles, with statements like "All new 2D adventure", and the classic sound effects, as well as the Sillhouete at the end. What it was originally meant to be was a downloadable title that may not have even been episodic, that was just meant to be a 2D spinoff title that probably wasn't even part of the Sonic canon, like Pocket adventure.

But people wanted a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and made that clear. What they wanted was not what Sega was intending to release, so they hastily made changes in attempt to cater to the classic fans who were expecting a fourth installment in the classic games.

I think that if they had explicitly stated that Sonic 4 Episode 1 was not going to be a sequel to the classic titles, and simply a 2D game to cater to everyone like Sonic Rush or the advance titles, no one would have requested for the game to be Sonic 4.

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Sonic 4 Ep1 is an okay game on it's. If the physic's in Ep1 had been the same as in the mega drive/genesis games then Ep1 almost certainly would have been better recevied. It wasn't just that the physic's were different, they were poor. The music didn't blow your mind. The graphics were okay, again nothing spectacular. The story of Ep1 was crap. Only having four zones felt too short (like Sonic 3 on it's own). The Levels did not need to mirror levels in Sonic 1&2. The worst mistake calling it Sonic 4 - great from a marketing point as it sold well, but not a true sequel to the genesis game alienating a lot of fans.

So yes okay but could and SHOULD have been so much more. I hope Ep2 is a much better sequel.

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But people wanted a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and made that clear. What they wanted was not what Sega was intending to release, so they hastily made changes in attempt to cater to the classic fans who were expecting a fourth installment in the classic games.

From what I've gathered, Sonic DL was simply going to be a downloadable Dimps Sonic game, but thanks to Sega's exectutive meddling the name was changed to Sonic 4 in order to haul in more money, and presumably as a result the game was changed to "look" and "sound" like a classic game.

Edited by Madame Amano
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From what I've gathered, Sonic DL was simply going to be a downloadable Dimps Sonic game, but thanks to Sega's exectutive meddling the name was changed to Sonic 4 in order to haul in more money, and presumably as a result the game was changed to "look" and "sound" like a classic game.

I bloody wish everyone would stop using the name "Sonic DL". As Jun Senoue said, he was asked to do the music for a classic/Megadrive style game for which the name hadn't yet been decided. It was never Sonic DL, just a classic 'style' game that was eventually named Sonic 4. Simple.

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I bloody wish everyone would stop using the name "Sonic DL". As Jun Senoue said, he was asked to do the music for a classic/Megadrive style game for which the name hadn't yet been decided. It was never Sonic DL, just a classic 'style' game that was eventually named Sonic 4. Simple.

I guess the reason people use the name "Sonic DL" for Sonic 4 was because apparently the name appeared on the PSN store when the Project Needlemouse trailer was put on the PSN or something like that, not 100% sure. I guess people assumed that Sonic DL was a prototype name for Sonic 4 and the name stuck.

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I guess the reason people use the name "Sonic DL" for Sonic 4 was because apparently the name appeared on the PSN store when the Project Needlemouse trailer was put on the PSN or something like that, not 100% sure. I guess people assumed that Sonic DL was a prototype name for Sonic 4 and the name stuck.

Right. And if that was the case then it was simply tentative.

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Now, people moan about Sonic fans complaining about everything, but to be honest, if you're asking for one thing in a game and the developers constantly seem to make a half-hearted attempt at implementing these things, you can't blame them...

I think it's funny cause they mock fans for complaining about the games once we start putting our foot down. But before they always say stuff like the fans accept whatever crap Sega gives to them and now they're complaining about the fans complaining. :\

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Going off what everyone else said, no it was not.

Sonic 4 is the epitome of Laziness, and uninspired design, and they clearly are only trying to pacify the whining fanbrats who bitched about another 2D game. Like Sean said, I don't expect games to be spectacular by any means, but I do expect them to be great to some extent; whether with music, graphics, storytelling, etc. Plus, its Sonic 4 as in the sequel to the Classic series, let's compare what Sonic 3 & Knuckles brought compared to Sonic 4 shall we?

Sonic 3 & Knuckles:

1. Continues the story directly from Sonic 2.

2. Introduces a new antagonist/playable character in Knuckles

3. There are 14 levels as opposed to 11.

4. The levels are bigger.

5. Introduces the elemental shields.

6. Tails can fly, as well as carry Sonic short distances.

7. Super Emeralds, and Hyper Forms are introduced.

8. All new Bosses(aside from the two in Sky Sanctuary, but I digress)

9. All new Badniks, or revamped badniks from the last three games.

10. YOU WERE FINALLY ABLE TO SAVE YOUR PROGRESS.

Sonic 4:

1. The story is completely disconnected from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, as almost no reference is made to the game.

2. Sonic is the only playable character for some reason.

3. The levels went from 14 to 4, as well as all of them being a blatant ripoff of previous levels.

4. The elemental shields are gone in favor of the generic one from Sonic 1.

5. Tails isn't playable at all in Episode 2 aside from Co-op.

6. Hyper Forms are gone, and no equivalent is made.

7. Every Boss is rehashed.

9. Every badnik is rehashed, and some are actually downgraded from the previous game(Fucking Bubbles).

So by this comparison, not only is Sonic 4 a bad game by itself, its actually a regression from the game its supposed to be a sequel to, I mean really is there any wonder why almost everybody hates this game? And the people who do love it either A. Have never played any of the previous Classic titles for a good comparison. or B. Are under the mentality that if its a 2D Sonic game, it must be good.

I think it's funny cause they mock fans for complaining about the games once we start putting our foot down. But before they always say stuff like the fans accept whatever crap Sega gives to them and now they're complaining about the fans complaining. :\

Which is why the media's word is as credible as my 5 year old cousin's, they're either complaining about how much our fanbase sucks(which it does half the time), or complaining that the new Sonic game doesn't quite meet their "standards".

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