All-Stars Racing Transformed: The Racer Roster Thread

[PsychoJosh]

A banned online uber character would affect the balance or longevity of the game in any way. It just a fun little bonus for the people who earn it. Its no different from 99% of sports games out there that let you make custom teams with players having 99 in every stat. Nobody with any skill would take one of those custom teams seriously in a competitive sense, but sometimes its just fun to watch your freak of nature athlete do a windmill-360 from the 3 point line. Its just there if you want it.

I already addressed this point, and furthermore those yearly sports games are not competitive games. They're not intended for such, instead being for players who will never commit themselves to learning the game and finding out ways to use the mechanics themselves to their advantage. They're just annual branded products, no different from ballcaps or team jerseys, designed with the sole purpose of selling a brand and not much else. They do not intend for such games to have ANY longevity, in fact they deliberately keep them as cheap and broken as possible so people will buy the next one, which is why they have completely broken team customization options. You're saying an uber character wouldn't affect the longevity of a game and then go on to use an example of a game where EXACTLY THAT happens? That's what I'd call counter-productive to your argument.

Furthermore it provides an excellent local play challenge opportunity. I play ASR all the time with my younger cousins. Thanks to the skill gap, I basically have to drive backwards to make it even remotely challenging. Spotting them an uber would make for something that much more fun. I'd welcome a crush character on those grounds alone.

Or they could just, you know, learn how to play the game correctly? Hand-holding is one of the worst trends in gaming today and it needs to stop. It makes it so that people stay ignorant and don't figure out anything for themselves. An uber character would be doubly harmful to the game because A) it lets poor players eke out a cheap, undeserved victory and B] good players would use this character and be unbeatable.

You think being a game that rewards skill makes it "boring and lopsided"? Fine, go play Mario Kart Wii and have a blast getting fucked over by blue shells, lightning bolts and other random crap all the time. It's great that you think that factors other than skill need to be the determining factor for whether a game is fun or not, just don't taint this game with it. This is finally a game that looks to be a rewarding skill-based racer that everyone can enjoy and you're asking to screw that all up. It will STOP BEING THAT once it gets an uber character.

The best moments in competitive play are when you take on the god tier and win. I shouldn't need to tell you guys that. Back when Melee was everywhere, those victories against Fox meant something. (christ he was nasty)

Don't just fragment my paragraph. You need to read the entirety of the post you quoted before saying this. And I think other pro-uber posters would do well to read it also.

The entire point of having an extremely fanservicey character like [segata Sanshiro] in the game is so that PEOPLE CAN USE HIM. If he's barred from being used online or in time trials because he's too good then the only way you'd be able to use him is in offline grand prix mode which would be terrible for everybody who considers themselves a fan of his. There would be tears from fanboys who wish they could use their favorite character online but can't because, even though he's in the game, he is too broken to be fair for the other players. No. Wrong.

Edited August 7, 2012 by PsychoJosh

[ProfessorZolo]

WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF HAVING HIM?!!

Simple- he'd be a boss character, not a regular racer.

[PsychoJosh]

Simple- he'd be a boss character, not a regular racer.

Edited August 7, 2012 by PsychoJosh

[Lady Soniko]

yeah, Didn't S0L say there was no story mode? so i doubt boss racers will be in either.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Super Soniko

[Xenos]

You think being a game that rewards skill makes it "boring and lopsided"? Fine, go play Mario Kart Wii and have a blast getting fucked over by blue shells, lightning bolts and other random crap all the time. It's great that you think luck needs to be the determining factor for whether a game is fun or not,

Yeah, thanks for putting words into my fucking mouth buddy.

All I'm saying it is it would be okay to have it for players that are inexperienced with the game playing against others who have far more experience with them, it would give them a chance to ease their way into the game and it'd give the experienced player a challenge.

As far as I know on my end, I'd just let them use it their first few races to ease into things and then proceed to teach them the game properly. Better yet, how about there was an Option to turn off the uber racer completely?

Can we stop with the "Is it hurting you?" argument? It's stupid.

Stupid how, exactly? Because if something is bothering you so bad it's going to ruin the game for you when it's optional in it's entirety...that sounds stupid to me.

[PsychoJosh]

All I'm saying it is it would be okay to have it for players that are inexperienced with the game playing against others who have far more experience with them, it would give them a chance to ease their way into the game and it'd give the experienced player a challenge.

No, it wouldn't be okay. There shouldn't be ANY hand holding. Let the players learn how to play the game properly instead of relying on uber characters, and if they don't want to, they can go play something else. There's no point in becoming an "experienced player" if you can just rely on the same god-character all the time and win 90% of the time.

As far as I know on my end, I'd just let them use it their first few races to ease into things and then proceed to teach them the game properly.

Yeah, they won't use it that way. They'll just keep using that racer all the time. What's the point of putting effort into balancing a game if you're just going to shove in a character that undermines all that effort and just ruins the game for everyone?

Better yet, how about there was an Option to turn off the uber racer completely?

There is such an option, it's called "NOT PUTTING AN UBER RACER IN THE GAME AT ALL".

Stupid how, exactly? Because if something is bothering you so bad it's going to ruin the game for you when it's optional in it's entirety...that sounds stupid to me.

You're missing the point. The people against an uber racer aren't against it because THEY can choose it and win. They're against it because OTHER people can choose it and win.

Let's say these people who are against an uber racer, actively avoid choosing the uber racer. That's not going to stop other people from picking it and thus ruining the game for the players who chose not to. There's plenty of griefers both online and offline who will gladly take advantage of a broken character. I highly doubt many people are going to just ignore a character whose stats basically make him a win button. Not everyone is as "honorable" as you are. They're not just going to go, "oh, my ancient bushido code prevents me from choosing the best character available".

Edited August 7, 2012 by PsychoJosh

[Marcello]

Stupid how, exactly? Because if something is bothering you so bad it's going to ruin the game for you when it's optional in it's entirety...that sounds stupid to me.

Because you can say it about anything. You might as well just not discuss things.

And honestly, I think a completely über character does hurt the game's balance. Being able to decide on whether you choose the character or not is irrelevant. If a character is there, I should be able to chose it without worrying about tipping the balance.

[Lady Soniko]

the game doesn't need an uber character, i've played it and its fast and frantic as is with balanced racer's, adding a god tier character would turn it into a god awful train wreck.

[PsychoJosh]

"GRR I hate Shadow! He's such a broken character and he's basically unbeatable!"

*ASR sequel gets announced*

"You know what this game needs? A broken character that's basically unbeatable!"

[Xenos]

Alright, alright...I see your point.

I'm not gonna win this argument so I'm gonna quit before I'm even more behind.

So uh...change of subject..?

[Your Vest Friend]

i too don't like the idea of a god tier character, but then again thinking back to Crash Team Racing, the boss racers where like god tier compared to you, overwhelming attack barrages, faster karts, taking the short cuts etc. but they where still beatable... to be honest a god tier racer doesn't mean they'll be unbeatable, just like Ryo was pretty slow in terms of speed to Shadow and other racers in ASR but i still won every online racer with him. It's not about the racer, it's about how good the player is!

CTR is a pretty bad example when it comes to playable boss characters. In Story Mode? They were tougher, but never God Tier (the AI was so predictable in terms of drive path) except for perhaps Oxide who was never meant to be playable, and then when you unlocked them they had normal stats for their given kart category. The only character with max stats was Penta in the PAL version...but that didn't make him God tier either, because the mechanics meant that Advance class was best with higher turning stats actually being a hindrance.

Edited August 7, 2012 by VEDJ-F

[Lady Soniko]

CTR is a pretty bad example when it comes to playable boss characters. In Story Mode? They were tougher, but never God Tier (the AI was so predictable in terms of drive path) except for perhaps Oxide who was never meant to be playable, and then when you unlocked them they had normal stats for their given kart category. The only character with max stats was Penta in the PAL version...but that didn't make him God tier either, because the mechanics meant that Advance class was best with higher turning stats actually being a hindrance.

Nitros Oxide? overall much faster, tougher the only way to beat him is to get in front of him, and play flawlessly and use Oxide Station's many boosters, he was never a playable character either WITHOUT action replay at least.

[Your Vest Friend]

...Uh...I said that.

[Lady Soniko]

that's mainly who i meant, i should of been more specific sorry n__n;

[FourCartridge]

So uh...change of subject..?

I heard something about mods that change stuff. How do you think they'll work?

[Jango]

I heard something about mods that change stuff. How do you think they'll work?

Oh yeah, that. I guess they will be like, err... tuning? And will probaly change the racer's stats depending of the moded part. I just hope that all the racers in online play are set to the standard stats always, I hate stats/rank based online games.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Jango

[Lady Soniko]

the Mods are clearly for turning Sonic's koenigsegg into a Bugatti Veyron.

Yep.

[WarioBone]

Customizable vehicles, eh? Does this mean that we'll be giving NiGHTS and Reala surgery, then?

[Lady Soniko]

^^^ i must admit, i lol'd

[Jango]

Then I can't wait to mod Shadow's GUN Mech into a Big Foot or Flying Dog.

[Sega DogTagz]

I already addressed this point, and furthermore those yearly sports games are not competitive games. They're not intended for such, instead being for players who will never commit themselves to learning the game and finding out ways to use the mechanics themselves to their advantage. They're just annual branded products, no different from ballcaps or team jerseys, designed with the sole purpose of selling a brand and not much else. They do not intend for such games to have ANY longevity, in fact they deliberately keep them as cheap and broken as possible so people will buy the next one, which is why they have completely broken team customization options. You're saying an uber character wouldn't affect the longevity of a game and then go on to use an example of a game where EXACTLY THAT happens? That's what I'd call counter-productive to your argument.

[WarioBone]

Here's an idea: There are vehicle mods, right? Why not make a mod ONLY works in local multiplayer? Every character has access to it, and using it would half the amount of Sega Miles or whatever the shit you're getting this time, but it greatly increases the vehicle's stats in every respect. That way, you could give younger kids the edge, not have to play like your hands are broken, and everyone can have fun.

[Sega DogTagz]

Here's an idea: There are vehicle mods, right? Why not make a mod ONLY works in local multiplayer? Every character has access to it, and using it would half the amount of Sega Miles or whatever the shit you're getting this time, but it greatly increases the vehicle's stats in every respect. That way, you could give younger kids the edge, not have to play like your hands are broken, and everyone can have fun.

Certainly an idea, but we don't know the extent of these mods just yet. I'm sure they will make each racer better but until we understand how substantial of a difference they will make, its hard to quantify the impact.

I mean, are we talking 10% stat improvement, or 50%? That would make a world of difference.

EDIT

Uncharted 2 did something pretty cool by pimping out negative boosters. They were upgrades that made your character weaker, and less effective in exchange for rewarding good play with extra cash. A reverse handicap.

I think that would be pretty cool for ASR too.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[FourCartridge]

Wait... I remember reading about Gareth Wilson being a part of SUMO now after Bizarre faded. He Worked on Blur, something really similar to this game. It had mods too; They were things like "Homing weapons are easier to dodge", "more projectiles to fire" "other cars can't ram you", stuff like that. Same bet to say the mods in Transformed will be alike.

Anyway, I'm against Uber stuff in general. People either tend to hate em because they're OP, They spit in the face of game balance, and honestly, you're better off tweaking the mechanics if less skilled players really need that handicap. About the part that Segata can only fit in as OP... That may be the reason SUMO won't put him in.

[PsychoJosh]

Counter productive? What fantasy world are you living in.

Last time I checked, games like Madden, FIFA, NBA2K ect all feature increasingly deeper online franchise modes as the years go on. Yearly branded titles or not, they are certainly games developed to having their dedicated users jump online and play against the their friends or the best in the world.

In each of those games, there are creation modes that let you mock up unrealistic gods. Does that hurt the experience at all? Of course not. Its simply there.

If you want to make the argument that yearly sports games are not “competitive” then I’m going to call you delusional and point you to over the massive online userbase and yearly competitions. Madden is basically a religion in many areas. You must be joking.

lol

Having a "massive online userbase" is not the sole criteria that determines whether or not a game is competitive. Using that same logic makes a game like FarmVille competitive. I'm not going to launch into a tirade on why EA's yearly sports games are a joke and in no way at all competitive but it basically boils down to the fact that the userbase for these games are comprised almost completely of casuals who buy the product simply because of the Madden/Fifa/NHL brands. These games are meant for college jocks who talk about how good X player was during Y season while drinking beer; the accessibility of its gameplay reflects such. These people do not play the game seriously and instead through the course of gameplay decide their own games to do, such as seeing who can win the most in-game fights in NHL or who gets the first hit that brings out an ambulance in Madden. They do not care about winning.

Even my uncles who are big-time NHL fanatics that play these games every year don't care about playing the game legitimately, whenever they play they just go "try to start a fight, I want to fight". These games do not have the potential for mind games or trickery, and are designed for the lowest common denominator, as such they are not competitive games. You're making the argument that any game with versus multiplayer can be considered competitive and that's just not true.

Its not about playing the game correctly. Some people are just better than others, especially when there is an age gap is involved.

My 12 year old cousin is by no means bad at the game, but as a lifelong gaming veteran myself, he doesn’t stand a ghost of a chance unless I hold back. Spotting him a handicap in turn makes the game that much more competitive for me. When used correctly handicaps are a good thing. And they do not always = handholding.

Furthermore, anyone who puts in the time to unlock an uber character will more than likely have already cleared that ignorance hurdle, so your point there is mute. He/she would already be a fairly accomplished racer anyway. As for good players abusing god tier power, well the beauty of offline multiplayer is that you can reach out and punch someone. If you don’t like what their doing, you can do something about it.

If you're the type of person who'll punch somebody over their actions in a video game, you need psychiatric help. This is not in any way, shape or form a solution to the problem and actually serves to compound your ignorance. Let's say you punch somebody because they're using an uber character, you either weakly punch them, which won't dissuade anybody, or wind up and strongly hit them which will make them angry and pause the game to beat the shit out of you. Yeah, it's clear you put a lot of thought into this "solution" of yours. Either way the problem still exists in the game and you have your own domestic issues to sort out on top of that. Well done.

Also, just because a single player put in the time to unlock an uber character doesn't mean such a character won't be abused to hell by other players.

You're basically arguing for Shadow to be in the game just like he was in the last one .Shadow was an uber character in the last game and everyone hated him. No one had fun racing against him. The only difference is that his uberness wasn't planned for whereas now you're talking about deliberately putting such a character in the game and putting arbitrary restrictions on the modes this character can be used in. If you can't see how such a thing would be pointless and stupid, I feel sorry for you.

It would have no influence on the online community – so the competitive side of the game wouldn’t be affected in the slightest.

You can cry all you want about it not being fair, but you’ve got no foot to stand on if you want to make the argument that a non-online feature is going to wreck the online environment.

When you take ASR-T online, the balance and skill rewarded play would still be there. That’s were its needed and that’s where it can be found. Offline is the domain of casual players, friends and family. Throwing in a wildcard to spice up those matches isn’t a factor to competitiveness or longevity.

What about online casual players? Oh wow, argument destroyed in a single swoop. What's good enough for offline casual players should be good enough for online ones. You either put the character in all of the modes or you put him in none of them. You don't put him in all but two, you don't throw darts at a board with modes taped to it and say "oh he's not gonna be in that mode" on whatever the dart lands on.

Oh, and on that bit about fans of the character being shortchanged for not being able to use the character, let me throw this out there.

If S. San does end up in the game, wouldn’t the bigger insult to his fanbase be for him to not be an uber character? I mean, that’s basically the point of his existence.

I sure HIS fans would be just fine with it.

That's a bullshit excuse. You're arbitrarily screwing his fans over just for your personal lame desire for an uber character, and als you're lumping them together unfairly, not accounting for individual opinions and instead saying that they're all going to have the exact same opinion as yours. Are you really going to tell me that when you see a Sanshiro fan miserable about the fact that he can't use his favorite character online, you're going to say to him "oh well, the game's still better with an uber character"?

Leaving fans forlorn and disappointed just so your cousins can occasionally beat you in a race is something you may be okay with but don't assume that everyone else will be.