How can Sonic sell better?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

They need to start taking risks again, they're so damn apprehensive about having backlash, but its only hurting them in the long run.

Stop. Sucking. and actually make good on your ideas, I mean how hard is it to have an ambitous idea that doesn't go against the context of the series and is developed to its fullest ability? The current games, while incredibly fun in their own right, are really nothing special that hasn't been seen before; Unleashed was a racer with a God of War esc brawling, Colors is 80% generic 2D platforming, and Generations is just a retread at best. notice how almost none of this stands out to the public.

Ratchet & Clank is a third person shooter/platformer hybrid with some quirky weapons(and surprisingly well written stories), Jak & Daxter is a post apocalyptic world on the brink of destruction(in stark contrast to the first game, and its praised for it), and Mario has a legacy of great games on his side.

Not only is Sonic's reputation still sour, his games aren't exactly "appealing" I mean when you look at Sonic, what draws you in? People expect to go fast in a Sonic game, but that's all the last three games have been "Speed, Speed, and more speed" and that gets boring after a while, you want something refreshing; How can I use the level to go fast, what is the best route for me to take, and how can I use Sonic's abilities to do so. Players should be involved in the gameplay, have them think about their next move.

I think Sonic has the potential to be a best seller,; despite his shaky reputation, he does have a legacy almost as big as Mario's and Sega should use that to their advantage. But right now, Sonic is just another platformer that goes fast as far as the public is concerned, and its going to continue unless Sega actually grow some balls and take a chance be it with stories, gameplay, characters, you name it, and not fuck it up.

Well, I hope you guys have a few spare centuries to wait, because the really crappy media and Sonic Team thenselves is not gonna let Sonic be anything except safe.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Enigmatus

[Diogenes]

I don't agree that Generations is bland and lifeless, there's love and effort put into it.

Where?

Unleashed, I could see. There's settings based on all different parts of the world, tons of unique NPCs many with their own little arcs, the freshest look at Sonic's gameplay in years (in spite of the fact that I feel it's bad for the series), and all kinds of little details, collectibles, side missions, etc.

Even Colors had some of the most unique settings in the series and a new take on the storytelling (to questionable effect).

Generations...had a bunch of remixes? It's a bunch of prettied-up old levels with a story thinner than Colors' to string them together. It's not horrible, but it's just sort of...there.

Well, I hope you guys have a few spare centuries to wait, because the really crappy media is not gonna let Sonic be anything except safe.

"The Media" does not make the games. Obviously Sega would be foolish to ignore what people say completely, but in the end they decide what they make.

[Kuzu]

Well, I hope you guys have a few spare centuries to wait, because the really crappy media is not gonna let Sonic be anything except safe.

They need to stop letting the media dictate their actions, because its either: A. We stick with the current style of games, and people just eventually forget about Sonic in general. B. Sega takes a chance, and actually redefine what Sonic is, and the media loves them for it. or C. Sega take a chance, fuck it up, and Sonic will be hated for yet another decade.

[sonfan1984]

I wonder the audience that SEGA is trying to appeal to [mostly the media and non-fans] still went out and brought Colors, Sonic 4 and Generations even when SEGA is trying to make the games as inoffensive as possible (Sonic only, no playable characters, very little story, short cutscenes, etc).

[Kuzu]

I wonder the audience that SEGA is trying to appeal to [mostly the media and non-fans] still went out and brought Colors, Sonic 4 and Generations even when SEGA is trying to make the games as inoffensive as possible (Sonic only, no playable characters, very little story, short cutscenes, etc).

They probably did and just forgot about it. They're getting praise but for all of the wrong reasons; we should not be praising the lack of ambition on Sega's part, we should be criticizing it. There's no reason why anyone can't like the recent string of games and still say "Hey Sega, step it up will you?"

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I know this is kinda off topic, but what exactly would be considered "ambiitious" with Sonics' gameplay? I can't really think of any...

[Solkia]

Put the discs in Gears of War cases.

[Kuzu]

I know this is kinda off topic, but what exactly would be considered "ambiitious" with Sonics' gameplay? I can't really think of any...

Actually implementing a gameplay mechanic beyond a boost button, that's not a cheap tacked on gimmick.

Having other characters beside Sonic as a playable character with diverse, but still fairly similar gameplay.

Less convoluted, yet still interesting stories.

Edited May 12, 2012 by The Batman

[Diogenes]

I know this is kinda off topic, but what exactly would be considered "ambiitious" with Sonics' gameplay? I can't really think of any...

Doing something besides "Superfast Dodgeamatron" with some token platforming thrown in. The funny thing is that Sonic actually started with a really clever mechanic that they basically excised completely over time.

[Komodin]

Actually implementing a gameplay mechanic beyond a boost button.

Having other characters beside Sonic as a playable character.

Interesting stories.

He said "ambitious," mon, not "stuff that's been done before, to questionable effect."

[Jetronic]

Ignore the reviewers, surprise them thinking the title is for them with hidden goodies being for the fans. I mean, you can only play it safe for so long before people tire of that and just move on.

Another thing I want to mention if there's going to be another adventure style title like Unleashed, have something special at the very start of the game. Arcade mode and Adventure mode, Arcade being for those who just want to get through the game and adventure for those that actually like doing the adventuring.

Also the Unleashed hubs were nice.

[Kuzu]

He said "ambitious," mon, not "stuff that's been done before, to questionable effect."

Those ideas were at least ambitious on their part and showed they wanted to do something different, even if most of those ideas were done to a questionable effect. The solution here is don't suck, and try to turn Sonic into something he isn't.

You can still be ambitious without changing what the series stands for.

Edited May 12, 2012 by The Batman

[Diogenes]

but the game really shines with the modern gameplay finally encouraging exploration.

[Voyant]

When did this happen?

Edited May 12, 2012 by Double

[Scar]

Take their time and construct a game from the heart.

They need to spend a good couple years constructing a game with the level of passion and effort and attention to detail as Unleashed, which bar none, was probably Sonic Team's most ambitious entry in terms of sheer magnitude, since the franchise's inception. There was so much to it, so many layers. Everything had its own story to tell, the locations were brought to life beautifully, the art direction was fabulous and the graphics were mouth-watering (save for some framerate problems here and there).

There was so much hype behind Unleashed because it looked at least, like it would be the one to end Sonic's woes after Shadow and '06. The hype was justified, because everything looked and felt so immaculate.

I want that detail again. I want the environment to tell stories. I want the NPC's (should there be any) to have their own little stories. I want the story itself to be built in tandem with the game and be ambitious and well-written, but not outrageously stupid. I want characters to be brought back and character interactions and gameplay to be improved.

These are all general points to just help the games get better, but it can also generate hype. Generations was a bit of a weird one. It generated hype through nostalgia, but its still possible attain huge hype by just showing quality gameplay footage and whatnot.

Then there is the all-important marketing. Market the Sonic games (and other games too) to raise awareness. Doesn't matter how good a game is, if people don't know about it, they won't buy it.

And here we go again...please Dio can we not make this topic a shitstorm. Do you need a hug?

Edited May 12, 2012 by Scar

[Kuzu]

Ok, to kill the whole "exploration" thing. The previous games gave you more options in the levels.

You could either spin dash, spin jump, insta-shield and use those abilities to find different routes, that's what we refer to by exploration, the ability to decide which route we can take in a level.

Generations "exploration" are little more than shortcuts, they're separate paths that are only about 10 seconds long before you're quickly thrown back onto the main path, and not an entirely new path altogether.

Edited May 12, 2012 by The Batman

[Nepenthe]

Me: Sonic games are good, but they're not ambitious enough anymore. They should do some things to shake the gameplay and story up.

Everyone Else: Wot?! Change up what they have going?! Are you mad?! If Sega is ambitious, it'll be Sonic 06 all over again! These things take time!

Topic OP: Hey guys, how can Sonic sell better?

Everyone Else: Sega needs to be more ambitious!

Me: :|.............. *collapse*

On a more serious note, I agree with everyone who says Sonic needs a change-up, in a way. We've been more than ready for another game that is eventful in both the news cycle and actual content, ranging from a change in Sonic's gameplay to simply the reintroduction of playable characters and a story that endeavors to be exciting. It might also help to simply move annual release dates from fall to spring/summer, especially considering there's usually a drought there that's probably ripe for the taking.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Kuzu]

He is right y'know. There is no "exploration" in Generations. However, I'd argue that there never has been "exploration" in any game - even the classics. You didn't have to explore anything, you went through the stage from point A to point B though a number of different routes. I don't consider that exploration, because you're not really deciding where you're going.

So the fact that I can down go either path A, B, or C doesn't count as my decision, someone obviously must have been mind controlling me.

Me: Sonic games are good, but they're not ambitious enough anymore. They should do some things to shake the gameplay and story up.

Everyone Else: Wot?! Change up what they have going?! Are you mad?! If Sega is ambitious, it'll be Sonic 06 all over again! These things take time!

Topic OP: Hey guys, how can Sonic sell better?

Everyone Else: Sega needs to be more ambitious!

Me: :|.............. *collapse*

I don't remember this?

Edited May 12, 2012 by The Batman

[Scar]

On a more serious note, I agree with everyone who says Sonic needs a change-up, in a way. We've been more than ready for another game that is eventful in both the news cycle and actual contact, ranging from a change in Sonic's gameplay to simply the reintroduction of playable characters and a story that endeavors to be eventful. It might also help to simply move annual release dates from fall to spring/summer, especially considering there's usually a drought there that's probably ripe for the taking.

There is that too. Release the game when other big-name titles aren't being released. That way people may buy it on impulse to fill the void that comes just before the release of their fave franchises' latest installments.

Plus, I'd like games for Summer Holidays....y'know, when I can actually play them.

So the fact that I can down go either path A, B, or C doesn't count as my decision, someone obviously must have been mind controlling me.

I was talking about the destination.

You may be choosing a route, but you'll end up in the same place regardless. You're not exploring, you're going where the game designer wanted you to go, along one of the many paths they made for you to use to get there.

Best way to put it, when you're going to work, you could probably take a number of different routes, which you can choose. But the destination itself is not up to you (if you don't want to get fired or in serious shit) and there are only so many routes you can take to get there.

Actual exploration would involve going through unknown locations with no specific location to have to get to. I.e exploring in the forest/jungle/city.

EDIT: REALLY off-topic here.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Scar

[Jetronic]

When did this happen?

3 paths can be taken from here

The top path leads to 2 more paths

The top path again leads to 2 more paths which also leads to another 2 paths

Exploration is fun, I want constant and careful thinking in future titles like this when it comes to level design. Stuff like this is great.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Jetronic

[Jetronic]

Don't forget that hidden little cave on that bottom path! I totally didn't know that was there until I saw it in a playthrough online. How does one go about discovering little things like that in the levels? Oh, right. By exploring. There's definitely opportunities for exploration in this game, with some levels offering it more than others. But like it was already stated... more of this in future games, please.

The hidden cave is the third path I speak of

Probably should have highlighted it better, like this

[Diogenes]

I was talking about the destination.

I would think exploration is defined more by the journey than the destination.

3 paths can be taken from here

The top path leads to 2 more paths

The top path again leads to 2 more paths which also leads to another 2 paths

I'm not entirely sure that spotting the stunningly obvious counts as exploration.

[Old dead account]

Obviously Sonic Adventure 3 is the only way. *derp*

i'd be a bit more careful and detailedwhen asking Sega to take risks, because I don't want those risks to turn into more drastically different gameplay genre roulette again. I'd appreciate a more in depth story as well even if it is dark, better than lifeless at least. Increase the difficulty as well, I found it hilarious that Sonic said that no adventure is fun if it's too easy in an incredibly easy game. Bottomless pits would be a good start I'm not saying spam them everywhere, I'm just saying put them in places where they're a hazard, but not completely unavoidable it you haven't memorized the level yet like they were in so many parts of unleashed. Also, Sonic seems to sell well on Wii so WiiU might be a good console to with, at least it's HD...

[Nepenthe]

Don't forget that hidden little cave on that bottom path!

There's a cave in Seaside Hill? Wow; learn something new everyday. That level is so huge though that it's almost daunting to go around and try and find everything. Plus death water.

I don't remember this?

Oh, I remember a-plenty. I feel like this is the general context of the conversation whenever I enter into a topic involving Sonic's future, especially topics focused on the story and/or characters. I say we need a better story and more character development, as well as for playable characters to become the norm again, and the usual rebuttals from various people are:

"Sonic doesn't work with a good or serious story, so there is no point in asking for better than what we have."

"Alternate characters take time away from development to implement, and everything needs to be focused on Sonic's gameplay."

"How can you think of asking for other characters when Sega needs Sonic needs to be perfect first? Once Sonic is perfect, Tails et. al can come in."

"If we add characters, it takes away from Sonic's screentime, which is bad because the series is called Sonic The Hedgehog"

or as I've said here, "If Sega is allowed to go in the opposite direction, they will make the mistakes they made in the Adventure era, ergo we should stay the course."

It's quite annoying.

[KrazyBean]

Don't forget that hidden little cave on that bottom path! I totally didn't know that was there until I saw it in a playthrough online. How does one go about discovering little things like that in the levels? Oh, right. By exploring. There's definitely opportunities for exploration in this game, with some levels offering it more than others. But like it was already stated... more of this in future games, please.

And ditch the 2D Sections as well...and it'll be all good.

Make better games.

OHHHH SNAP

Obviously Sonic Adventure 3 is the only way. *derp*

...*shivers*

Edited May 12, 2012 by KrazyBean14