The WereHog Was a Great Idea

[SuperStingray]

The music, the atmosphere, heck, even the gameplay was good or even great. However, the stages were just too long. Now, before you say "Well, play the Sonic stages differently" I say, no. Why? Because they were meant to play fast, not stop and explore. Sure, when collecting medals you have to stop at places, take different paths, but overall, getting through the stage fast and furious is the way to go, leaving you with about 5-8 minutes when you first tackle each one (from my experience).

Then you have the Werehog, which while can be played back fairly quickly once you're powered up, typically take around 15, maybe 20 minutes.

Not this argument again. The Sonic stages are 3-5 minutes and the Werehog stages are 4-7 with the exception of Cool Edge and Sky Scramper which are about 10 and even at that there are more Sonic stages.

[Phos]

That's assuming a perfect run. On many of the Werehog stages, you're going to die many times the first time though. Chun-Nan took me roughly 30 minutes because of it's unintuitive jumping puzzles and constant pitfalls.

[SuperStingray]

That's assuming a perfect run. On many of the Werehog stages, you're going to die many times the first time though. Chun-Nan took me roughly 30 minutes because of it's unintuitive jumping puzzles and constant pitfalls.

Thirty? The only misleading and unforgiving design that level has is that pole you have to grab right after you launch. Even if you die there, it should only take you seven tops the first time around.

[Master hunter]

That's assuming a perfect run. On many of the Werehog stages, you're going to die many times the first time though. Chun-Nan took me roughly 30 minutes because of it's unintuitive jumping puzzles and constant pitfalls.

The same could be said for the Hedgehog stages too. I doubt the difference between my first time of 62 minutes for Eggmanland, and the 15 or so I got when I mastered was purely down to the werehog.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Master hunter

[RhikoruFa-La-La-La-♪]

Thirty? The only misleading and unforgiving design that level has is that pole you have to grab right after you launch. Even if you die there, it should only take you seven tops the first time around.

Still, not everyone is going to get used to the controls or level design as intuitively as others. A game shouldn't be simple to get a 4-7 minute run for some people the first or second time and 30 minutes another, and considering that person getting the 30-20 minute runs isn't just one or two people, but a larger mass of people, then something, however little, HAS to be wrong with the design there.

Again, different people might have different experiences, and I know what I have to say is mostly subjective, but as far as I stand, I think the Werehog is fun at many times of playing it, but there were some definite design flaws that kept it from being as good as it could have been.

EDIT: Interesting point, master hunter, but then again, Eggmanland is a friggin long level, it was supposed to be long, even 15 minutes is still fairly long in comparison to a regular day stage. That, and sure, it probably wasn't pure Werehog that got you there, but weren't there more portions and longer portions of the Werehog sections than the Sonic sections? (Considering first runs, that time saving shortcut with Sonic's wall jump doesn't count.)

Considering a normal Sonic stage, yeah, you might die a lot, but I highly doubt that enough people have taken just as long to finish a Day stage than a Werehog stage to give a fair comparison between the two. :/

Edited May 24, 2009 by Roffles

[Phos]

Thirty? The only misleading and unforgiving design that level has is that pole you have to grab right after you launch. Even if you die there, it should only take you seven tops the first time around.

I could rarely tell where I was supposed to go, and the camera had this annoying habit of showing me anything but (Except for Pitfalls, it didn't show me many of them).

The same could be said for the Hedgehog stages too. I doubt the difference between my first time of 62 minutes for Eggmanland, and the 15 or so I got when I mastered was purely down to the werehog.

The vast majority of that 62 minutes was probably spent as the Werehog trying not to fall into the same pitfall for the nth time. That's how it was for me, and pretty much the same for most people from my understanding.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Phos

[EXshad]

I'm...not a fan of the werehog. On the 360, it wasn't BAD, but it was such a rip-off of better action titles. So much so, that my friends and I now call him Dante the GodofWarhog. Not to mention that it was such a jarring change of pace from the speedy Sonic levels. On the PS2 version, the Werehog WAS faster, and his levels were more streamlined, but there were so much of them and the controls were mapped terribly to the controller! The only version I truly had genuine fun playing as the Werehog on was the Wii, because it was fun using the Wii-motes to bash the slag out of enemies In all sincerity, it was a good use of the Wii-mote and it worked surprisingly well to me, and it made an ordinarily bland part of Sonic Unleashed pretty damn fun.

I wish they mixed features from both versions into the final product: give the Werehog streamlined stages and make him faster and control like the Wii/PS2 version, but maintain the XBox 360 control scheme and keep the robust combo system. THAT would have been awesome, and it would've been more of a happy medium.

Edited May 24, 2009 by EXshad

[Eternal EX]

I don't think the Werehog was a "good" idea - more just like an "idea" they happened to have. They could have made platforming and speed into this game without adding in the werehog. Take him out and have Sonic blasting through levels at night but instead of just blasting through in a 2D-ish sort of world with a few 3D bits in there to throw you off, they could have just had a view of Sonic from behind and have him solving puzzles to get to high platforms and killing enemies...

Sounds alot like the new chao searching stage. I didnt like that because 1) sonic was way to fast for that area 2) Even though it was heavier platforming it just wasnt for SU.

Anyways Werehog was a good idea, just wasn't executed the right way.

[turbojet]

I didn't think the werehog was a well executed idea. Playing some of the DLC stages, it's clear to me that they intentionally chose to make the levels long so it can flesh out the game more. The original Mazuri stage was pure great platforming, but the the one in the game was a tedious cluster fuck.

Also the concept of the werehog wasn't goig to be accepted in the first place.

[SuperStingray]

I think the opposite- the Werehog was a bad idea with good execution. I don't entirely blame Sonic Team for thinking of it though considering how mixed up this community is, but that doesn't change the fact that virtually no one was seeking this sort of gameplay in a Sonic game. That said, I'm fine with Sonic having spin off gameplay concepts, but we haven't been getting enough of classic, pure Sonic gameplay to justify the presence of anything else.

[Solid SOAP]

The Werehog was a mediocre and generic idea with somewhat decent execution. It was a blatant God of War rip-off with a Sonic-skin, nothing more, nothing less.

[DarkDefeater]

For those who have never played God of War, like me, the werehog is far easier to accept and appreciate.

[Solid SOAP]

So in other words, the key to enjoying new Sonic games is not to play games that are more fun and better than them?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So in other words, the key to enjoying new Sonic games is not to play games that are more fun and better than them?

You never cease to stretch things, do you?

To expand on what he was saying, if you haven't played GoW at all, the Werehog is a good way to know what it's like. Being easier, it wouldn't be so frustrating (well, I'd argue with that part), but if you'll like the werehog, then you'll like GoW.

I don't see how the hell you got "not playing more enjoyable games" out of that.

[Solid SOAP]

It was a bit of a stretch, actually, considering I really liked Unleashed, Werehog and all. It's just that while Sonic's gameplay was fabulous, the Werehog's gameplay was pretty generic. It was put together well without many technical flaws, it's just that it doesn't have as much depth and isn't as fun as other beat 'em ups such as God of War.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It was a bit of a stretch, actually, considering I really liked Unleashed, Werehog and all.

Um...you do know what I was talking about you stretching, right? Cause I think you went off on a different tangent on what I called you out on.

It was put together well without many technical flaws, it's just that it doesn't have as much depth and isn't as fun as other beat 'em ups such as God of War.

But DarkDefeater specifically said he never played God of War. For him to know what it's like, he played the Werehog in Unleashed, and sees it easier to perform and for him to like. That's what he was saying, atleast that's what I got from him.

Edited May 24, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

You never cease to stretch things, do you?

To expand on what he was saying, if you haven't played GoW at all, the Werehog is a good way to know what it's like. Being easier, it wouldn't be so frustrating (well, I'd argue with that part), but if you'll like the werehog, then you'll like GoW.

I love the way you think what you're doing is somehow not what you're accusing Solid SOAP of doing.

God of War has an easy mode, and it's pretty freaking easy. If you want to know what GoW is like, why exactly would you looks to a Sonic game for it?

And that last sentence gave me a whole new reason to hate the Werehog - That you could do that.

I don't see how the hell you got "not playing more enjoyable games" out of that.

And I don't see where he mentioned difficulty.

[SuperStingray]

God of War looks interesting, but I'm not a big Sony person and I don't have plans to buy a PlayStation any time soon, let alone specifically for it. Until that day comes, I'm perfectly fine with the Werehog.

Edited May 24, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Rusty Spy]

To expand on what he was saying, if you haven't played GoW at all, the Werehog is a good way to know what it's like. Being easier, it wouldn't be so frustrating (well, I'd argue with that part), but if you'll like the werehog, then you'll like GoW.

I don't see how the hell you got "not playing more enjoyable games" out of that.

But then again, people don't buy Sonic games to see if they'd like GoW. Just the same as how people don't play GTA to see if they'd like Mario Party. They buy Sonic games for Sonic, they buy GTA for GTA.

If they like the Werehog, all the power to them, but for those who don't, they're feeling ripped off playing a game where nearly half of it is not what they paid for.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I love the way you think what you're doing is somehow not what you're accusing Solid SOAP of doing.

Likewise, I love how you think you're really trying to get at me like you're doing here.

God of War has an easy mode, and it's pretty freaking easy.

...and I love how you didn't pay attention to any of the details. DarkDefeater specifically said he's never played GoW, now how is he suppose to know any parts of the game when he hasn't played it?

If you want to know what GoW is like, why exactly would you looks to a Sonic game for it?

Ask Darkdefeater, I was only trying to keep his words from being misinterpreted the wrong way.

And that last sentence gave me a whole new reason to hate the Werehog - That you could do that.

Glad to broaden your hate...

And I don't see where he mentioned difficulty.

"easier to accept and appreciate" seems to hint at difficulty the way I look at it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said much on it at all.

But then again, people don't buy Sonic games to see if they'd like GoW. Just the same as how people don't play GTA to see if they'd like Mario Party. They buy Sonic games for Sonic, they buy GTA for GTA.

I know that. But that's not what I was trying to say on my part.

If they like the Werehog, all the power to them, but for those who don't, they're feeling ripped off playing a game where nearly half of it is not what they paid for.

Now what about those who've never played it? That's whom Darkdefeater was addressing, not to those who have played it and felt more satisfied than the werehog.

Edited May 24, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

Likewise, I love how you think you're really trying to get at me like you're doing here. wink.gif

And I love you're grammar. What am I being accused of? Thinking I'm trying to get at you?

My point is, you're putting words into DarkDefeater's mouth.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And I love you're grammar.

Thanks, I try my best.

What am I being accused of? Thinking I'm trying to get at you?

So you weren't trying to embarrass me just then? (that's what I meant when I said you were trying to "get at me")

My fault then...

My point is, you're putting words into DarkDefeater's mouth.

If that's the way you see it.

What I thought I was trying to do is help broaden what he was trying to say without anyone trying to confuse or twist his words.

He can tell me if that was or what he wasn't trying to say and I'll accept it and move on, but either way you're not really doing much for DarkDefeater by simply calling me out and telling me that I'm putting words in his mouth.

Edited May 24, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Badnik Zero]

If they like the Werehog, all the power to them, but for those who don't, they're feeling ripped off playing a game where nearly half of it is not what they paid for.

Honestly though, if I'd never heard of the Werehog and I saw Unleashed's cover with a werewolf Sonic, my first reaction would be "WTF is this? They made him into a werewolf?" And then I'd flip it over and FIND OUT about the brawling.

I don't know who all these people are buying the game without at least even checking out the package. It's not a secret.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Badnikz

[DarkDefeater]

Intresting. I have started a debate. Heh.

I was not referring to difficulty. I simply wanted to say that since I've never played God of War, and likely never will, I find the Werehog easier to enjoy than I would otherwise.

I'm also not advocating avoiding better games just for the sake of enjoying Sonic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Intresting. I have started a debate. Heh.

Yes you have, you little devil you.

I was not referring to difficulty.

^Oh, see Phos? I was wrong on that part then. Not too much of a problem tho.

I'm also not advocating avoiding better games just for the sake of enjoying Sonic.

^But I was right on this part...Score: Phos-1 CSS-1.

...Okay, I'll stop joking around for a while.

Edited May 24, 2009 by ChaosSupremeSonic