What character is in most need of character developement?

[Sonu23]

Shadow and Rouge I think, because they actually have the character development prior to now but it's comes off as inconsistant and lacking.

Shadow could use a bit more meaniful dynamics with characters beyond his team plus some typical jerkass/classy bastard tendencies he had in SA2. I actually miss his angst, unlike Sonic and others, Shadow was generally a tragically driven character who broke the mold for character range and believe Shadow's apathy is just as much a staple as Sonic's fun personality and Knuckles temper. Make his character more fitted into a context in the games plot where he actually fits, a little bit of action, suspense, seriousness, and badassery are Shadow's comfort Zone. His rivalry with Sonic needs to be defined to, unlike Metal and Knuckles, Shadow takes Sonic to his limits if need be. I like to see a bit more intereaction between the two since they just fight for no reason or team up at the last minute, thier personalites should clash to a point where they both settle things for bigger stakes. It makes it more intense than vs. Knuckles in my opinion.

Rouge on the other hand needs a complete rewrite of her character, here we have is a womanly suductress who has no worthy feets of being on Blazes level. I hoped she be the Black Widow of Sonic. But she's just the sidekick to Team Dark. Her little love story with Knuckles and Shadow somewhat needs to go, making use of her charm towards men to get what she wants is a perfect staple of the spy. But more importantly, her competance as a fighter, being rescued is Amy's thing not a goverment agent like rouge. I guess anthromorphic bat who's GUN's top spy needs to be swepted off her feet by the over powerful, masculine male characters. It's not the fact her being a female restricts her from being a challenge towards the big boys(Other wise we woudn't have Blaze) it's the facr she's way to feminine to be a threat, her seductress and reluctant heroine scthik kinda loses flavor when you know you just going to lose face compared to the badass recolor and the killer robot.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Sonu23

[Kuzu]

Shadow and Rouge I think, because they actually have the character development prior to now but it's comes off as inconsistant and lacking.

Shadow could use a bit more meaniful dynamics with characters beyond his team plus some typical jerkass/classy bastard tendencies he had in SA2. I actually miss his angst, unlike Sonic and others, Shadow was generally a tragically driven character who broke the mold for character range and believe Shadow's apathy is just as much a staple as Sonic's fun personality and Knuckles temper. Make his character more fitted into a context in the games plot where he actually fits, a little bit of action, suspense, seriousness, and badassery are Shadow's comfort Zone. His rivalry with Sonic needs to be defined to, unlike Metal and Knuckles, Shadow takes Sonic to his limits if need be. I like to see a bit more intereaction between the two since they just fight for no reason or team up at the last minute, and thier personalites clash to a point where they both settle things for bigger stakes. It makes it more intense than vs. Knuckles in my opinion.

Rouge on the other hand needs a complete rewrite of her character, here we have is a womanly suductress who has no worthy feets of being on Blazes level. I hoped she be the Black Widow of Sonic. But she's just the sidekick to Team Dark. Her little love story with Knuckles and Shadow somewhat needs to go, making use of her charm towards men to get what she wants is a perfect staple of the spy. But more importantly, her competance as a fighter, being rescued is Amy's thing not a goverment agent like rouge. I guess anthromorphic bat who's GUN's top spy needs to be swepted off her feet by the over powerful, masculine male characters. It's not the fact her being a female restricts her from being a challenge towards the big boys(Other wise we woudn't have Blaze) it's the facr she's way to feminine to be a threat, her seductress and reluctant heroine scthik kinda loses flavor when you know you just going to lose face compared to the badass recolor and the killer robot.

........*sigh* Since when is femininity a weakness?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

........*sigh* Since when is femininity a weakness?

Do I need to break out Katara from Avatar: The Last Airbender as an example of a very feminine and motherly character who is more than capable of unbelievably kicking your ass six ways from sunday?

Being an action girl doesn't mean she can't be feminine.

[Komodin]

........*sigh* Since when is femininity a weakness?

It's been like that for a long while, mang.

[Nerfuffle]

Rouge’s weakness isn’t her feminineness, it’s her magpie tendency to be distracted by shiny things. Just like Sonic.

You could criticize Sonic team for only depicting female characters as having hormones, but that’s something that wont change overnight.

Personally, Rouge could really use some class but there are bigger fires to stomp out.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Vantoggle

[Kuzu]

It's been like that for a long while, mang.

Trope needs to die in a fire.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's been like that for a long while, mang.

I find it funny that that trope lists a number of feminine characters who you would want to stay far the hell away from with a 20 foot because of how terrifying and badass they can be.

Edited May 21, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

They just need to stop having Rouge play second fiddle to Shadow all the damn time, that's what's ultimately killing her credibility. Anything she does nowadays is in service to Shadow instead of her own merit and motivation; yes, I understand they're close friends, but does she really need to be Shadow's Tails? Especially when she's shown a much more interesting personality beforehand?

I'd much rather see her as a neutral party robbing both sides blind for her own ends, basically have her actions be motivated strictly by self interest, but have a few positive traits so she can still be likable. Her and Shadow can still be tight, just have Rouge breakout more so she can establish a character of her own. No she does not need to be "Black Widow" she needs to be Rouge, as in use her charm and wit to get what she wants instead of "Lol Superpowers". Obviously she should still be a capable fighter, but Rouge always struck me as the type who'd rather have someone else do the dirty work for her, and avoid direct confrontation if necessary.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'd much rather see her as a neutral party robbing both sides blind for her own ends, basically have her actions be motivated strictly by self interest, but have a few positive traits so she can still be likable. Her and Shadow can still be tight, just have Rouge breakout more so she can establish a character of her own. No she does not need to be "Black Widow" she needs to be Rouge, as in use her charm and wit to get what she wants instead of "Lol Superpowers". Obviously she should still be a capable fighter, but Rouge always struck me as the type who'd rather have someone else do the dirty work for her, and avoid direct confrontation if necessary.

I dunno.

I like the idea of her being a neutral party and being a thief, but we can also tie that in with her position as a spy stealing and holding secrets from the other characters not aligned with her and wielding them as weapons for her to use to convince others to do what she deems necessary.

Eggman is about to do something to the world, and Rouge reveals that she stole the bluebrints for his latest weapon and GUN and Sonic and the Gang could use it as way to counter it faster than previous threats if he doesn't give her what she needs/wants. Or Sonic and the gang have found a Chaos Emerald or one of Eggman's weapons that they don't want falling into the wrong hands and Rouge steals it for GUN or herself.

Probably going to set off some vibes, but kind of like how she's been doing in the comics for the most part.

[Darth InVaders]

Honestly, I don't really want any of the major characters to have much development at all past what they already got. Tails & Amy got some development in Sonic Adventure and look what happened... they bounce between reverting to their previous versions or they come off as bland and boring. Shadow's character development turned him into an idiot in his own game "piercing the stars... durrrrr".

I view the Sonic series as more of a roller coaster anyway - it doesn't need character development and serious depth, just thrills and fun; though some depth in the individual stories and continuity wouldn't be bad (Unleashed is a perfect example of the perfect Sonic story; Sonic & Knuckles stories in Adventure were too).

The only real character development should mostly be in first establishing characters (Knuckles and Shadow's stories - though with so many characters like these they don't need any more right now) or for one off characters (Chip, Chaos, Tikal)

[Kuzu]

I dunno.

I like the idea of her being a neutral party and being a thief, but we can also tie that in with her position as a spy stealing and holding secrets from the other characters not aligned with her and wielding them as weapons for her to use to convince others to do what she deems necessary.

Eggman is about to do something to the world, and Rouge reveals that she stole the bluebrints for his latest weapon and GUN and Sonic and the Gang could use it as way to counter it faster than previous threats if he doesn't give her what she needs/wants. Or Sonic and the gang have found a Chaos Emerald or one of Eggman's weapons that they don't want falling into the wrong hands and Rouge steals it for GUN or herself.

The thing is, that can be accomplished with or without GUN, because let's be real, GUN are completely irrelevant as far as the series is concerned; their only purpose was to arrest Sonic, and kill Maria other than that, their role is completely inconsequential at best. You can easily have Rouge's actions be motivated by her own selfishness rather than the benefit of another, which goes back to the problem with her from before. I mean you can just have her steal some important information and have her sell to somebody who needs it for a price, or maybe she's just trying to trick somebody.

Probably going to set off some vibes, but kind of like how she's been doing in the comics for the most part.

She's far too minor in the comics to count in my opinion.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, I don't really want any of the major characters to have much development at all past what they already got. Tails & Amy got some development in Sonic Adventure and look what happened... they bounce between reverting to their previous versions or they come off as bland and boring. Shadow's character development turned him into an idiot in his own game "piercing the stars... durrrrr".

I view the Sonic series as more of a roller coaster anyway - it doesn't need character development and serious depth, just thrills and fun; though some depth in the individual stories and continuity wouldn't be bad (Unleashed is a perfect example of the perfect Sonic story; Sonic & Knuckles stories in Adventure were too).

The only real character development should mostly be in first establishing characters (Knuckles and Shadow's stories - though with so many characters like these they don't need any more right now) or for one off characters (Chip, Chaos, Tikal)

So based on how I'm reading this, you don't want the major character to be more interesting characters? Because that's what their development and depth is there to accomplish.

The thing is, that can be accomplished with or without GUN, because let's be real, GUN are completely irrelevant as far as the series is concerned; their only purpose was to arrest Sonic, and kill Maria other than that, their role is completely inconsequential at best. You can easily have Rouge's actions be motivated by her own selfishness rather than the benefit of another, which goes back to the problem with her from before. I mean you can just have her steal some important information and have her sell to somebody who needs it for a price, or maybe she's just trying to trick somebody.

Really, GUN was more of a side example since I did include some things she would do for herself.

However, as far as them being irrelevant? That's completely ignoring the role they played in ShTH as the line of defense against the Black Arms. And if anything, I'd say GUN would definitely need more development based on where this could go.

But let's not forget that even Rouge has her morals. I'd expect her to rob a jewel store in broad daylight, or sell information she's allowed to have to those who want it, but I wouldn't expect her to be any more cold of a character even with her selfishness. Thief with a heart of gold perhaps?

She's far too minor in the comics to count in my opinion.

You gotta atleast give her props when she does appear tho.

Edited May 21, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Darth InVaders]

They just need to stop having Rouge play second fiddle to Shadow all the damn time, that's what's ultimately killing her credibility. Anything she does nowadays is in service to Shadow instead of her own merit and motivation; yes, I understand they're close friends, but does she really need to be Shadow's Tails? Especially when she's shown a much more interesting personality beforehand?

I'd much rather see her as a neutral party robbing both sides blind for her own ends, basically have her actions be motivated strictly by self interest, but have a few positive traits so she can still be likable. Her and Shadow can still be tight, just have Rouge breakout more so she can establish a character of her own. No she does not need to be "Black Widow" she needs to be Rouge, as in use her charm and wit to get what she wants instead of "Lol Superpowers". Obviously she should still be a capable fighter, but Rouge always struck me as the type who'd rather have someone else do the dirty work for her, and avoid direct confrontation if necessary.

I never really found Rouge to be Shadow's version of Tails - mostly because she is often the leader of Team Dark (Heroes) or more of an equal partner who just isn't as important in the plot (Sonic06)

<br />

So based on how I&amp;#39;m reading this, you don&amp;#39;t want the major character to be more interesting characters? Because that&amp;#39;s what their development and depth is there to accomplish.<br />

And like the Tails, Amy and Shadow examples I provided; it can also go the opposite way and make them less interesting characters - the character development of the Simpsons has been mostly nil and they're still interesting

Edited May 21, 2012 by Darth InVaders

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And like the Tails, Amy and Shadow examples I provided; it can also go the opposite way and make them less interesting characters - the character development of the Simpsons has been mostly nil and they're still interesting

Then simply put, go the way that makes them more interesting characters and try to maintain it as you go. You don't call it quits just because something went wrong. You find the problem, fix it, and continue.

And if you want to go about with comparisons, Avatar the Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra have character development each and every episode, and they become more interesting characters as a result. I'd rather go a path where characters grow than a path where their character stagnates.

Edited May 21, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

However, as far as them being irrelevant? That's completely ignoring the role they played in ShTH as the line of defense against the Black Arms. And if anything, I'd say GUN would definitely need more development based on where this could go.

All they did was fight some aliens, that's it, that's not really anything substantial or something particularly important considering Sonic and everyone else were doing the same thing. GUN doesn't need development they haven't done anything worth getting development for; I mean the only thing I can see worth developing was the moral ambiguity they had in Sa2, but after Shadow's game they seemed to have gotten over that and are just another set of good guys now.

But let's not forget that even Rouge has her morals. I'd expect her to rob a jewel store in broad daylight, or sell information she's allowed to have to those who want it, but I wouldn't expect her to be any more cold of a character even with her selfishness. Thief with a heart of gold perhaps

But if her positive traits outweigh her negative ones, then it really defeats the who neutral thing. If Rouge to be truly neutral, she needs to do some morally ambiguous things, no one saying she should kick puppies and torch villages, but some less than heroic acts wouldn't hurt. We need some grey in this series dammit.

I never really found Rouge to be Shadow's version of Tails - mostly because she is often the leader of Team Dark (Heroes) or more of an equal partner who just isn't as important in the plot (Sonic06)

Her being the leader didn't change the fact that the plot focused mainly on Shadow, and all she does in 06 is get kidnapped so Shadow can rescue her. When I said she's Shadow's version of Tails, I meant that most of her actions revolve around Shadow, and his problems instead of her own motivation and merit, basically what Tails is to Sonic, with the difference being that Tails` character growth was about his relationship with Sonic, while Rouge actually had her own motivations for her actions before Shadow took over.

Actually I can argue that at least with Sonic & Tails, they work together equally, and have just as much as much bearing on the plot as each other than with Shadow & Rouge.

Edited May 21, 2012 by The Batman

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

All they did was fight some aliens, that's it, that's not really anything substantial or something particularly important considering Sonic and everyone else were doing the same thing.

That's not exactly "irrelevant' either, dude. You know that. People are always throwing that word around without even bothering to consider the rest of their merits as if that's everything they did, and in a lot of these case they're not even trying to find much that's relevant about them.

GUN doesn't need development they haven't done anything worth getting development for; I mean the only thing I can see worth developing was the moral ambiguity they had in Sa2, but after Shadow's game they seemed to have gotten over that and are just another set of good guys now.

Dude, I know you, and you can't be that stuck on how to develop GUN. I'm not saying they have to become a main force in the series (well I'd encourage it, but that's not what I'm getting at here), but its not like they have nothing else going for them. Just like how a feminine character can do more than meets the eye, something like GUN can do more than meets the eye as well, and there are lots of material out there to use as an example to develop them so.

Here's an example to help out. They could be like SHIELD from the Avengers, seemingly heroic until the heroes discover that they were making incredibly powerful weapons with the tesseract like Hydra was (despite having well intentions for doing so by comparison) or having their higher ups be willing to nuke a city just to stop an alien invasion against the advise of one of their directors. Or they could be somewhat like the Light from Young Justice, except without being too villainous in their actions (or maybe not, tho they ARE against Eggman).

But if her positive traits outweigh her negative ones, then it really defeats the who neutral thing. If Rouge to be truly neutral, she needs to do some morally ambiguous things, no one saying she should kick puppies and torch villages, but some less than heroic acts wouldn't hurt. We need some grey in this series dammit.

As does her negative ones outweighing her positive ones. It's not so much her being a good guy than it is giving her a line that she won't cross despite being morally ambiguous. Even evil has standards, I don't see why an Anti-hero or a more neutral character can't have them either.

Edited May 21, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

That's not exactly "irrelevant' either, dude. You know that. People are always throwing that word around without even bothering to consider the rest of their merits as if that's everything they did, and in a lot of these case they're not even trying to find much that's relevant about them.

Because their ultimate contributions to the series are in service to other, more important characters. Its like trying to develop Luke Skywalker's Aunt and Uncle when their only purpose was to die so Luke isn't tied down by anything. Somethings are better left as minor and inconsequential as not to distract from the story.

Dude, I know you, and you can't be that stuck on how to develop GUN. I'm not saying they have to become a main force in the series (well I'd encourage it, but that's not what I'm getting at here), but its not like they have nothing else going for them.

They really don't, and I don't think its worth trying to come up with contrived story elements to make them a prominent force either, especially when there are other, more pressing things that need fleshing out in the series; ya know like the characters themselves?

Just like how a feminine character can do more than meets the eye, something like GUN can do more than meets the eye as well, and there are lots of material out there to use as an example to develop them so

I'm pretty sure there are, but the thing is; GUN haven't been all that important to the series, so why waste time developing them? Is anyone going to care if they're developed or not? Will the plot not be able to move forward if they're forgotten?

Its not that I'm against GUN getting development, its that there are more important things in the series than would probably be better suited.

.

Here's an example to help out. They could be like SHIELD from the Avengers, seemingly heroic until the heroes discover that they were making incredibly powerful weapons with the tesseract like Hydra was (despite having well intentions for doing so by comparison)

.

Ok, unless the commander starts wearing an Eyepatch and recruits Sonic and co for the furry Avengers; I hardly doubt that's going to happen. SHIELD have a place in their universe; they're the ones who got the Avengers together, and are the ones who hold all of the dangerous criminals of the Marvel universe in check, GUN have done nowhere near as anything important.

As does her negative ones outweighing her positive ones. It's not so much her being a good guy than it is giving her a line that she won't cross despite being morally ambiguous. Even evil has standards, I don't see why an Anti-hero or a more neutral character can't have them either.

I'm saying her positive traits shouldn't be so prominent as to detract from her ambiguity; her main characteristic should be her selfishness with her standards coming in sparingly.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Because their ultimate contributions to the series are in service to other, more important characters. Its like trying to develop Luke Skywalker's Aunt and Uncle when their only purpose was to die so Luke isn't tied down by anything. Somethings are better left as minor and inconsequential as not to distract from the story.

Edited May 21, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Tsukine]

Character development..

It's kind of hard to say, since all characters from the Sonic universe didnt had much, just Shadow, he actualy had a back story and some character development on StH but it failed horribly in my opinion, Sonic Team could have done a lot better on that game, it did had potencial to be a good one at that.

Other than that.. I think the characters are kid of bland, not that it's a bad thing, you already know their traits and personality and doesnt goes beyond that, but I'd like to see more interaction with all of them, and not just tiny cutscenes where they appear and say a phrase with 3 words while Sonic gets the spotlight as usual.

Sonic Colours made me happy on that sense, it had longer cutscenes than usual and it was really fun to see how Sonic and Tails interacted, since up until now it was just "Wow Sonic is so cool" "I gotta help Sonic" "Hey Tails lend me a hand" and we can also see how their relationship grew, so I guess that they also had some development. Some of you say Sonic had some on SatBK but I havent played it yet so I can't really say.

Another thing id like would be some background story for Sonic, like where he comes from and all. Doesnt needs to be put on a game but its some small aditional info i would have like to have read on the game's booklets, mostly because we know very little (just angel island?) about Sonic and inc's world, I think it would be fun to explore their world, even if just a bit. I can't be the only one who's curious about it.

I know the Archie Comics actualy explored their world, but since it isnt canon I'm not gonna really bother with it.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Tsukine

[Kuzu]

Except GUN have contributed more more than that to be compared to sacrificial lambs like Luke's aunt and uncle, dude. Not always good contributions, but they've done more than that. And GUN was far from minor in ShTH, because they were the opposing side to the other major force in the game, the Black Arms, and they further contributed and added to the plot. You know that, dude. I don't see why you're devaluing their appearance here.

They, and by extension the government, were the likely ones who commissioned Gerald Robotnik in the creation of Project Shadow since they were wanting to develop weapons of mass destruction on the ARK. They also were the ones who were sent to cease the development of Shadow for whatever reasons the government made to end it's development. They were the ones who kept research data over the projects that Eggman blasted through their base to get and kept information the raid that lead to the Project's completion and Gerald's insanity to where he tried to destroy all life on earth. They were also the ones trying to capture Shadow likely in secret while using Sonic as a scapegoat for the media. And they were also the ones providing planetary defense when the Black Arms invaded the planet and did their damndest to keep the population safe from the attackers. While they were doing this, they were the ones trying to recommission the Eclipse Cannon in an attempt to destroy the invaders all while sending their robots into the Comet to attack them on the alien's own turf. And this is before going into the stuff characters like Rouge have been doing for them by extension.

That's quite a contribution dude.

But that's just it, most of the things you listed are ambiguous at best; yeah sure we can say that GUN were the ones who ultimately caused Gerald's insanity, and Shadow's revenge but because how ambiguous the series makes it, I can easily just say it was "Generic Military B" who raided the ark that day.

But GUN getting developed wasn't the point I was trying to make, I was trying to say that having Rouge's motivations and actions being completely tied to another organization slightly takes the novelty out of her being a thief; the type of character who robs people for her own selfish motivation, having her just be "GUN Agent" robs her of that character mostly because she'd be working for someone else rather than herself.

But since I ticked you of a bit, I'll reply to the rest of your points.

Excuse the bluntness, but why can't we fucking do that WITH the characters themselves? It's not rocket science here.

Because like I said, it takes attention away from Rouge's role as a thief; she becomes more of a tool for GUN than a character with her own goals.

I'm not saying using her to develop GUN is a bad thing, but her being a thief is a major part of her character that's been ignored for a long time, and taking away that part of her character to make her GUN's tool, just doesn't sit well with me.

Why waste time developing any of characters aside from Sonic and Eggman period if you're going to make that argument then?

Well most of the other characters have had bigger roles than GUN for starters...

Dude, really? That's starting to piss me off, because now you're just mocking me here and I don't know where the hell this is coming from.

You know full well I was just using that as an example of how GUN can be developed more like I've been saying this whole time. Why you even said that just makes me think you did that just to mock me here, and you've practically been someone I've considered a friend on these forums, which makes this even more irritating.

I'm sorry if that came off as assholeish, but I think its kind of limiting to try to apply a concept from one series to another; SHIELD is spy fiction, Sonic is Action/Adventure so that's kind of where my contention came from.

Then don't detract from her ambiguity. But her standards should come in whenever there's conflict, because they're also the things that can keep her between ambiguous yet also determine whether she's likable or not. And in a series like this, it is very easy to fall in the simple category of good or evil if you're not careful. This is also why I suggest developing GUN, because you can make that neutral spectrum more visible so that she works differently from the Heroes and the Villains as opposed to having the audience treat her as one of either of the two categories. GUN has morally ambiguous elements to them already despite being on the more heroic side, so you can definitely work with that shade to make Rouge more ambiguous and even further make that point when she's on her own.

The series is very Black and White with its morality, even the most Gray characters have goodish qualities, hell even Eggman has his positive traits despite him being a villain. What I was saying was, yes, Rouge should have standards that she should not cross so she can remain likable, but that should really be when the situation calls for it. Rouge's primary interest should be to herself, basically the audience shouldn't be distracted from her neutrality with her "Goodness" otherwise she might come off as a Karma Houdini; basically just have the characters be weary and cautious when she's around, and not be so quick to trust her.

But like I said, GUN wasn't the main point I was trying to make, its Rouge's involvement with them is what I'm talking about.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But that's just it, most of the things you listed are ambiguous at best; yeah sure we can say that GUN were the ones who ultimately caused Gerald's insanity, and Shadow's revenge but because how ambiguous the series makes it, I can easily just say it was "Generic Military B" who raided the ark that day.

That's all the more reason for them to be developed further so that they can be identified more as GUN and less as "Generic Military B"

But GUN getting developed wasn't the point I was trying to make, I was trying to say that having Rouge's motivations and actions being completely tied to another organization slightly takes the novelty out of her being a thief; the type of character who robs people for her own selfish motivation, having her just be "GUN Agent" robs her of that character mostly because she'd be working for someone else rather than herself.

She doesn't have to just be "GUN Agent" any more than Tails can just be Sonic's sidekick or the Chaotix just be the Detectives. A character can be whatever in their occupations and still be layered enough to be their own character. If anything, their jobs can serve to magnify their character depending on how they act, in the same sense that Shadow is a living WMD who was created to destroy can use his destructive powers as a means to protect or how Sonic's inflated sense of heroics caused him to be the primary catalyst that ironically led to Eggman using him to split the planet open in Unleashed.

Because like I said, it takes attention away from Rouge's role as a thief; she becomes more of a tool for GUN than a character with her own goals.

I'm not saying using her to develop GUN is a bad thing, but her being a thief is a major part of her character that's been ignored for a long time, and taking away that part of her character to make her GUN's tool, just doesn't sit well with me.

Okay, I think we've gone in different directions here, because I've been thinking of Rouge and GUN as completely separate entities in this argument while at the same time using them to complement each other.

I'm not saying that Rouge should be used as a tool for GUN. On their payroll, she's spy who adheres to their command only doing her thievery whenever it doesn't conflict with whatever objectives. Her thieving skills complement her role as a spy because she can covertly steal things under her other character's noses while they're distracted with something else. She can then use that as a coercion for other characters to do what she wants of them in order for her to complete her objective.

Off their payroll, she's a thief who will rob a jewelry store in broad daylight while GUN looks the other way thanks to her service to them. Since she's not working for GUN at the moment, everything out their is free game for her to take for no one but herself unless someone else is willing to barter with her for it. She will steal weapons, money, jewels, and anything else she finds value in and from anyone she wants and even go Tomb Raider for other valuables in other isolated parts of the world. However, should whatever she's trying to take be worth more trouble in her hands than she bargained for, or cause problems she definitely doesn't want on her conscious, she's not to prideful to leave it where it is.

Now granted, this is just a summary. You can do a lot with her character given all that, and develop her into something on her own and not under someone else's umbrella.

Well most of the other characters have had bigger roles than GUN for starters...

While others have had less roles by comparison. Heck, I'd dare say GUN as an organization have been just as developed as Amy has as a character altogether.

I'm sorry if that came off as assholeish, but I think its kind of limiting to try to apply a concept from one series to another; SHIELD is spy fiction, Sonic is Action/Adventure so that's kind of where my contention came from.

You can go in all sorts of directions with it. I used that as an example of how GUN could develop because you said you couldn't think of how they could, so I was providing some help. There's too much fiction out their with groups and characters that subvert being generic, so with that in mind I don't see how GUN couldn't develop into their own group with unique qualities.

Their very counterpart in the Archie comics are also a good example of how they can develop into a more involved organization and a major force in the series, and they've made even larger contributions there by comparison.

The series is very Black and White with its morality, even the most Gray characters have goodish qualities, hell even Eggman has his positive traits despite him being a villain. What I was saying was, yes, Rouge should have standards that she should not cross so she can remain likable, but that should really be when the situation calls for it. Rouge's primary interest should be to herself, basically the audience shouldn't be distracted from her neutrality with her "Goodness" otherwise she might come off as a Karma Houdini; basically just have the characters be weary and cautious when she's around, and not be so quick to trust her.

Now that I can get behind.

But like I said, GUN wasn't the main point I was trying to make, its Rouge's involvement with them is what I'm talking about.

Well I'm all for making Rouge her own character and not merely a tool for an organization or under the shadow of another character. But with that said, their interconnection with each other could be used to complement and build each other just as much as them being on their own can.

[iDEATH]

I feel the majority of the cast could use a little more development, the way the series is now however I don't see it happening. The current trend of one off stories with one shot characters means there's little room for major developments. I'd like to see another Saga, like the original Death egg saga where a story is allowed to grow gradually.

Also I feel Sonic himself is quite a one note character, I miss the old STC days where Sonic had several sides to his personality. Such a change in the games however would require Sega to do something to the story that would cause a massive impact on sonic. e.g. killing tails

[BlueBlur97]

If you ask me, I would say Silver needed some work. I mean, come on! All we know about him is that he's a time traveler and he comes back to Sonic's time, only when there's something wrong with his future. It would be nice if they made a story of his own to describe his lifestyle.

[Salamander]

If you ask me, I would say Silver needed some work. I mean, come on! All we know about him is that he's a time traveler and he comes back to Sonic's time, only when there's something wrong with his future. It would be nice if they made a story of his own to describe his lifestyle.

Kinda like Sonic, perhaps. He enjoys living a relaxed and free life until trouble starts brewing and he has to dive off into another strange new land. I think it'd be neat to see more parallels between the two. Shadow always has to share the spotlight with Sonic when it comes to heroism, but Silver's the only hero the future has. Or is he?

[BlueBlur97]

Kinda like Sonic, perhaps. He enjoys living a relaxed and free life until trouble starts brewing and he has to dive off into another strange new land. I think it'd be neat to see more parallels between the two. Shadow always has to share the spotlight with Sonic when it comes to heroism, but Silver's the only hero the future has. Or is he?

That's what I mean, see? Most of the Sonic characters, even Tails, have enough information we can set as a base. But thanks to the ending of Sonic '06, we now no longer have enough info to define Silver completely.

It would totally ROCK if there was a game where Sonic went to Silver's time.