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Sonic Adventure 2 Discussion, Speculation, Media Topic

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Yet the idiotic design decisions employed by the Adventure games proved to be more detrimental to the series as a whole than actually good. If the Adventure games didn't make us fish as Big the Cat, shoot robots as Tails, or glide around aimlessly as Knuckles, I'd imagine the series would actually be GASP! - respectable.

Ironically enough, Sa2 is still regarded as the last good Sonic game.

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Ironically enough, Sa2 is still regarded as the last good Sonic game.

I'd say it's the last good 3-D Sonic game before Colors. :V

Also, some seem to be arguing that SA1 and SA2 sucked even at the time and that lower standards were the only reason why they got away with good scores? Honestly, I'm not sure I buy that. Didn't good reviews at the time actually compliment the alternate gameplay styles and such? Few negative opinions from gaming journalism websites even mention them anyway, usually just harping on "HERP DERP SANICZ FRENZ" as if the characters themselves were the problem. Really, I think that the quality of the play styles themselves is pretty "YMMV" anyway; personally, I enjoy the mech shooting and treasure hunting plenty, even if they're a bit out of place. And, of course, if you hated the genre roulette, the games did still have plenty to love besides the (at the time) beautiful visuals: the speed stages of both games were almost unanimously praised, and both games had the Chao Gardens and plenty of replay value. Hype, HOLY SHIZZ THREE DEE and OMG LOOK AT DEM GREEFIX might have had something to do with the good critical reception, but those really couldn't have been the only reasons.

And not to come off as one of those "HERPADERP OPINYIN NAWT FAKT" posts, buuuut I do think the way people are saying it implies a bit more objectivity (OH SNAP WE'RE GOIN' INTO "O"-CARD TERRITORY HERE) than can really be applied to the statement. There are definitely legitimate arguments for it and I'd say both games have some objective faults, but I think that to say that both games objectively sucked even for their time (although that may not quite be what you mean) is probably going a bit far...but that's just me.

Anyway, on the subject of the port itself, since I haven't brought it up yet: Meh. Probably won't be getting it, since I'm perfectly happy with the Dreamcast version. But hey, it's nice that they're making it, I guess. Hopefully it won't completely suck like the XBLA/PSN port of SA. Of course, it will probably get soul-destroyingly scathing reviews anyway :I

So yeah d:

Edited by T-Bert Fizzlewut

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You've pointed out the issue yourself, though;

Really, I think that the quality of the play styles themselves is pretty "YMMV" anyway;

While I'd never be ignorant enough to pass off my own contempt for the alternate playstyles in Sonic Adventure 2 as objective fact, I will stand by my stance that the very concept of genre roulette is an objective flaw.

The reason less and less people seem to be liking Sonic Adventure 2 isn't because of some inane bias against the game; it's because it has legitimate flaws that are far more noticeable now that standards have increased.

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The reason less and less people seem to be liking Sonic Adventure 2 isn't because of some inane bias against the game; it's because it has legitimate flaws that are far more noticeable now that standards have increased.

As I have acknowledged myself, but I was just pointing out that there were legitimate reasons to love them at the time (and I would argue even now), as well. I believe that saying "they sucked from the get-go" is a bit much. Standards were only raised because better games came out; at the time, this was considered cutting edge.

And about "inane bias", you've got to keep in mind, I was primarily referring to gaming journalists. :U And, in that case, it likely wouldn't be bias against this one game, but rather the franchise as a whole (or at least, the periphery cast). I certainly don't believe that the reason more and more fans seem to be disliking them is because of bias. Good Lord, even mentioning "bias" in a discussion about SA2 brings back memories of a certain other forum...

Edited by T-Bert Fizzlewut

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Wow, what the hell happend here? I dont check the thread for a day or two and all im seeing now is pages of "the adventure series sucks". What ever happend to just having fun and enjoying the games, thats what i do and i hardly run into any glitches.

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Wow, what the hell happend here? I dont check the thread for a day or two and all im seeing now is pages of "the adventure series sucks". What ever happend to just having fun and enjoying the games, thats what i do and i hardly run into any glitches.

I can't do that if they suck.

I seriously don't get this argument. Do you honestly think I buy video games with the intent of hating them?

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Wow, what the hell happend here? I dont check the thread for a day or two and all im seeing now is pages of "the adventure series sucks". What ever happend to just having fun and enjoying the games, thats what i do and i hardly run into any glitches.

In addition to what Desudash (lol) said, couldn't this logic be applied to ANY game a lot of people happen to dislike? Not to mention that you're basically stating that no discussion on the quality of the games or expression of a negative opinion thereof should be taking place here. Why not, might I ask?

Edited by T-Bert Fizzlewut

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Personally, the Adventure games are guilty pleasures, not good games, to me. Much like my opinion of Sonic Unleashed. I had an issue with the genre roulette when I first played them, and I have an issue with the genre roulette now. Sonic's gameplay in the first Adventure had a lot going for it, and it could have evolved into something amazing. Spoiler alert: It didn't.

SA2 is regarded as the last good Sonic game? That actually seems to depend on your age group. I'm 21. I have a few friends who are older than me and Sonic & Knuckles is pretty much regarded the last good game to them. Some of my friends who are my age feel the same way, and some others like the games up until SA2, admittedly mostly for the Chao Gardens, which seem more popular than Sonic itself among these friends. I have some brothers a few years younger than me and their friends think I'm insane for playing Colors and Generations but not thinking highly of SA2. And then I have a much younger brother, whose twelve-year-old friend says Sonic Unleashed was the last good Sonic game. And he played it on Wii! (Hint: He never actually touched any games after Unleashed. Do you see a pattern here?) It honestly just looks to me like people just jump on the "new Sonic games suck lol" bandwagon as they get older. It's mostly in the nostalgia. Someday we'll have people claiming Generations or even the next Sonic game was the "last good Sonic game."

Since Pokémon seems really popular here (with Pokémon Week and all), I think an example from that series might make a good comparison. It's similar to the "Generation x was the last good Pokémon generation, after that they stopped looking like Pokémon" comments, with x being a variable depending mostly on the person's age. Because a pile of purple sludge and six eggs with faces are definitely good designs. But now I'm getting off-topic.

tl;dr adventure games and nostalgia and exeggcute suck and that's all my opinion and doesn't necessarily have to be yours

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Sonic Adventure wasn't nearly as influential or ground-breaking as Doom.

And ironically, you mentioned earlier that today's standards are measured on First Person Shooters, like Call of Duty. Doom was more ground-breaking than Sonic Adventure, that I agree, but to say that today's FPS represent the best our generation has to offer is, although true, really unsatisfying.

P.S.: I believe Sonic Adventure has aged better than Doom. Bite me.

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And ironically, you mentioned earlier that today's standards are measured on First Person Shooters, like Call of Duty. Doom was more ground-breaking than Sonic Adventure, that I agree, but to say that today's FPS represent the best our generation has to offer is, although true, really unsatisfying.

I never said anything of the sort. I'm merely pointing out several reasons as to why the games were so praised at the time; as far as platformers go, they were unprecedented in visual quality and story presentation, and they were the first Sonic games we'd seen after a massive hiatus.

P.S.: I believe Sonic Adventure has aged better than Doom. Bite me.

Fascinating.

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The only reason why SEGA is keeping this mum in my opinion is because the game is probably being worked on, and by that, I mean all those quirks we have talked here.

I expect something like the character's dialogue will be fixed, like timing and such, maybe because one of us (myself included) suggested it. And maybe they meant to announce it earlier on, but with the amount of passion we are giving over it, they will be careful, especially after the disappointment Sonic 4: Episode II turned out to be.

Mind you, the disappointment I mention is on their part, based on the customer/critic reactions that the game got. I am sure they were happy with it but will try a little harder with this upcoming title.

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Opinions are opinions, but I'm not sure it's fair to say a game sucks because it hasn't aged well. A lot of games don't age well, but they were still good...at their time of release. Like....Pong. GREAT game when it was released. Nobody would ever play it now. And yeah, I know...it's an exaggeration. SA2 isn't as important or good for it's time, I'm just talking general principle

I do agree with you here. I don't think it is really fair to compare a game in the earlier days of 3D (in this case 2001, or for SA1's case, 1999) to 2012 standards, since games have advanced a LOT.

But there was NO excuse to put fishing in SA1. EVER.

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Damn, I like SA2 and even I gotta admit it's aged like Crap. If the game came out today it would probably be my most hated Sonic game (better graphics or not)

The only reason why SEGA is keeping this mum in my opinion is because the game is probably being worked on, and by that, I mean all those quirks we have talked here.

After that garbage they tried to sell as an SA port, I wouldn't be surprised.

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And I think they want to annouce it on Sonic Boom. I mean Sonic Boom is in LA and SA2 city is based on LA. And since Sonic Boom is organised fully by SEGA something like this might happen. I mean we got ASRT character annoucement durning SOS so it's possible.

Edited by HUNTER297

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And I think they want to annouce it on Sonic Boom. I mean Sonic Boom is in LA and SA2 city is based on LA.

Really? I thought SA2 city is based on San Francisco.

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P.S.: I believe Sonic Adventure has aged better than Doom. Bite me.

Not quite the nice rebuttal there, brogino.

Sonic adventure has aged better, but a classic like Doom can be put down so easily. True I played Doom a little while after I played the Sonic Adventure games, but I have to say Doom gets better every time I play it. The Sonic adventure games on the other hand, kinda don't.

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Got a question for people at Summer of Sonic: Could the footage playing on the screens whilst Jun was playing Metal Harbor have been from SA2 HD? It looked like it could have been to me. :S

Edited by The Hoenn Kid

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