Rebooting the Franchise: Good or Bad?

[Neon The Hedgehog]

I'm not sure how the reboot would be approached. Would you all want a clean slate storywise, acting as if all the games never happened to stream line things and use a more consistent cast of characters? I'm actually be mixed if they took this approach: it leaves more room for a fresh take on Sonic's world and characters, but I'd still feel a little bummed knowing the world and continuity of the old games was gone.

 

How about gameplay? Would you want them to choose or combine gameplay styles from the past to represent it, or would you want something new altogether?

               Personally I think that they should keep all the characters. There are fanbases for each character so it would be unfair to the fans to take any of them away (Except I don't know if there is a fan base for Big, since I never met anyone who likes him the most. But what the hay, keep the large kitty weirdo too ). Frankly I don't care what happens to the story, as long as its going in a positive direction. But if they took the characters away I would be mad. Like emotocon overload mad,      . I'm not saying all of the characters have to appear in each game, just that they are kept in mind. I also would like to see some new characters as well.

           I know most people say, "the sonic series has a million characters already, it doesn't need anymore!". However, I feel like adding new characters is part of what helps the story evolve. People expect to see someone new pop up in the Sonic universe every now and then. 

[Jet Prower]

               Personally I think that they should keep all the characters. There are fanbases for each character so it would be unfair to the fans to take any of them away (Except I don't know if there is a fan base for Big, since I never met anyone who likes him the most. But what the hay, keep the large kitty weirdo too ). Frankly I don't care what happens to the story, as long as its going in a positive direction. But if they took the characters away I would be mad. Like emotocon overload mad,      . I'm not saying all of the characters have to appear in each game, just that they are kept in mind. I also would like to see some new characters as well.

           I know most people say, "the sonic series has a million characters already, it doesn't need anymore!". However, I feel like adding new characters is part of what helps the story evolve. People expect to see someone new pop up in the Sonic universe every now and then. 

 

I love this attitude. I do agree that I like all the characters in the series for the most part. Just throwing stuff out and such with retconning and rebooting still as I said shouldn't be the answer. If we need gaps in the stories fixed, there are other ways to do that. For the most part, you always run the risk of hurting people that like certain things when you try and throw certain characters or stories out. I know the fanbase is really hard to please with everyone having their own opinions on what they like and dislike and what things should or shouldn't have happened, but respecting those opinions is what more people need to do.

 

Lots of us have fan characters and make up new people for rp's and other such all the time for the sonic universe to give it more depth, yet some then say there should be alot fewer characters in the universe. I agree that there should be more people in the background to give the universe more life. I still don't agree with retconning or rebooting for the most part unless thing are just going horribly wrong.

[Neon The Hedgehog]

I love this attitude. I do agree that I like all the characters in the series for the most part. Just throwing stuff out and such with retconning and rebooting still as I said shouldn't be the answer. If we need gaps in the stories fixed, there are other ways to do that. For the most part, you always run the risk of hurting people that like certain things when you try and throw certain characters or stories out. I know the fanbase is really hard to please with everyone having their own opinions on what they like and dislike and what things should or shouldn't have happened, but respecting those opinions is what more people need to do.

 

Lots of us have fan characters and make up new people for rp's and other such all the time for the sonic universe to give it more depth, yet some then say there should be alot fewer characters in the universe. I agree that there should be more people in the background to give the universe more life. I still don't agree with retconning or rebooting for the most part unless thing are just going horribly wrong.

          Exactly ! Not to mention that Sega makes a lot of their merchandise profits off of the other characters. It costs money to make these high quality games. I know that the older fans don't like shadow or silver. But the little eight year olds who play the games do, so Sega makes a bundle off of selling action figures to them. Plus the older fans of classic Sonic enjoy Tails, Eggman, and Knuckles merchandise. SSMB has a whole section dedicated to selling and purchasing Sonic merchandise. And a good part of that merchandise is from selling the characters of Sonic other than sonic. So marketing wise it would be bad for sega to get rid of all of the characters. I realise that money profits is a cold way to look at the direction of Sonic, but the fact remains that the other characters are important to the funds Sega gets to make the Sonic games what they are today.

[Jet Prower]

          Exactly ! Not to mention that Sega makes a lot of their merchandise profits off of the other characters. It costs money to make these high quality games. I know that the older fans don't like shadow or silver. But the little eight year olds who play the games do, so Sega makes a bundle off of selling action figures to them. Plus the older fans of classic Sonic enjoy Tails, Eggman, and Knuckles merchandise. SSMB has a whole section dedicated to selling and purchasing Sonic merchandise. And a good part of that merchandise is from selling the characters of Sonic other than sonic. So marketing wise it would be bad for sega to get rid of all of the characters. I realise that money profits is a cold way to look at the direction of Sonic, but the fact remains that the other characters are important to the funds Sega gets to make the Sonic games what they are today.

 

There is nothing wrong with making money off these characters at all. If Sega and such weren't making money off these characters or the francise in general, they wouldn't even keep promoting the games at all. The main thing is to hope the companies never cross that line like Capcom and EA have over time, where money becomes your main motivator instead of making your fans happy. I'm sure Sega has a good part of them to make money as well. They need to stay in business like everyone else. There just still needs tobe that fan love that other companies don't have. When you care more about the cash than making your fans happy, you are going to go downhill fast.

[daman825]

They need to get rid of alot of characters. cut down the protagonists that you see in most games to Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Shadow usually with  only 1 extra ( not sonic) playable characters per game. This gives them alot more time to work on level design. It also allows them to craft a better story. 

 

Amy needs a design overhaul along with a personality overhaul (she's incredibly annoying atm). Shadow could use a design and personality overhaul as well. Shadow The Hedgehog (the game) really ruined his image. Make him more serious, and less depressed. Gameplay wise, differentiate him from Sonic in ways that don't include giving him the ability to ride Harleys and shoot assault rifles.

 

Other "good" characters should only show up occasionally or make cameo appearances in games (Espio, Blaze, Vector, Charmy). 

 

Rouge, Cream,  and Silver should never show up in another sonic game ever. Rouge looks like she should be working the curb, Cream is the most annoying videogame character ever created, and silver is just lame (a hedgehog who runs super slow). 

 

PRIMARY antagonists should primarily consist of Eggman and Metal Sonic with a "big bad guy" revealed at some point in some games (Chaos, time eater). Forcing a huge villain into every game leads to really (and i mean really) bad designs (looking at you Solaris).

Edited September 6, 2013 by daman825

[Kuzu]

^someone just got banned for shitting on Shadow, then another new member shows up shitting on other characters. Oh gee

[Nepenthe]

That person wasn't banned for badmouthing a character. Continue on the discussion as normal without making public inferences about why people may have been banned or who is in trouble.

[Wraith]

Sorry Nepenthe. Didn't see your post.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Plasm Wraith

[Diogenes]

Rouge looks like she should be working the curb

Man, this is duuuuumb. Comparing her to a prostitute for being a fairly basic and tame sexy spy archetype is kind of ridiculous.

 

^someone just got banned for shitting on Shadow, then another new member shows up shitting on other characters. Oh gee

Are we not allowed to dislike characters now?

[Tornado]

They need to get rid of alot of characters. cut down the protagonists that you see in most games to Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Shadow usually with  only 1 extra ( not sonic) playable characters per game. This gives them alot more time to work on level design. It also allows them to craft a better story. 

 

Amy needs a design overhaul along with a personality overhaul (she's incredibly annoying atm). Shadow could use a design and personality overhaul as well. Shadow The Hedgehog (the game) really ruined his image. Make him more serious, and less depressed. Gameplay wise, differentiate him from Sonic in ways that don't include giving him the ability to ride Harleys and shoot assault rifles.

 

Other "good" characters should only show up occasionally or make cameo appearances in games (Espio, Blaze, Vector, Charmy). 

 

Rouge, Cream,  and Silver should never show up in another sonic game ever. Rouge looks like she should be working the curb, Cream is the most annoying videogame character ever created, and silver is just lame (a hedgehog who runs super slow). 

 

PRIMARY antagonists should primarily consist of Eggman and Metal Sonic with a "big bad guy" revealed at some point in some games (Chaos, time eater). Forcing a huge villain into every game leads to really (and i mean really) bad designs (looking at you Solaris).

 

Wow. This post definitely doesn't sound like it was written in 2006 or so.

Are we not allowed to dislike characters now?

That sounds like a good idea. We'll discuss it at the next meeting.

[Kuzu]

 

Are we not allowed to dislike characters now?

 

No, it just seems a little odd we have another new member with similar posting habits, but its not my place to judge so that's all I'm saying on the subject.

[daman825]

No, it just seems a little odd we have another new member with similar posting habits, but its not my place to judge so that's all I'm saying on the subject.

 

All i'm saying is that she is a bat.....  with cleavage, curves, high heels, lipstick, and spandex. 

 

And to quickly reply to the other guy without getting too off-topic. This is how I feel about these characters. IMO, when asked if Sega should reboot sonic, my response is not entirely, but they should definitely go back a bit since the last time they went all out with the characters it didn't quite work out for them. You can have an opinion on these characters too. and I'm more than willing to discuss our opinions together. I'm not here to make personal attacks and if you get offended by me hating on a character, just tell me.  It's nothing personal, I don't judge.

 

But yeah, maybe the prostitute thing was too much. I just don't feel like she "fits" in with everyone else. And if Sega wants to start improving their stories and characters, they are going to have to rework some things. And IMO that includes getting rid of Rouge. 

 

*EDIT* sorry about that....messed the quotes up.

Edited September 7, 2013 by daman825

[sonfan1984]

What's the point in getting rid of alot of characters when those characters doesn't even show up in the recent games as it is?

[daman825]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

ok why is it like that now? (i'm talking about my white and gray post.)

Edited September 7, 2013 by daman825

[daman825]

What's the point in getting rid of alot of characters when those characters doesn't even show up in the recent games as it is?

Well then they would have already gotten rid of them and I don't have a problem anymore. 

 

Like alot of people here, Sonic is my favorite videogame character, Sonic 2 was the very first game I ever played. Sonic started out really good,  and I was disappointing when the games started dropping in quality as more and more characters were introduced, and is now doing really good again after support characters have been given more support roles. I don't think that's coincidence. IMO Sega has been making the best sonic games in decades partially because they can tailor the stage to a single moveset (sonics) and don't have to worry about shoehorning in other characters that only take development time from whats really important (the gameplay).

 

At the same time, I'm not going to boycott sega if Rouge or any other character I don't like is in the next game. If the consensus is that it's good, then i'll get it. I just want Sonic in general to be taken more seriously. The games still have a ways to go before they hit that mario level polish. And until a sonic game comes out that can be accepted by most  as a truly amazing, genre defining platforming game, then I feel that Sega should trim the characters down a bit. And those are the characters that i think would be the ones who should go.

Edited September 7, 2013 by daman825

[Nepenthe]

 

All i'm saying is that she is a bat.....  with cleavage, curves, high heels, lipstick, and spandex. 

 

 

So the same outfit Black Widow from the Marvel comics has? I like how having these things automatically makes a female character come off as a slut, and not actually doing slutty things.... which Rouge doesn't do anyway. In fact, she subverts base sexuality through her actions so much and is positively promoted in the series through her constant leadership roles and equal camaraderie with her team mates that has no romantic or sexual inclinations whatsoever, that it actually adds to the facepalm-worthiness of the original inclination to say that Rouge of all characters comes across as a whore.

 

I just can't. Like, I physically cannot.

[daman825]

 

Wow. This post definitely doesn't sound like it was written in 2006 or so.

That sounds like a good idea. We'll discuss it at the next meeting.

Well one of the main reasons Sonic 06 was so bad was because Sonic team shoehorned in almost every relevant sonic character at the time into the game. One of the main criticisms that most have with the story is how convoluted it is due to all the characters (new and old) who are all trying to do their own thing. And i feel that the gameplay suffered as well due to the amount of characters put in the game. I bet knuckles would actually be able to get off walls if Sega didn't worry about creating a model and making sure that omega didn't break when you started to play as him. You have to know your limits. There should only be so many characters in sonic games in order for the game to play amazingly for the characters that are playable. And I think that Sonic Teams history shows that. 

 

But that's just what I think. If there are more people who want rouge, silver, and cream in the next sonic game than there are people who don't want them in, then I think Sega should act accordingly.

So the same outfit Black Widow from the Marvel comics has? I like how having these things automatically makes a female character come off as a slut, and not actually doing slutty things.... which Rouge doesn't do anyway. In fact, she subverts base sexuality through her actions so much and is positively promoted in the series through her constant leadership roles and equal camaraderie with her team mates that has no romantic or sexual inclinations whatsoever, that it actually adds to the facepalm-worthiness of the original inclination to say that Rouge of all characters comes across as a whore.

 

I just can't. Like, I physically cannot.

no no no, i'm not saying Rouge is a sexist stereotype. I'm saying that I don't think a Black Widow like character  belongs in a sonic game. Sonic games are more...... lighthearted and are usually rated E or E10. I always found it weird as a kid that she was in sonic games. I was never grossed out by it or anything, it just felt like she didn't belong. I mean, if Sonic made a guest appearance as a hero in the next Avengers movie, I would say the same thing.

 

*edited in a few more detailes*

Edited September 7, 2013 by daman825

[Diogenes]

All i'm saying is that she is a bat.....  with cleavage, curves, high heels, lipstick, and spandex.

Yes, and?

I mean, no one's asking you to fuck her. But she's supposed to be a sexy spy type of character, and everything you listed plays into that. I mean, I'll admit that maybe the cleavage was unnecessary, but even that is relatively tame. What's wrong with a character having lipsick, and heels, and curves?

no no no, i'm not saying Rouge is a sexist stereotype. I'm saying that I don't think a Black Widow like character  belongs in a sonic game. Sonic games are more...... lighthearted and are usually rated E or E10. I always found it weird as a kid that she was in sonic games.

Well, okay, but...why? What's she do that's not Sonic-appropriate? Edited September 7, 2013 by Diogenes

[Komodin]

 

All i'm saying is that she is a bat.....  with cleavage, curves, high heels, lipstick, and spandex. 

 

... So what? That doesn't mean that she's "slutty" or anything ridiculous like that.

[Kuzu]

 

no no no, i'm not saying Rouge is a sexist stereotype. I'm saying that I don't think a Black Widow like character  belongs in a sonic game. Sonic games are more...... lighthearted and are usually rated E or E10. I always found it weird that she was in sonic games. 

 

So how does Rouge's appearance change that when she isn't sexualized in anyway?

[Nepenthe]

Well one of the main reasons Sonic 06 was so bad was because Sonic team shoehorned in almost every relevant sonic character at the time into the game. One of the main criticisms that most have with the story is how convoluted it is due to all the characters (new and old) who are all trying to do their own thing. And i feel that the gameplay suffered as well due to the amount of characters put in the game. I bet knuckles would actually be able to get off walls if Sega didn't worry about creating a model and making sure that omega didn't break when you started to play as him. You have to know your limits. There should only be so many characters in sonic games in order for the game to play amazingly for the characters that are playable. And I think that Sonic Teams history shows that. 

 

But that's just what I think. If there are more people who want rouge, silver, and cream in the next sonic game than there are people who don't want them in, then I think Sega should act accordingly.

no no no, i'm not saying Rouge is a sexist stereotype. I'm saying that I don't think a Black Widow like character  belongs in a sonic game. Sonic games are more...... lighthearted and are usually rated E or E10. I always found it weird that she was in sonic games.

 

 

You don't need to have every character available in a game to have a large cast. Consider the cast a backlog and rotate characters out depending upon the circumstances of each individual game. No one really cared when the Black Knight essentially had Shadow, Blaze, and Knuckles as playable characters alongside Sonic. And maybe we can have a game where Cream, Espio, and Omega are the co-stars, or Tails and Vector, or whomever else you can think of. Use everyone sparingly, don't throw every character away.

 

no no no, i'm not saying Rouge is a sexist stereotype. I'm saying that I don't think a Black Widow like character  belongs in a sonic game. Sonic games are more...... lighthearted and are usually rated E or E10. I always found it weird as a kid that she was in sonic games. I was never grossed out by it or anything, it just felt like she didn't belong. I mean, if Sonic made a guest appearance as a hero in the next Avengers movie, I would say the same thing.

That's essentially what you originally said by saying Rouge looks like she should be working the corner. :/

Regardless, even your revision is disagreeable. There is nothing inherently dark or unfitting about a character that looks like Rouge, because femme fatale stereotypes are apparent in a range of fiction meant for children and general audiences. Again, Black Widow. The Avengers. You can't pay me to say Black Widow's presence completely ruins the fun and bombastic nature of that entire film and is inappropriate. Same with Disney's Who Framed Roger Rabbit, where said woman- who is much more blatantly sexual than Rouge ever will be- is dating an anthropomorphic rabbit. Heck, why stop at women? What about The Tramp? He actually screws every single female he comes across as denoted by the famous song and scene at the pound, including Lady, and this roaming is part of the conflict between the two. And this was in a cartoon about dogs from the 50s. Literally, to say that Rouge doesn't belong, you are inherently implying Sonic is more immature than Disney of all companies.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Nepenthe
'nother example

[daman825]

So how does Rouge's appearance change that when she isn't sexualized in anyway?

She is sexualized. The people who created her want her to be sexy. And alot of her dialogue supports that. 

[daman825]

 

 

You don't need to have every character available in a game to have a large cast. Consider the cast a backlog and rotate characters out depending upon the circumstances of each individual game. No one really cared when the Black Knight essentially had Shadow, Blaze, and Knuckles as playable characters alongside Sonic. And maybe we can have a game where Cream, Espio, and Omega are the co-stars, or Tails and Vector, or whomever else you can think of. Use everyone sparingly, don't throw every character away.

 

That's essentially what you originally said by saying Rouge looks like she should be working the corner. :/

Regardless, even your revision is disagreeable. There is nothing inherently dark or unfitting about a character that looks like Rouge, because femme fatale stereotypes are apparent in a range of fiction meant for children and general audiences. Again, Black Widow. The Avengers. You can't pay me to say Black Widow's presence completely ruins the fun and bombastic nature of that entire film and is inappropriate. Same with Disney's Who Framed Roger Rabbit, where said woman- who is much more blatantly sexual than Rouge ever will be- is dating an anthropomorphic rabbit. Literally, to say that Rouge doesn't belong, you are inherently implying Sonic is more immature than Disney of all companies.

Ok, I don't know how to create separate quotes but bear with me

 

I feel like a reasonable sonic game cast would be rather small. So probably around 5-6 characters(not all playable) maybe a bit less depending on how big of a game it is in terms of story and such. One of those character "spots" is always take by sonic, another should almost always be given to tails. That means we have 3-4 open spots for supporting characters.(This is where I make my point) Now going off of the characters that appeared in generations, there are a potential of 10 characters to choose from and console sonic games are usually released every two years or so. That means it could potentially be six years to get through all of them. And that doesn't include any new characters Sega want's to introduce (it seems like they usually want to introduce one ever game or every other game). 

 

Keeping the characters there doesn't make much sense if you want to condense the # of characters per game. Now, I'm not just saying throw characters away left and right. give Rouge, Cream, and Silver happy endings (Silvers ending is already perfect), and then move on. It happens all the time in other games, characters are introduced,some stay, and others leave. I just picked the three characters that I think matter the least or are needed the least in the grand scheme of things. IMO, I would handle the sonic franchise by limiting the characters per game to Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, and Shadow(or a new hedgehog, maybe a female one). Then new characters would be introduced in individual games, and Sonic and friends would go on a dangerous quest to help that character (or characters) save the world. Then the character that was just introduced wouldn't show up again sans spin-off games or anniversary,generations like games.

 

And Rouge is a sexy bat. I guess that's my main problem with her. Also, the Sonic universe has a completely different vibe compared to a marvel movie. it's totally different. Sonic adventure 2 was rated E. six year olds could buy it. Six year olds cant buy a ticket to the Avengers. I just don't think a sexy bat is a very important character that is worth keeping around in future sonic games. It seems like they are phasing her out anyway though. so, I guess that also has a part to play in my willingness to see her go. I haven't seen her do anything since 2006.

Edited September 7, 2013 by daman825

[Uraraka]

Honestly, about Rouge... I like her as a character because of her personality, not so much for her appearance. I sometimes wish she could get a minor redesign only because she is controversial simply because of her appearance. She, with the exception of Sonic Free Riders (where she is just,like, a selfish old lady), is a character with a mysterious and complex personality. She is funny, sarcastic, a bit selfish, yet she is also deep inside a very caring and compassionate person. She has some kind of secret, like a mysterious past. I like to toy around with what kind of life she may have had as a kid to get the way she is. She almost seems a little hardened, especially toward the idea of falling in love, which makes me wonder if she suffered some kind of terrible break up at one time or another. I tend to think that maybe she grew up poor or abused, and wanted to get herself a better life, but took it too far when she ran out of ideas...and started stealing stuff.

    I like her and want her to continue as a character . Besides... Knuckles needs a girl!

Edited September 7, 2013 by knucklesgirl

[Neon The Hedgehog]

         I think Sega has made it clear that they wont be using the other characters as much for the main games any time soon. Unless if its for sports or race car games, Sega is mainly focusing on Sonic now. Which some fans are happy about but some are not. But I guess in some ways it is good that they are trying to give Sonic himself a reboot. It keeps the story fresh and alive. I mean, we all sort of knew it was coming. This is not the first time that Sonic gaming has been changed ( Like when Classic Sonic evolved into Modern Sonic! Which is a bad Pokemon joke but you guys get my drift). 

         I know some of the characters are unnecessary in the games, but there are things they can do that Sonic can't. I kind of miss gliding through the air as knuckles or flying like tails. I'm not asking for another 06 game since that did not go over too well with the fans. I more miss playing as some of the other characters. No one needs to agree with me. This is just my personal opinion.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Neon The Hedgehog