The WereHog Was a Great Idea

[Phos]

You know that the Werehog is an almost verbatim ripof of God of War, right? They even copied the way Kratos can't turn in place, in spite of this being detrimental to platforming.

I despise the Werehog in ways you can only begin to imagine. Before they came up with the idea, they were going to have slower levels as Sonic. They knew what they had to do and they didn't do it. They knew what they were doing and they did it anyway.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Phos

[Tornado]

You know that the Werehog is an almost verbatim ripof of God of War, right? They even copied the way Kratos can't turn in place, in spite of this being detrimental to platforming.

That's largely why I enjoyed the Werehog levels so much. Even a dummied down rip-off of a good thing still isn't really a bad thing. Though I have to say that they probably shouldn't have been placed in a game with Sonic on the cover.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Tornado

[lounge]

I really hope they don't bring it back. There's no point in making a sequel if you don't improve upon the previous game.

The only possible way a good majority of people would have enjoyed the werehog, is if they designed his gameplay to be like the incredible hulk. Jumping super high from rooftops and smashing everything in your way. (No repetitive beat em' up concept)

[Blacklightning]

You know that the Werehog is an almost verbatim ripof of God of War, right? They even copied the way Kratos can't turn in place, in spite of this being detrimental to platforming.

That's exactly what I was getting at. I was only saying an almost verbatim DMC ripoff would've complimented the gameplay style a fuckton better than an almost verbatim GoW ripoff. GoW combos force you to cycle through a whole moveset to get any of the moves that are actually worth half a crap, and that just serves to rob from the pacing of the game. Don't get me wrong, it's okay on its own, but as far as Sonic trends go it's needlessly cumbersome.

[Phos]

The whole thing was needlessly cumbersome. They copied a game principally based on fighting and stuck it in a bunch of level composed of crappy jumping puzzles.

[Sheff]

As people have said before, it was a good idea but could have been executed WAY better.

I was unfortunate enough to have the Wii version (planning to get the other to compare, well, when I get a 360 that is), and yes, 75% of the time you play as Werehog. Which pissed me off. BADLY.

Anyway, it was pretty much "platform for a minute, fight for two" the whole time, and even then, the platforming wasn't that great. Hell, most of it was swinging from poles to get to the next area. Plus, the combos never really worked well either.

So, if SEGA has to bring the more furrier version of the blue blur back, they better improve on his gameplay A LOT. They have some experiance, so they should get right.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

In retrospect, the thing I disliked most about the Werehog's gameplay was the block-pushing. It felt like I was playing Legend of Zelda.

Which is odd, becuase it worked in Marble Zone.

Apparently, I'm just unpleasable when it comes to 3D.

[SuperStingray]

In retrospect, the thing I disliked most about the Werehog's gameplay was the block-pushing. It felt like I was playing Legend of Zelda.

Which is odd, becuase it worked in Marble Zone.

Apparently, I'm just unpleasable when it comes to 3D.

The issue isn't really the block pushing itself, it's just that it takes far longer to get somewhere with it. But either way, the blocks were my least favorite part in Marble Zone simply because I don't like just standing around and jumping slowly approaching walls waiting to get to the end of the lava.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

The issue isn't really the block pushing itself, it's just that it takes far longer to get somewhere with it. But either way, the blocks were my least favorite part in Marble Zone simply because I don't like just standing around and jumping slowly approaching walls waiting to get to the end of the lava.

Granted. It's the sense of time-consuming tedium that annoys. Ditto when you have to go through all the rigmarole of pulling the circular cranks to raise platforms up and down. And doubly annoying in Mazuri when you have to drag blocks onto platforms.

But with regard to Marble Zone, you can't tell me that riding geysers of boiling rock wasn't awesome? I wish they'd given the player more control when you ride the lava in SatBK's The Cauldron... although in fairness that section was frustrating enough without the inevitability of throwing yourself to your doom accidentally.

[SuperStingray]

Granted. It's the sense of time-consuming tedium that annoys. Ditto when you have to go through all the rigmarole of pulling the circular cranks to raise platforms up and down. And doubly annoying in Mazuri when you have to drag blocks onto platforms.

Oh yeah, that part was annoying. The blocks I could tolerate, but going back and forth to adjust the platform height especially at that slow pace is just lame.

But with regard to Marble Zone, you can't tell me that riding geysers of boiling rock wasn't awesome? I wish they'd given the player more control when you ride the lava in SatBK's The Cauldron... although in fairness that section was frustrating enough without the inevitability of throwing yourself to your doom accidentally.

Okay, the lava geysers were cool, but I really only looked forward to them when riding the block because it meant I could get back to my regularly scheduled platforming. I felt BK's lava riding was actually more entertaining even as it was because it was quicker and the environment was enthralling enough to keep me engaged.

[Gabz Girl]

So, it seems there's an equality of people disliking Werehog on both 360 and Wii. To me, the Werehog in 360 always looked better when I watch gameplay clips. ..Mostly because Werehog is alot faster. 8/

But aren't the Werehog 360 stages alot longer than the Wii stages? If that's so, then I guess I can understand why there's so much hate for it. Who wants to keep beating up enemies for 15 minutes and hearing that stupid jazz music every 30 seconds? Oh joy!

PS: I also like the jazzy battle music. It's great but GAWD is it annoying or what when it plays so damn much!

[Urtheart]

But aren't the Werehog 360 stages alot longer than the Wii stages? If that's so, then I guess I can understand why there's so much hate for it. Who wants to keep beating up enemies for 15 minutes and hearing that stupid jazz music every 30 seconds? Oh joy!

Not sure if the 360 ones are longer, but the Wii definitly has a worse balance between Werehog and Hedgehog.

As for is the Werehog a good idea? I think more people outside the Sonic Fanbase (and more so the Hardcore gaming base) might prefer it, I've certainly found more people prefer the Werehog levels than Hedgehog due to it being more the style of game they play.

But since I am talking against the fanbase I'm obviously wrong.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

But aren't the Werehog 360 stages alot longer than the Wii stages? If that's so, then I guess I can understand why there's so much hate for it. Who wants to keep beating up enemies for 15 minutes and hearing that stupid jazz music every 30 seconds? Oh joy!

Having only the 360 version, I can't say if the Wii levels are shorter... but the 360 ones are objectively looooooooooooooooooooong.

You are pretty much without exception fed up when you get to the end of a Night stage.

And the exception is Eggmanland, where you end curled up in a fetal ball on the floor.

[Master hunter]

Wii Werehog levels are shorter yet there are far more of them. A 360 werehog level is about the same length as 2 Wii werehog levels.

Plus with the Wii you have the worst idea for a control system either (if you use the normal method, i.e. Gamecube pad). Why they had attack as the shoulder buttons, and worse dash as a double tap, I'll never know. They could've had something like this (in brackets - what they used).

L - Shield (Left fist)

R - Dash (Right fist)

Z - Unleash (unused)

B - Grab (Shield)

A - Jump (Jump)

X - Light attack (Grab)

Y - Heavy attack (unleash)

And to not have the option to change this is unforgivable IMO.

[Sean]

The werehog itself is cute. Speaking on behalf of the PS2 version, the problem with the werehog stages is that they're so cumbersome because you're forced to pummel through them during your first playthrough. I found them quite enjoyable when I replayed them after I beat the game, but being forced through three to five werehog stages with only one Sonic stage to separate them is really a test of patience.

There isn't really a proper balance between the werehog and Sonic. The high-end version has fewer werehog stages, but they're also much longer (and the extra Sonic acts don't seem they're worth much), so the Sonic-to-werehog stage ratio is still almost exactly the same as it was in the PS2 version.

The stages are fine when you're not forced to play through so much of them at once. At least I enjoyed the werehog more than Kingdom Hearts II.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Jake

[Phos]

Not sure if the 360 ones are longer, but the Wii definitly has a worse balance between Werehog and Hedgehog.

As for is the Werehog a good idea? I think more people outside the Sonic Fanbase (and more so the Hardcore gaming base) might prefer it, I've certainly found more people prefer the Werehog levels than Hedgehog due to it being more the style of game they play.

But since I am talking against the fanbase I'm obviously wrong.

Getting a proper sampling on this kind of thing is tough, and probably not really worth the trouble. A friend of mine loves God of War, but dislikes the Werehog. Specifically, he think the combat is alright, but the jumping puzzles (calling it platforming feels like I'm giving it too much credit), not so much. Actually, I don't think there is such a thing as "representative" in this context.

Here's the thing though: How many people interested in hack 'n slashes or Beat em ups are really going to look to a Sonic game for that kind of thing?

[SuperStingray]

One of the reasons I DO like the Werehog is that the combat is very comical; I just find the mix of the poppy jazz and the wild ape like moves hilarious. I don't know if GoW is like that, but if it isn't, the Werehog has a bit of an upper hand there to me.

[redmenace]

One of the reasons I DO like the Werehog is that the combat is very comical; I just find the mix of the poppy jazz and the wild ape like moves hilarious. I don't know if GoW is like that, but if it isn't, the Werehog has a bit of an upper hand there to me.

I agree with this. I loved every time the Werehog howled.

[Scarlet2106]

For me, it was more interesting than the day gameplay, though I'd rather have a return to the old style. Probably because I felt like I had more control over what I was doing rather than it just seeming like I was being dragged through the levels.

[Indigo Rush]

The topic title makes me 'lol' every time.

[Donilicious]

I like the idea of a werehog mainly just because i like werewolves. But I didn't like the way the game had you play as him.

[Dark Qiviut]

I haven't played the game, but character-wise, I think the Werehog was a GREAT idea for the series. Sonic had no choice but to adapt to his new, albeit temporary, Werehog form. Plus, the Werehog made way into helping Sonic Team explore Sonic's aggressive, very protective part of him, something that hasn't been done in a while.

One of the reasons I DO like the Werehog is that the combat is very comical; I just find the mix of the poppy jazz and the wild ape like moves hilarious. I don't know if GoW is like that, but if it isn't, the Werehog has a bit of an upper hand there to me.

That seems to be something a lot of fans don't know about or have forgotten. Sonic Unleashed was humorous, slapstick, and a SATIRE. Sonic Unleashed was poking fun at many games and genres, including Next Gen, as their plots, environments, and mood are almost completely opposite one another. In terms of gameplay, the Werehog was likely parodying "God of War" while paying homage to Ristar simultaneously. Edited May 23, 2009 by Dark Qiviut

[Tornado]

That seems to be something a lot of fans don't know about or have forgotten. Sonic Unleashed was humorous, slapstick, and a SATIRE. Sonic Unleashed was poking fun at many games and genres, including Next Gen, as their plots, environments, and mood are almost completely opposite one another. In terms of gameplay, the Werehog was likely parodying "God of War" while paying homage to Ristar simultaneously.

Parodies, satire and homages only work when the thing being parodied and the thing actually doing the parody are of similar quality (or if the thing being parodied is of lesser quality). When you have something mediocre poking fun at something excellent, it ceases being clever and starts being pretentious.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Tornado

[RhikoruFa-La-La-La-♪]

I must say I feel mixed about the Werehog.

The music, the atmosphere, heck, even the gameplay was good or even great. However, the stages were just too long. Now, before you say "Well, play the Sonic stages differently" I say, no. Why? Because they were meant to play fast, not stop and explore. Sure, when collecting medals you have to stop at places, take different paths, but overall, getting through the stage fast and furious is the way to go, leaving you with about 5-8 minutes when you first tackle each one (from my experience).

Then you have the Werehog, which while can be played back fairly quickly once you're powered up, typically take around 15, maybe 20 minutes.

That is just too flow breaking to go from one stage to the next sucessfully, which I why I think the Werehog felt more "off" to play than, say, Sonic Adventure 2, where each stage usually took around the same amount of time for each character, thus, giving a good balance of gameplay.

So to summarize...Werehog was much too long to balance right with the Day stages. Just fix Sonic's controls a bit so his accelleration isn't so slippery (he has to fumble his feet before he takes off a bit, like just about every OTHER 3D Sonic), and put more platforming into the day stages, or just more platforming day stages like the DLC, but a little easier.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Roffles

[Gabz Girl]

Can I also just mention I found it very strange how all the townspeople reacted so...calmly towards Werehog's appearence. I mean, I know he's just like Sonic personality-wise and all, but if I saw him charging at me from the distance, I would scream. XD I guess the townspeople have seen worse!