Unpopular Sonic opinions!

May 29, 2012

It is a terrible dichotomy because it makes a lot of assumptions like:

1) Any Sonic game that does not include lengthening is inherently more fun than one that doesn't. Taking that to it's most logical conclusion, we can easily come to the conclusion that Sonic 4 Episode 1 is a more fun and (if fun is the ultimate goal of a game) a better video game overall than Sonic Generations because the latter has hubs and missions, and hubs and missions are unnecessary lengthening.

2) Any padding has to be boring or tedious. It simply does not. Fuck, if you give Knuckles a campaign, you're technically padding the game because it doesn't need Knuckles as a playable character to logically function, but no one talks shit about S3&K simply because Sega had the sheer audacity to include a character that isn't Sonic.

3) Sonic gameplay inherently cannot be lengthened through creative uses of its own principles. Only the tip of the iceberg has been explored when it comes to the idea of having a fast, acrobatic platform character use the environment to his advantage. There's a lot of things you can do with Sonic gameplay outside of what we've seen, and new things will be done in the future. To ignore this is silly.

May 29, 2012

- I think the chaotix should get their own spin off series.

Is it odd that I I was thinking the same think last night at 4 am? I could totally see a comical comic book style game with Sly Cooper elements in it for that (Just, you know, instead of stealing things...you get the idea). I mean, if the Raving Rabbids could survive as long as they did, I think a Chaotix series could do well, and, I'll be honest, it would be cool to see a story through a different set of eyes, and perhaps fighting a different villain? Either way, I like it.

While I'm at it...

-Honestly, I want SEGA to not only bring back Knuckles, but also bring back rapping levels. I know, I'm evil for that, but unlike most BOOTY BOOTY DRUG BANG BANG type rap you hear now on the radio, the rapping segments in Adventure 2 were awesome. Personally, I'd also like to hear a little bit of a colab, sort of like His World was, that integrates rapping with regular singing, and put them in levels too. (And I understand if some of you wouldn't want that, its just my opinion on the matter )

-I like boost more than spin dash, but I think it's a bit over powered. If they were to integrate the same boost gauge like they had in Unleashed Wii/PS2, then it would be more challenging. Otherwise, if people still wanted to bring back Spin Dash, they should bring back the skill menu and add that as a boost replacement.

-I found the Sonic and Chip cutscenes in Unleashed to be cute~ And I think that they should make another movie like Night of the Werehog )Although something with voices would be appreciated), but make it a collectible item that you have to find in game. That would be a challenge worth taking~

-I kind of think that it wouldn't hurt SEGA to change up Sonic's shoes in more than just Sonic Riders. That's why I liked Adventure 2's model, it was different. Now, it wouldn't necessarily HAVE to be the main design, but I think it'd be cool to make a feature that lets you swap certain features on a character (shoes, gloves, dresses, etc.).

-I think SEGA should bring back Classic Sonic, BUT, not part of the story. It would make fans happy if they could play as him in levels, there's no doubt about that, even if it would just be milking him, but instead of integrating him into the story, a DLC could be made to play him in pure 2D versions of in game levels. Now, is there any chance of that happening? Very very low But who knows.

May 29, 2012

First of all, great thread topic, as it gives light to the minority when comes to less mainstream opinions about the series.

here is mine:

-Genuinely enjoyed Sonic 3D blast and Sonic Labyrinth, and didn't find the perspective an issue nor disliked its different gameplay.

-I prefer the slower PAL 50Hz music over the NTSC 60Hz one, as when i play videogames i like to relax, and the more slow theme enhances the mood IMO.

-Loved Sonic 2 on GameGear, and didn't find it to hard. (Just had some cheap moments due to the small view field caused by the smaller screen resolution in comparison to MasterSystem version.)

I agree with this alot game gear games are underrated

May 30, 2012

As far as I can tell these are three assumptions you've made that you think it makes (wow that was a poorly constructed sentence but you get the point). I regard a "longer" Sonic game as one with a longer main story mode. Heck Sonic games have been offering additional post story mode content since forever. Playing additionally as say Knuckles in 3&K fits into this category, since you're just playing the same game as a different character but you can explore more routes. This is replayability, not core game length. The game's main story mode would be no less shorter if Knuckles wasn't playable there.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Nepenthe

May 30, 2012

-Despite the good homage it made for us and how much I like it, Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations was probably Sonic Team's way of throwing a bone to some whiny Classic Fans after Sonic 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otjanp9aXgw

Oh come on, I know SOME of you had to be thinking that.

Edited May 30, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

May 30, 2012

-Despite the good homage it made for us and how much I like it, Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations was probably Sonic Team's way of throwing a bone to some whiny Classic Fans after Sonic 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otjanp9aXgw

Oh come on, I know SOME of you had to be thinking that.

May 30, 2012

If Sonic Team added in Classic Sonic due to the negative response to the modern design in 4, then they are fast developers and need to make longer games only taking a year to add him in completely. I think it's more likely he was planned at the outset and the marketing cycle just happened to coincide with people losing their minds over the new design.

May 30, 2012

So you scale down the speed. OK, say Sonic's top speed when not boosting. That seems reasonable to me. Now what. Deeper and denser levels still require lots of time, but in different ways. Unlike say, Unleashed, the levels then can be shorter in terms of total length, but then you'd need to fill it out sideways. You'll need much more lateral level design. Now instead of having a lot of geometry that exists purely to look pretty, that same area will need to be filled with actual level design and interactable stage geometry instead.

Well I'm basically saying "remove the boost entirely" and bring Sonic down to Adventure-esque speeds. Yes, making denser levels requires lots of time. I'm not talking about filling out levels sideways or filling cosmetic space with playable space. I really am proposing an overhaul of game mechanics so that they aren't making gigantic levels you spend two to five minutes in.

I don't know everything about game design, but I'm pretty sure it would take even longer to make a more densely packed and deeper stage. Not only do you need to model the additional geometry, but you need to add collision so Sonic can actually walk on it and interact with it. Then you have to get the game designers to design levels, which then need to be tested, then modified, then tested and so on, until they're happy with the result and its of sufficient quality.

So even if Sonic is slower, and the levels are slightly smaller in terms of physical size. The complexity and depth of the design will end up making the level just as long to make (if not longer) while being much harder to make in and of itself.

To be honest, even the more expansive stages in Generations weren't that wide. Wider than Unleashed, but that's not saying much. In order to add the depth and complexity we all so desperately want, you're going to need to expand laterally. The lateral expansion will compensate (in terms of workload) for the longitudinal contraction. Instead of a long, thin set of spaghetti, you'll have a shorter, but wider interactable space, which in the end, will probably end up needing just as much work.

I'm not even proposing a lateral expansion. I'm proposing less straightaways and stuff you won't even be looking at and more platforming. Just give the player more to do. Obviously it would take some thought and time, but it's usually the same case with the cosmetic stuff.

Also I don't know how asking developers to do stuff that requires their thought and time is a bad thing.

Yeah, well stuff they've designed to just look pretty won't often work properly. Once that extra space is a part of the level, they'll have to do additional bug testing.

sega does bug testing?

Mario isn't Sonic. Mario adapted by doing things the SMB3 way. Having a lot of fairly small stages, each with numerous objectives within them (i.e power stars). 3D Mario ends up with a completely different design philosophy to 2D Mario.

I honestly don't see this as an excuse to not try and evolve the formula and get more out of a game. Then again I'm not particularly concerned with upholding tradition in that regard. Like Mario, they can still make something different great.

Honestly, does it need to be much longer than that? 7 hours seems the best to me.
Besides, how many 3-6 minute long acts (7 mins max), 2-4 minute long Generations-style bonus stages, 3-6 minute long bosses, will be needed to form a 10 hour Sonic game on content alone.

Nobody every said it was bad. My question is, how long does a Sonic game need to be, based on content alone? What is reasonable development time to achieve such a result?

Honestly 7-10 hours sounds good to me. I think a reasonable development time is a couple of years.

Here's a question: How much development time is SEGA putting into games with their current system vs. the actual lengths of the games they're producing?

But ignoring all of this, while we can rationalize WHY the games are so short, it really doesn't make a three hour game acceptable in my eyes when other developers are giving more for their money. I loved Generations but I feel like its length was justified by its lower price point- to an extent anyway. That and it was massively replayable, which believe it or not DOES matter to me, but it won't for a lot of people and SEGA should acknowledge that.

May 30, 2012

I think that lots of people kinda thought that. Sonic team also probably wanted to one up dimps after the flaming they got.

Not in terms of design. Gameplay. My bet is that Classic sonic was probably not that fine tuned before S4's flaming. They probably fixed a few issues to make it better than S4. at least, that's my assumption. Edited May 30, 2012 by Sora

May 30, 2012

-Despite the good homage it made for us and how much I like it, Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations was probably Sonic Team's way of throwing a bone to some whiny Classic Fans after Sonic 4

*hilarious egoraptor clip*

Oh come on, I know SOME of you had to be thinking that.

That's not an opinion, that's common sense.

May 30, 2012

Another unpopular opinion: the thing about Sonic, second only to his speed, is his "cool" factor. By today's standards, he is NOT cool anymore. In fact, I get made fun of a lot for liking Sonic, if not for the bad rep that SEGA provided through the poor performance in today's titles (by today's standards - I am relatively easy to please, otherwise I would not be here), then because his character is just... I hate to say it, but cheesy.

I think Sonic Team tries too hard to make Sonic cool that they forgot that "cool" is constantly changing. Sonic CAN be cool again, but he needs to mature a little. I expect a lot of heat from this last statement, but it's in this thread so...

Edited May 30, 2012 by tenchibr

May 30, 2012

Sonic has always been cheesy to me and that's what I love about him. People say that Sonic Team tries too hard to make Sonic cool but most games I think they're not trying hard enough.

Edited May 30, 2012 by sonfan1984

May 30, 2012

I think Sonic Team tries too hard to make Sonic cool that they forgot that "cool" is constantly changing. Sonic CAN be cool again, but he needs to mature a little. I expect a lot of heat from this last statement, but it's in this thread so...

Maybe he needs a slight character change: From Cool to Adorkably Cool maybe?

OR...

He could still act like a "Cool" character from the 90s, but have the other characters around him face palm, bury their faces, and generally just be embarrassed by his out of date sense of cool. And to add to this, he is the only one who doesn't realize this, and thus, keeps wondering why everyone is so embarrassed.

May 30, 2012

Maybe he needs a slight character change: From Cool to Adorkably Cool maybe?

OR...

He could still act like a "Cool" character from the 90s, but have the other characters around him face palm, bury their faces, and generally just be embarrassed by his out of date sense of cool. And to add to this, he is the only one who doesn't realize this, and thus, keeps wondering why everyone is so embarrassed.

Colours had a little bit of this, particularly that cutscene with him talking to the robot and Tails catching him in on the act. Although, he recognized that it was embarrassing.

...Honestly though, and this might sound cheesy, but I think I'd find that kind of Sonic genuinely cool. Acting how he wants to act and not really caring/noticing what others think about him.

May 30, 2012

Eh...same stuff I said in that other thread and then some

Nothing about Sonic 3 appeals to me

I liked Sonic Heroes and Secret rings (even if the controls were finicky and bad)

I dont mind Big

I don't like SA2

Modern Sonic stages are more enjoyable in Generations

I don't mind the werehog

*shrugs* I'll just be...uh...hiding behind this knocked over table over here...

May 30, 2012

I love Sonic 4, especially episode II. That's my unpopular opinion. The games may have their flaws, but I have a blast with them.

May 30, 2012

Hmm. Actually, I change my mind on the boost. I like it in Unleashed and Colors, but dislike it in Generations. I think I had more fun in a non-boost run as opposed to a boost run through the levels.

May 30, 2012

Colours had a little bit of this, particularly that cutscene with him talking to the robot and Tails catching him in on the act. Although, he recognized that it was embarrassing.

...Honestly though, and this might sound cheesy, but I think I'd find that kind of Sonic genuinely cool. Acting how he wants to act and not really caring/noticing what others think about him.

That character already exists in a game called Street Fighter, and his name is Dan. Ask Capcom how he's doing.

Edited May 30, 2012 by tenchibr

May 30, 2012

Today's definition cool can be summed up with one word: "Badass", its basically the only way people see "cool" characters, so if Sonic needs to be cool, he needs to be a bigger badass.

May 30, 2012

Today's definition cool can be summed up with one word: "Badass", its basically the only way people see "cool" characters, so if Sonic needs to be cool, he needs to be a bigger badass.

To be honest, '06 had the perfect tone for a Sonic game that could have shown his mature side. It was horrendously executed however.

Silver's story and atmosphere is the kind that Sonic should have gone through, I mean... Sonic has everything working out for him in the end; in fact, the retcon ending made it so any kind of maturity that he could have acquired goes away, and he goes back to his carefree, as-long-as-I-don't-see-it-it-doesn't-hurt-me personality.

I want to see a game where Sonic loses early on, kind of like Unleashed... And he has to rediscover his life's purpose, that there's more to just beating Eggman. I want to see a game where Eggman puts Sonic in a position where he has to choose between his friends and losing his speed forever. And Sonic chooses his friends, which brings out a redemption in him that allows him to save them and keep his power.

What I mean is Sonic takes his speed for granted, and he needs to learn to respect others that don't have it, INCLUDING AMY. And Unleashed's curse on him doesn't count because he had the daytime still. No, I want to see a cutscene where he watches kids play tag and he cannot keep up with them, and it really hurts him. And then after the game is done, he plays with the kids at THEIR pace, not like in the Archie Comics where he's like "Sonic dribbles, passes to Sonic, who passes to Sonic, and Sonic scores!"

Edited May 30, 2012 by tenchibr

May 30, 2012

Sonic is the most boring character to play in S3&K and the Advance series because of the fact that

Amy but at least her playstyle was unique and challenging for experienced Sonic players).

May 30, 2012

Sonic is the most boring character to play in S3&K and the Advance series because of the fact that

Amy but at least her playstyle was unique and challenging for experienced Sonic players).

Sonic is pretty much the vanilla character of that series.

May 30, 2012

Wow, this topic is big. I kinda feel I'm losing touch with Sonic, but IIRC, my most controversial statements have always been:

*Sonic X is the worst animated Sonic program by a great longshot. For every misstep that AoStH, StH or even SU took, Sonic X took three. Then it had the gall to infect the games for five years.

*Sonic 2006 is not the worst Sonic game ever made. That honor squarely goes to Secret Rings. In fact, everything about storybook is bad except for Sonic's super modes.

*The game most deserving of the title "Sonic Adventure 3" is not Sonic 2006, but in fact Sonic Unleashed. 06 lost this due to being a poor copy of SA1 and not making a single advancement, and Unleashed earned this by making the same amount of changes that SA2 did.

*Blaze the Cat is the single most overrated character in the series. She's ok, but she's not the greatest character since Knuckles that she's made out to be.

*The Rivals games are vastly superior to the Rush games. In fact, the only redeeming thing about either of the Rush games is the soundtrack of the first one.

*Sonic Free Riders is actually a really good game. Granted, it requires you to set up your Kinect properly, but mastering that game and unlocking Super Sonic was the greatest Sonic victory I had since killing the Biolizard. Man, it felt GOOD.

I think that's it.

EDIT: Wait, I got one more. Werehog was the best part of Unleashed by FAR. Day Sonic was an uncontrollable train wreck at the time. Thankfully, Colors and Generations remedied this, and with style.

EDIT: One mooooooooore thing! Alt. media characters should be fair game when it comes to being secret and non canon characters in the games. There is no legitimate reason that I should not be able to play as Scourge in something like Sonic Riders or Sonic Rivals. I'd very much enjoy a Sonic/Scourge/Metal Sonic/Shadow race/battle.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Aquaslash

May 30, 2012

.EDIT: Wait, I got one more. Werehog was the best part of Unleashed by FAR. Day Sonic was an uncontrollable train wreck at the time. Thankfully, Colors and Generations remedied this, and with style.

Sure, if you're not very good at the game.

May 30, 2012

Sonic Rush Adventure was great and successive 3/DS Sonics should have built off it rather than gradually dropping features (3d cutscenes, tricks) and becoming more primitive.

Unpopular Sonic opinions!

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