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Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed...!


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hey, what about having Shadow and Rouge in the same car, not to sacrifice one slot?

hey that might put rouge's wings to good use, though i would really love to see rouges SA2 car, it was so beautiful!

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Screw that noise. I like Rouge but I detest Shadow. Having them in the same car would be pointless and stupid. I shouldn't be forced to play a character I hate to play a character I like. Why would they even be in the same car together? Why not have Sonic and Amy in the same car then?

I really don't like where you guys are taking this, this game really shouldn't have any shipping in it.

It'd be much better if everyone had their own car.

Edited by PsychoJosh
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What? Why shouldn't someone use their own preferences when saying who they want in the game? That's just nonsense.
The way you worded it just last post kinda implied you were trying to debate that on an objective merit rather than in your personal opinion, but if you wanna keep thinking what you wanna think I'm not really obliged to change that. Just bear in mind opinion isn't really a good way to make representation decisions if you expect more than one person to play the game - especially concerning two sets of characters that are both in varying states of notoriety.

When people think of the Rogues they think of the shitty racing trilogy that was part of taking down the Sonic franchise's popularity.
...it's a spinoff. I seriously doubt it had any more of a part in damaging the franchise's reputation than Shadow and Sonic '06 ever did.

I'd also like to add at this stage that I really hate how you're defining some sort of arbitary "base worth" as a standard for ASR roles when it's never been that clearly cut - if it was, we never would've gotten Big to begin with. Hell, not even just Big, ASR1 already had some really obscure stuff that not a whole lot of people would've recognised. Like, who the fuck is Zobiko, anyway? Opa Opa? The fuckin' Bonanza Bros? Is it a bad thing that they're around?

Now where were we... oh, we're talking about Shadow and Rouge now. Well, as much as I like the idea of tying multiple characters to a vehicle to reflect the three-tier transformation mechanic, I really can't see Shadow and Rouge working that well with each other - for one thing, you can't really design a vehicle that matches both character's styles without it turning out like an inconsistent mess, especially considering they're both on literal opposite ends of the colour spectrum. Shadow's already driven vehicles that work on land, sea and air in all the games that feature them (ShTH and '06, though personally I feel '06's vehicles are a lot less generic looking), so once you get a few transformations themed around them that works out pretty well for him. Rouge on the other hand... well honestly I'd just be glad to see her at all at this stage. She basically got forgotten after '06 and for the life of me I don't really understand why. Plus her car in SA2 was pretty fucking swanky - I certaintly wouldn't mind seeing a plane like that.

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I'd also like to add at this stage that I really hate how you're defining some sort of arbitary "base worth" as a standard for ASR roles when it's never been that clearly cut - if it was, we never would've gotten Big to begin with. Hell, not even just Big, ASR1 already had some really obscure stuff that not a whole lot of people would've recognised. Like, who the fuck is Zobiko, anyway? Opa Opa? The fuckin' Bonanza Bros? Is it a bad thing that they're around?

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Zobiko is from House of the Dead EX. Opa Opa is from Fantasy Zone which is one of Sega's most iconic arcade titles.
I knew that. I'm not sure why you're implying I didn't - this isn't about just me, after all.

Their inclusions are meant for the most devoted Sega fans
Which ultimately is just a nicer way of saying they're part of a niche, borderline cult fandom. Hey, kinda like Big and the Rouges are! Fancy that! That was the entire point I was just making!

, which you clearly are not, so I'd suggest just passing on this game and taking your godawful Rogues with you.
You know, that attidude is completely uncalled for, and you're not about to be taken any more seriously by lowering yourself to petty remarks like that. Edited by The Cheese
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Which ultimately is just a nicer way of saying they're part of a niche, borderline cult fandom.

Except they're not. Everyone who's a fan of Sega and not just a Sonic fanboy knows who they are. Furthermore those characters are extremely popular in Japan. They're hardly "niche".

You know, that attidude is completely uncalled for, and you're not about to be taken any more seriously by lowering yourself to petty remarks like that.

I'm sorry. I don't see where I called you a name, though.

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Except they're not. Everyone who's a fan of Sega and not just a Sonic fanboy knows who they are. Furthermore those characters are extremely popular in Japan. They're hardly "niche".

I'm sorry. I don't see where I called you a name, though.

He didn't say you called him names. Where does it say that? He just says he dislikes the rude remarks you were saying to him. And the shut up was also uncalled for.
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He didn't say you called him names. Where does it say that? He just says he dislikes the rude remarks you were saying to him. And the shut up was also uncalled for.

Oh I saw it before the edit. He said I was namecalling.

I apologize, I got a little riled up.

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Except they're not. Everyone who's a fan of Sega and not just a Sonic fanboy knows who they are.
Being a fan of Sega is hardly as binary as that, I hope you realize. People don't exactly gain instantaneous knowledge of a 20+ year old arcade game just by developing an affection for the developer's works, and you'd still be flat-faced lying if you said stuff like Fantasy Zone and Bonanza Bros isn't among the lesser known of them, especially these days, long after their primetime has passed and virtually all marketing is exclusively Sonic-focused. Which brings me to my next point, incidentally.

Furthermore those characters are extremely popular in Japan.
This would be a fair point in your favour if the ASR series wasn't clearly marketed primarily at Westerners. If it were any other way we'd already be seeing characters that for all intents and purposes would be borderline unknown to the English-speaking crowd. Not that I'd complain personally, but you'd still have a pretty big portion of the crowd scratching their heads and saying "..huh?". Stuff like Fantasy Zone is pretty much the same... just somewhat less so, obviously.

I'm sorry. I don't see where I called you a name, though.
Well, starting a counterargument by straight away telling them to shut up is hardly mature. but seeing as you've calmed down now I won't make a big deal out of it. Just wanted to elaborate on that seeing as you asked nicely. Edited by The Cheese
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Sooo....Anyone else think that the recent release of Alex kidd,Shinobi and some other classic Sega mascots on XBLA and PSN might be because they want to get those characters known before they maybe get into ASRT?

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Alex Kidd was already in the first game, and hell, was pretty much the face of Sega before Sonic came about, so if anything I'd be surprised if he didn't show. Shinobi on the other hand... might not be so lucky. Would be a nice surprise though.

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Being a fan of Sega is hardly as binary as that, I hope you realize. People don't exactly gain instantaneous knowledge of a 20+ year old arcade game just by developing an affection for the developer's works, and you'd still be flat-faced lying if you said stuff like Fantasy Zone and Bonanza Bros isn't among the lesser known of them, especially these days, long after their primetime has passed and virtually all marketing is exclusively Sonic-focused. Which brings me to my next point, incidentally.

I'll give you that Bonanza Bros is really obscure, but Fantasy Zone? Hardly. I'm talking about people who have been fans of Sega since the 80s, which are plentiful in number, more than enough to excuse Opa Opa being in this game. Being a fan of Sega is hardly as binary as being a new Sega fan or not being a Sega fan at all.

This would be a fair point in your favour if the ASR series wasn't clearly marketed primarily at Westerners. If it were any other way we'd already be seeing characters that for all intents and purposes would be borderline unknown to the English-speaking crowd. Not that I'd complain personally, but you'd still have a pretty big portion of the crowd scratching their heads and saying "..huh?". Stuff like Fantasy Zone is pretty much the same... just somewhat less so, obviously.

I'm pretty sure ASR is marketed at everybody, not just Westerners. Zobio and Zobiko are DEFINITELY unknown to the English-speaking crowd in addition to characters like Opa Opa, which defeats your argument. The game did have a western focus, but only a very slight one.

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I'll give you that Bonanza Bros is really obscure, but Fantasy Zone? Hardly. I'm talking about people who have been fans of Sega since the 80s, which are plentiful in number, more than enough to excuse Opa Opa being in this game. Being a fan of Sega is hardly as binary as being a new Sega fan or not being a Sega fan at all.
Right! So if we follow this line of reasoning, it's unreasonable to suggest excluding characters on the basis of obscurity, or at least obscurity relative to today anyway.

...so uh, why doesn't this logic apply to the Rouges again? You know, besides your personal feelings for the characters?

Edited by The Cheese
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Was about to go bananas on you, but I'm glad you apologized and Mr. The Cheese seems to be ok with it, so just think before you hit enter next time alright?

IDK what the argument is really, but I love Opa-Opa with all my heart, that is all, <3.

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Right! So if we follow this line of reasoning, it's unreasonable to suggest excluding characters on the basis of obscurity, or at least obscurity relative to today anyway.

...so uh, why doesn't this logic apply to the Rouges again?

As I've already pointed out, the Sonic roster selection seems to work on entirely different grounds to the non-Sonic selection. While the general SEGA cast work purely on being a love letter to SEGA as a whole, ranging from the recent hits to old hidden gems, Sonic is being used as a major selling point, thus in their case they're going for the popular and non-obscure characters. Even a joke, Big isn't exactly obscure.

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...so uh, why doesn't this logic apply to the Rouges again? You know, besides your personal feelings for the characters?

I never said the Rogues should be forgotten because they're obscure, I said they should be forgotten because they're terrible, which is compounded by the fact that they have only appeared games that were both critical and commercial failures. They have not contributed anything of value to Sonic or Sega.

The same can't be said for Big the Cat because Big was never a big player in the games anyways, he's just an amusing side character. The Rogues manifested as main characters and became the face of an almost universally reviled spinoff series.

The thing is, I don't expect Big the Cat to make it in the game. I like him but I do know he's a heavily stigmatized character. I'm not shedding any tears over the fact that he may not be in. On the other hand, you and most other BR fanboys seem to be entitled to the idea that the Rogues should be in the game at all costs and demand to see all three of them for any given crap reason, like because they're "relevant" to the game's genre. Hell, one guy on youtube told me that he wants to see Jet because "he's green". You seem to refuse to accept that they're not very well-liked by most people.

Edited by PsychoJosh
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I never said the Rogues should be forgotten because they're obscure, I said they should be forgotten because they're terrible
So now we're back to the opinion card again. Fantastic. Care to say something about that in an objective tone for a change?

which is compounded by the fact that they have only appeared games that were both critical and commercial failures. They have not contributed anything of value to Sonic or Sega.

The same can't be said for Big the Cat because Big was never a big player in the games anyways, he's just an amusing side character. The Rogues manifested as main characters and became the face of an almost universally reviled spinoff series.

Umm, wait a minute.

The Rogues manifested as main characters and became the face of an almost universally reviled spinoff series.
You're implying that characters that have only appeared in spinoff games... are somehow part of the main cast. Er, no, those two words don't belong in the same sentence. They did their own thing and had no obligation to do otherwise - that's all there is to it. The only thing that really makes Big any different in that regard is that he had the courtesy not to poison more than one main game with a Big Lipped Alligator Moment of a genre change.

The thing is, I don't expect Big the Cat to make it in the game. I like him but I do know he's a heavily stigmatized character. I'm not shedding any tears over the fact that he may not be in. On the other hand, you and most other BR fanboys seem to be entitled to the idea that the Rogues should be in the game at all costs and demand to see all three of them for any given crap reason, like because they're "relevant" to the game's genre. Hell, one guy on youtube told me that he wants to see Jet because "he's green". You seem to refuse to accept that they're not very well-liked by most people.
I hope you're not lumping me in with that same group, because I'll have you know I have said no such thing. Hell, most of this argument was not so much for the want of the characters making it in so much as exposing this ridiculous double standard you seem to have against them in the wake of other characters that really deserve no better.

There's similarities between Riders and Transformed, yes, that I did say, and it would bridge a lot of the groundwork towards a playable addition, yes, I did say that too. But I don't exactly appreciate you putting words in my mouth like that otherwise - my persistence may be a little off-putting, but I hardly said anything along the lines of "OMFG THE BABYLON ROUGES NEED TO BE IN THIS GAME BY BIRTHRIGHT OR IM'A STAB A HO" at any point.

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The way you worded it just last post kinda implied you were trying to debate that on an objective merit rather than in your personal opinion, but if you wanna keep thinking what you wanna think I'm not really obliged to change that. Just bear in mind opinion isn't really a good way to make representation decisions if you expect more than one person to play the game - especially concerning two sets of characters that are both in varying states of notoriety.

I'll stick to saying I want the characters I like in, instead of hoping for characters I hate, but others like, just so they're happy.

...it's a spinoff. I seriously doubt it had any more of a part in damaging the franchise's reputation than Shadow and Sonic '06 ever did.

It did just as much. Hence why I said "Took part" and not "Was the sole reason". It doesn't matter if it's a spin-off or not. You'd have to be kidding yourself if you don't think it did just as much to ruin Sonic's reputation.

I'd also like to add at this stage that I really hate how you're defining some sort of arbitary "base worth" as a standard for ASR roles when it's never been that clearly cut - if it was, we never would've gotten Big to begin with. Hell, not even just Big, ASR1 already had some really obscure stuff that not a whole lot of people would've recognised. Like, who the fuck is Zobiko, anyway? Opa Opa? The fuckin' Bonanza Bros? Is it a bad thing that they're around?

Are you high? The person arguing base worth is you, saying them coming out of a racing game make them more likely and makes more sense than the "joke character" Big. Which is complete bullshit. The only thing I'm arguing is that the Rogues are shitty characters and shouldn't be in because of that, while Big should be, because he's a fun character.

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So now we're back to the opinion card again. Fantastic. Care to say something about that in an objective tone for a change?

Okay, the Babylon Rogues are physical garbage.

You're not getting me here. I never claimed to be doing anything but voicing my subjective opinion on the characters. I was merely correcting your mistaken insinuation. You were implying that I said they shouldn't be in because they're obscure, when I was always saying they shouldn't be in because I personally believe they're terrible characters and not popular in any sense of the word. As the face of the Sonic Riders series, they represent poor quality and bad choices made in the Sonic franchise. I am far from alone in having this opinion.

Big is, at worst, completely inoffensive. Even his worst detractors don't really care that much if he's in the game or not. The same cannot be said of the Rogues and their cocky, brash EXTREME SPORTS attitude. The amount of people who'd take nicely to such characters are infinitesimally small in number. And say what you will about characters like Opa Opa and the zombie couple, at least they're popular in certain regions like Japan and appreciated by longtime fans. If the Babylon Rogues have a "cult" following then it must be "cult" everywhere because I haven't seen signs of their popularity anywhere.

You're implying that characters that have only appeared in spinoff games... are somehow part of the main cast.

I said no such thing at all. I said that they're treated as main characters in the games they're in. Big has never appeared in anything more than an utterly minor role even in the few games he was playable in.

Edited by PsychoJosh
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Okay, you know what, this is ridiculous. There's a massive amount of misconstrument happening on both sides, and all I'm really getting in return for the most part is either "I don't personally like this character", or things that other accepted characters are equally guilty of. I think it's better that I just drop this whole stupid shit right now before this goes around in circles or devolves into a blatant flamefest again.

Funny thing is, I can already tell someone will just kick this post while it's down anyway.

It did just as much. Hence why I said "Took part" and not "Was the sole reason". It doesn't matter if it's a spin-off or not. You'd have to be kidding yourself if you don't think it did just as much to ruin Sonic's reputation.
People consider Sonic's reputation ruined if he so much as rolls down a hill in anything other than a very specific way, so that's not saying much. Chalk it up to the fanbase's excessive paranoia of change more than anything else, I say. Edited by The Cheese
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Okay, you know what, this is ridiculous. There's a massive amount of misconstrument happening on both sides, and all I'm really getting in return for the most part is either "I don't personally like this character", or things that other accepted characters are equally guilty of. I think

Please read my post in its entirety.

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I think it's better that I just drop this whole stupid shit right now before this goes around in circles or devolves into a blatant flamefest again.
Likewise. dry.png
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*And suddenly SUMO reveals that All the Sonic characters that will be in the game are already revealed...

Joking

Edited by BlueHedgehog92
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*And suddenly SUMO reveals that All the Sonic characters that will be in the game are already revealed...

SWEET! That means there's 20-22 Sega characters!

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This new engine that the game is running on...is it more mod-friendly than the Sunshine engine?

Not really.

Edited by SumoRex
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