Sonic the hedgehog 4 - previews, interviews, and impressions topic

[Komodin]

Beat it, hate it, not playing it again until I can dick around in the online co-op mode.

Back to Generations.

I'm probably gonna regret asking this, but how does it compare to Sonic Generations (either version)?

[Indigo Rush]

I'm probably gonna regret asking this, but how does it compare to Sonic Generations (either version)?

Sonic Generations as a whole had more deliberation and love put into it.

The level design is better in Sonic Generations.

The music and graphics are better in Sonic Generations.

Sonic Generations has the better gameplay.

etc etc

These are justifiable enough for Dissident to dislike Sonic 4: EPII. He gave it a shot and I respect his choice. This doesn't mean you're "accepting mediocrity" for liking EPII, though. It's fun in its own right, and that's what matters.

That being said, I personally love EPII, just as much as I love Generations.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Indigo Rush

[Sami]

I'm probably gonna regret asking this, but how does it compare to Sonic Generations (either version)?

It isn't as awful as the 3DS game, but it doesn't hold a candle to the actual Sonic Generations.

Think of everything a game could possibly do. Everything. I guarantee that almost anything you can think of, Generations will have done better.

Visuals? Infinitely better in Generations.

Music? Infinitely better in Generations.

Bosses? Infinitely better in Generations.

Level design? Infinitely better in Generations.

Gameplay? Infinitely better in Generations.

Oh, and regarding the one thing people say Episode 2 trumps Generations in (the physics), I have this to say:

Generations had a slightly inferior physics engine, yes. But you know what it did? It utilized it to its full potential and had some absolutely fantastic level design that took advantage of everything the physics allowed. Sonic 4? yeah, it's got better physics, but it's barely even noticeable. The level design just doesn't allow you to have any sort of fun with the physics; you're almost constantly being FWOOSHed or BOINGed or PFSHIIINGed forward, and the game is just horrendously boring as a result.

[Blue Blood]

S1-K: Rolls-Down-Hills the Hedgehog

Generations: Bounces-On-Things the Hedgehog

Although the level design differs in style, both are physics based and give some great thrills.

S4: Hits-The-Booster the Hedgehog

A third type of level design, this time it's just plain naff. Apart from Sylvania Castle Act 2 and 3. Those stages have some unneccessary boosters and springs, but fuck they're still very nicely laid out.

[Indigo Rush]

One other point I wanna make is that I think Generations and Sonic 4: EPII both had the same amount of love and effort put into them, as evidenced by the improvements that were made. However, what Generations had that Sonic 4 in its entirety didn't have was deliberation.

What I mean by that is that Sonic Generations knew exactly what it was going to be. It was going to be for the fans, a celebration detailing all of Sonic's past games in a fun and epic package for the 20th anniversary. It knew what it was going to do, and it set out to accomplish that, mainly through Classic Sonic, who they made sure captured the essence of the Genesis titles in terms of level progression and pacing.

Sonic 4 on the other hand, while slowly gaining its momentum in the realm of effort, still lacked intent. I'm convinced that Sonic Team didn't really know what they wanted to do with Sonic 4 beyond making a 2D Sonic game for download. Because of that, I think the focus of making it like the classics was not even around until later on, and even then, they didn't have a good idea for where they wanted to go with that. I know Sonic Team isn't dumb: they made Sonic Generations and while the physics and spin-attack were off the mark, they achieved the kind of platforming gold that the originals had.

...Sonic 4 more or less set out to do its own thing, which while I admit I find to be fun in its own right, just simply isn't classic Sonic. Sure, the sound effects and even the physics and handling indicate that it's a classic Sonic game, but even with all of that, they still couldn't be bothered to set the level flow in the tone of the original Genesis games. Iizuka set out to give the game a different kind of flow and pacing with a ton of speed boosters and springs everywhere, as well as bottomless pits out the wazoo. The originals never did this, and because of that it lost the core of the gameplay in translation, and despite their honest efforts to make a good game, they're going about it the wrong way.

So... I still think Sonic 4 has effort and love being put into it. But I also think the developers have no idea what they're doing in terms of level design. The intent and focus is off, and as such the game is suffering over it. At least in my opinion.

Hope that all made sense.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Indigo Rush

[Nintendoga]

So I was just digging through stuff, and then I found out, I'm pyschic

YOU FUCKERS ALL THOUGHT I WAS JOKING WHEN I SAID THIS HUH?

WELL I FOOLED YOU FUCKERS DIDN'T I?

STILL RIGHT

I'm gonna try and hook up a second controller and play around with Tails, he seems like he would make the game a bit better for me, if I could play as him that is.

Geeze, it's like they just made him a hover wisp + Frenzy wisp in this game.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Nintendoga

[Burnt Ash]

One other point I wanna make is that I think Generations and Sonic 4: EPII both had the same amount of love and effort put into them, as evidenced by the improvements that were made. However, what Generations had that Sonic 4 in its entirety didn't have was deliberation.

What I mean by that is that Sonic Generations knew exactly what it was going to be. It was going to be for the fans, a celebration detailing all of Sonic's past games in a fun and epic package for the 20th anniversary. It knew what it was going to do, and it set out to accomplish that, mainly through Classic Sonic, who they made sure captured the essence of the Genesis titles in terms of level progression and pacing.

Sonic 4 on the other hand, while slowly gaining its momentum in the realm of effort, still lacked intent. I'm convinced that Sonic Team didn't really know what they wanted to do with Sonic 4 beyond making a 2D Sonic game for download. Because of that, I think the focus of making it like the classics was not even around until later on, and even then, they didn't have a good idea for where they wanted to go with that. I know Sonic Team isn't dumb: they made Sonic Generations and while the physics and spin-attack were off the mark, they achieved the kind of platforming gold that the originals had.

...Sonic 4 more or less set out to do its own thing, which while I admit I find to be fun in its own right, just simply isn't classic Sonic. Sure, the sound effects and even the physics and handling indicate that it's a classic Sonic game, but even with all of that, they still couldn't be bothered to set the level flow in the tone of the original Genesis games. Iizuka set out to give the game a different kind of flow and pacing with a ton of speed boosters and springs everywhere, as well as bottomless pits out the wazoo. The originals never did this, and because of that it lost the core of the gameplay in translation, and despite their honest efforts to make a good game, they're going about it the wrong way.

So... I still think Sonic 4 has effort and love being put into it. But I also think the developers have no idea what they're doing in terms of level design. The intent and focus is off, and as such the game is suffering over it. At least in my opinion.

Hope that all made sense.

Yeah. It made sense. And you're right, I think.

I've only seen the videos of the gameplay, but I can say that it looks fun to play, although the design choices are questionable. It may not be a 'true' Sonic 4, but I think I may be able to have some fun with it. Besides, if I don't want to be all like FWOOOSH, then well, I'll try my best to avoid the boosters (is that possible..?), just like what I did with Generations when I wanted to make a no Boost run. Basically, I'm probably not going to enjoy it as a Sonic 4, but as a separate Sonic title, sure, why not?

[Blue Blood]

I'll try my best to avoid the boosters (is that possible..?)

Not really. They're all right there in your path. Sure you can learn where to jump to dodge them, but then you're focusing on that instead of playing the levels properly. And some of them are unavoidable *points to six consecutive ones in ODZ1*

[Indigo Rush]

*points to six consecutive ones in ODZ1*

I'm convinced that string of boosters was either result of one of the level designers having a seizure or they were doing it to spite Iizuka's direction. That was just ridiculous. XD

[Your Vest Friend]

So I was just digging through stuff, and then I found out, I'm physic

I think you mean 'psychic'.

Everyone else here should know why physics are different by now.

[Nintendoga]

I'm convinced that string of boosters was either result of one of the level designers having a seizure or they were doing it to spite Iizuka's direction. That was just ridiculous. XD

I'm convinced that was a "TOO MANY BOOSTERS" joke to the fans. There's no way they thought that was good level design. Not even Dimps is that stupid.

I think you mean 'psychic'.

Everyone else here should know why physics are different by now.

Auto-spell! Why u no work for me when I need it!?

[azoo]

I've come to learn how to make this game feel as much like a classic game as possible; which isn't me going out of my way to play the game differently, but how my mind reacted to the gameplay as soon as I picked it up.

Basically, every time I come near a slope, I jump dash, then roll down the hill. Ends up that almost replicates the feeling of rolling down the hill in the classics. And then there's always the "jump dash at the right time to do the not-homing-attack bounce" thing I've been doing since E1..

With me doing all of that (plus with how the game plays standalone), it tends to feel like a classic game with a jump dash, which is actually really fun (and sometimes the homing attack proves itself as fun anyways, when not used repetitiously). But even then, I'm really disappointed in just how many dash panels there are. It, just as in E1, takes away from controlling the game, and is downright unnecessary in many areas.

In fact, why are there so many dashpads by all these quarterpipes? That's just lazy; since in the older games I had to spindash to get up those. It was more challenging, and less automated, and we liked it! grumble grumble

On a slightly related note, if homing chains were used to go to higher routes, and that's what the flying ability does... then why do we still have homing chains?!?!

Edited April 25, 2012 by Azukara

[Milo]

On a slightly related note, if homing chains were used to go to higher routes, and that's what the flying ability does... then why do we still have homing chains?!?!

Because Dimps.

Edited April 25, 2012 by ModernHentaiQuillFan

[ArtFenix]

Think of everything a game could possibly do. Everything. I guarantee that almost anything you can think of, Generations will have done better.

Bosses? Infinitely better in Generations.

I'd say Ep2 has more original bosses design. Oil Ocean, Sylvania Castle and the last boss to some extent look amazing. One of the best boss designs since S06 bosses, Egg Dragoon and Egg Nega Wisp.

[Voyant]

I enjoy the game...not as good as Generations mind you...but its Dimps best effort in a game yet.

I agree with Blue Blood though. I think this is Dimps peak here...and I think they should be discarded and replaced...

I'd say Ep2 has more original bosses design. Oil Ocean, Sylvania Castle and the last boss to some extent look amazing. One of the best boss designs since S06 bosses, Egg Dragoon and Egg Nega Wisp.

Oil Ocean's boss is one of the best bosses in the franchise. More boss battles should be like that...was very intense and well paced.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Double

[Blue Blood]

I'd say Ep2 has more original bosses design. Oil Ocean, Sylvania Castle and the last boss to some extent look amazing. One of the best boss designs since S06 bosses, Egg Dragoon and Egg Nega Wisp.

Have you seen videos of the Sylvania Castle boss? It's really rubbish. The Final Boss is very cool looking, but I can't help but feel let down by its lack of attacks. The Oil Desert Boss though is brilliant!

[Octarine]

Can Dimps just do bosses from now on or something? I can't speak for how much fun Episode II's actually are, but they at least look fairly creative, and if there's one thing this series' bosses need desperately right now it's variety. They've done good work with bosses before, too: Rush's were mostly boring and the Advance games' were hit or miss, admittedly, but Rush Adventure had quite possibly the best bosses in the series. There's some talent there.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Octarine

[ArtFenix]

Have you seen videos of the Sylvania Castle boss? It's really rubbish. The Final Boss is very cool looking, but I can't help but feel let down by its lack of attacks. The Oil Desert Boss though is brilliant!

I've seen it all. Yes, it's very easy, but I wasn't talking about the fight itself. I was talking about the DESIGN of the bosses and so my point still stands.

[Blue Blood]

I've seen it all. Yes, it's very easy, but I wasn't talking about the fight itself. I was talking about the DESIGN of the bosses and so my point still stands.

The design of the boss couldn't really matter much less. And you can't compare design originality to Generations, since the whole point of Generations was to be unoriginal.

[Marcello]

What I didn't like about Rush Adventures bosses were that they had healthbars instead of a certain amount of hits.

[ArtFenix]

The design of the boss couldn't really matter much less. And you can't compare design originality to Generations, since the whole point of Generations was to be unoriginal.

But I DID say that I think it's the best design since S06 and Unleashed (and Egg Nega Wisp) didn't I? Generations doesn't have anything to do with that actually. There was Colors with awful bosses design and in Unleashed just a couple were good and others were just copying each other. And speaking of 2D games I do think Ep2 has the best bosses design since Sonic rush. (I didn't like almost any bosses design from rush advenure except that of the Big Swell).

And how can you say it doesn't matter? It definitely does. Level design in a game does matter and so does the bosses design. Maybe not so much, but it does. AT least for me.

Edited April 25, 2012 by ArtFenix

[Kuzu]

Wait are we comparing Classic Sonic's bosses from Generations or all of them? If so, we can't considering Classic only gets two one of them being easy and pretty boring.

If I had to judge, Episode II wins just for having more bosses at least, the only boss I think sucked was the first one; the others at least look fun to play.

[frokenok3]

I think Ep 2 first boss takes more effort than half first bosses in the franchise.

[Djawed]

Well i've just been playing the game myself, and gotta say that the game gives me the exact same feeling as episode 1 did. Basically it's just your usual average sonic game you wanna finish as a fan. No surprises, no smiles, just very basic. And the physics are a tad improved which feels great, but still not giving that real satisfaction the originals did.

So... I guess we go on to the next one

Edited April 25, 2012 by Djawed

[JezMM]

What I didn't like about Rush Adventures bosses were that they had healthbars instead of a certain amount of hits.

On the flipside though I do like that bosses that can be attacked frequently tend to lend themselves really nicely to repeated plays and speedruns.

Sonic 4 Ep 2's bosses are long. You can do em perfectly but they're still long because you have to wait for openings, and every time a new phase starts it's done with great fanfare. If you mess up a chance to hit they're just even longer. I hope to god there's a cut-scene skip button in the final game. Every boss except White Park's takes a good 60 seconds from the start of the act until you're actually fighting them, and that's 60 seconds you have to sit through every time you fail as well.