Sonic Adventure 2 Discussion, Speculation, Media Topic

[Stritix]

Yeah. 20 minutes after he asked you how many bugs they fixed, and 20 minutes and a month after the last time he asked you how many bugs they fixed.

Sorry, but that doesn't change how incorrect your statement was. You can't claim I hadn't bothered this time when all it was is 20 minutes.

I'll make this simple for you: You don't have a leg to stand on in regards to credibility for what Sega might or might not have done for this port. So when someone asks a question about whether the port is worth buying and you repeat something you said in the past but refused to back up, all sorts of alarm bells go off (particularly when you act all offended that someone questioned what you were saying); and pointing out that you still hadn't bothered to actually quantify the assertion you were making is no great sin. Particularly not considering the member.

I don't see how you have a leg to stand on here either. An overview of the situation: I made a statement, was questioned, gave one example, come back and was questioned again, and gave another few examples. I'm failing to see how that is wrong. You're really grasping at straws for the sake of it.

Edit: There's no point in dragging it out into something it doesn't need to be, and I honestly don't care to continue this. There's not much more that can be said. Let's simply agree to disagree and draw the line.

Edited November 5, 2012 by -L-

[Tornado]

Sorry, but that doesn't change how incorrect your statement was. You can't claim I hadn't bothered this time when all it was is 20 minutes.

Because you hadn't. You repeated a claim you refused to back up when you first made it nearly a month ago, you didn't explain it when you reasserted it the first time (instead deciding to get defensive because someone who had already questioned you was questioning you again), and then when two people questioned you you finally backed it up.

I don't see how you have a leg to stand on here either. An overview of the situation: I made a statement, was questioned, gave one example, come back and was questioned again, and gave another few examples. I'm failing to see how that is wrong. You're really grasping at straws for the sake of it.

A larger overview of the situation: You make many statements of fact since the starting of this thread, any one of which (for whatever reason) has a 50:50 chance of actually being true when examined. Someone who is therefore naturally less inclined to believe what you are saying sees you make another statement of fact, one that you in fact made and were questioned about before, and questions you on it; and you get defensive and complain that they questioned you rather than answer their question. They ask again, and I seeing a situation that looks highly familiar, comment on that familiarity. You finally answer the question, then end your answer with a snotty dig at those who were asking you ("May I continue?"), which is responded to in kind ("Yes, by all means back up your statements when you make them.").

And unless there was a subtext that I misread (which I'm doubtful of, because, again, posting history of this thread), I'm not seeing why telling you to back up the statements you make warrants personal attacks from you ("Is there a need to be so petty?").

Edited November 5, 2012 by Tornado

[Stritix]

Sorry for such a short reply, but I lost my actual post due to an accidental restart. Here's the just of it:

Because you hadn't. You repeated a claim you refused to back up when you first made it nearly a month ago, you didn't explain it when you reasserted it the first time (instead deciding to get defensive because someone who had already questioned you was questioning you again), and then when two people questioned you you finally backed it up.

You are still missing the point. This isn't whatever happened a month ago. This is now. And I suggest you read over it, because at first I was not questioned. My post was edited and I willingly went into detail and gave an example of the bug fixes, which then had led into being questioned that I then proceeded to answer. It was 20 minutes between yours and his post. You cannot say I hadn't bothered this time. If it was a day or so, I'd understand where you were coming from, but it was 20 minutes. You don't have a leg to stand on. I already asked you for us to drop this and agree to disagree, but you apparently refuse to do so.

And unless there was a subtext that I misread (which I'm doubtful of, because, again, posting history of this thread), I'm not seeing why telling you to back up the statements you make warrants personal attacks from you

Personal attacks to you? Such as? The only thing that has any resemblance is when I used the word "petty" towards a statement you made. Apart from that, you must be looking into what isn't there.

And again, it was a brief statement that wasn't supposed to be backed up with information at the time, however I gave several examples when questioned.

The whole point of my post was to give brief information on what they did with the port in response to someone who was questioning if he should buy it. I did give one example of a bug fix. Listing more would destroy the whole point of it being brief, as I would also have to list several examples for the others. And my intention of the post isn't to analyse the game.

[Jango]

I feel somehow guilty for this ;__;

[Badnik Mechanic]

Widescreen, graphic updates, HD, bug fixes. It's the best version of the game for sure, and one of SEGA's best ports so far. However it's not that much of a jump from the Gamecube version.

I can't disagree with this more.

Widescreen. What part of the game are we talking about? Do the stages play without that blue border that Sonic Adventure has? Well yes, but it still has problems with the widescreen. Some cut scenes fit the widescreen/super huge telly's we've got, but then they'll randomly drop to size, often theres no reasonable explanation for this. Whilst I can understand the CG sequences being at a smaller size, how come the City Escape opening sequence can be at widescreen, but later on similar cut scenes are at the smaller size?

Constantly it feels like it drops in and out, it gives the impression that the game is unfinished and that the port was lazy even though some effort was made.

What bug fixes they did do were hardly the important ones or the ones to fix annoyances. For instance, theres still problems with the homing attack at parts. Amazingly that fighter jet still gets stuck on Radical Highway which means we have that constant jet engine sound effect.

Not to mention this port removes content (the chao transporter is now a suicide booth), whilst I hate chao raising/gardens, it means that now players are forced to spend ages replaying this bloody thing even though a lot likely have perfectly well chaos in their SA 1 save file... my question... Why on earth was there not this machine in the chao garden.

"Import SA 1 chao data machine"

Don't tell me that can't be done. I could name tons of games that allow you to import data from previous titles to the newest instalment. No I'm not talking about the stuff that says 'save data detected for XXX' actual importing the data you had on the SA 1 save file to the SA 2 chao garden.

No online mode.

Now... I would hate online for this, but at the same time, I'm not stupid. Whilst I have the Battle DLC, I only have that because of the Sega forums competition, it was included with my prize. However, had I not got it, I wouldn't buy it. It's basically multiplayer mode... oh wait... local multiplayer mode for a price... what? You have to pay extra for local multiplayer...?

But it's crazy, you have these multiplayer modes, whilst they're totally broken when it comes to balance, you can't use them online? And thats without even bringing in the chao garden (ugh) possabilities.

No Online Leaderboards... hmm what was that? Oh it has online leaderboards? Right... so let me ask you something... why does it take about half and hour just to load up one board? All the stages and modes are not even listen, most of the time the game doesn't update your time/score and it's just so difficult to navigate.

Whilst I don't hate the port, to say it's one of the the best ever is downright wrong. Taking out the chao importer machine despite the fact theres no reason to do this instantly lowers it because it's such a huge content removal and changes a large aspect of the game. The problems that needed to be fixed havn't been. Audio levels are still completely broken, half the time you can't hear the dialogue because of background SFX and music being so high.

[Stritix]

I can't disagree with this more.

Widescreen. What part of the game are we talking about? Do the stages play without that blue border that Sonic Adventure has? Well yes, but it still has problems with the widescreen. Some cut scenes fit the widescreen/super huge telly's we've got, but then they'll randomly drop to size, often theres no reasonable explanation for this. Whilst I can understand the CG sequences being at a smaller size, how come the City Escape opening sequence can be at widescreen, but later on similar cut scenes are at the smaller size?

Constantly it feels like it drops in and out, it gives the impression that the game is unfinished and that the port was lazy even though some effort was made.

What bug fixes they did do were hardly the important ones or the ones to fix annoyances. For instance, theres still problems with the homing attack at parts. Amazingly that fighter jet still gets stuck on Radical Highway which means we have that constant jet engine sound effect.

Yes. There are no major changes. There are improvements made, but still nothing major. It's simply a HD port with improvements made. They are currently working on a patch to fix more issues, and are listening to the users complaints. The sound level issues are apparently going to be fixed (Look about 10 pages back, and someone talked about their conversation with SEGA).

Not to mention this port removes content (the chao transporter is now a suicide booth), whilst I hate chao raising/gardens, it means that now players are forced to spend ages replaying this bloody thing even though a lot likely have perfectly well chaos in their SA 1 save file... my question... Why on earth was there not this machine in the chao garden.

"Import SA 1 chao data machine"

Don't tell me that can't be done. I could name tons of games that allow you to import data from previous titles to the newest instalment. No I'm not talking about the stuff that says 'save data detected for XXX' actual importing the data you had on the SA 1 save file to the SA 2 chao garden.

I agree. Unless there were technical issues there (Which I doubt), there's no reason for them not doing it.

No online mode.

Now... I would hate online for this, but at the same time, I'm not stupid. Whilst I have the Battle DLC, I only have that because of the Sega forums competition, it was included with my prize. However, had I not got it, I wouldn't buy it. It's basically multiplayer mode... oh wait... local multiplayer mode for a price... what? You have to pay extra for local multiplayer...?

But it's crazy, you have these multiplayer modes, whilst they're totally broken when it comes to balance, you can't use them online? And thats without even bringing in the chao garden (ugh) possabilities.

Yes. There's no online multiplayer. Do you know how difficult and time consuming that is to code into the game? That's going out of bounds for something that is supposed to be a quick HD port.

No Online Leaderboards... hmm what was that? Oh it has online leaderboards? Right... so let me ask you something... why does it take about half and hour just to load up one board? All the stages and modes are not even listen, most of the time the game doesn't update your time/score and it's just so difficult to navigate.

The online leaderboards loaded up within a few seconds for me. I suppose it's your connection? I don't have any issues there.

Whilst I don't hate the port, to say it's one of the the best ever is downright wrong. Taking out the chao importer machine despite the fact theres no reason to do this instantly lowers it because it's such a huge content removal and changes a large aspect of the game. The problems that needed to be fixed havn't been. Audio levels are still completely broken, half the time you can't hear the dialogue because of background SFX and music being so high.

I didn't say "The best ever". I was referring to their best ports digitally. I can't think of too many that are better. Sonic CD 2011, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi. Not sure what else. It does certainly blow the Sonic Adventure (2010) port out of the water. All they did with that was put new graphical filters over the PC version.

[SilJeff]

I finally sat down and played long enough and unlocked that "behind the scenes" video.

NiGHTS' was more interesting, but I didn't find SA2's all that bad.

[Shane]

So yesterday I tried out the port in 4:3 mode on my TV. The map screen looks absolutely horrendous. There's a huge purple void covering part of the ARK. The left side of Earth's map has a lot of useless space yet the right side of it is cut off. The panning looks even worse than in 16:9 mode.

I know none of this affects gameplay but this is so lazy and it leads me to wonder if the tiny bit of the ARK that is cut off in 16:9 mode should actually be there.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Yes. There's no online multiplayer. Do you know how difficult and time consuming that is to code into the game? That's going out of bounds for something that is supposed to be a quick HD port.

Yes I do, which only makes it all the more outrageous that the multiplayer content is paid for DLC.

The online leaderboards loaded up within a few seconds for me. I suppose it's your connection? I don't have any issues there.

My connection is perfectly fine, the leaderbords are badly design and you have to load up every one of them just to find the one you want.

I didn't say "The best ever".

Yes you did.

Widescreen, graphic updates, HD, bug fixes. It's the best version of the game for sure, and one of SEGA's best ports so far. However it's not that much of a jump from the Gamecube version.

I even quoted you saying that in the last post I made.

[Stritix]

Yes I do, which only makes it all the more outrageous that the multiplayer content is paid for DLC.

The way I see it, is the stand alone game has the design & content of the original, whereas with added Battle DLC it changes the design & adds content of the Gamecube version. It makes sense from a business standpoint.

My connection is perfectly fine, the leaderbords are badly design and you have to load up every one of them just to find the one you want.

I don't like the way they designed them either, but I don't have any issues loading them up.

Yes you did.

No I didn't. That was the 'best' out of the versions of Sonic Adventure 2. Not SEGA's porting of all time.

Edited November 8, 2012 by -L-

[Badnik Mechanic]

No I didn't. That was the 'best' out of the versions of Sonic Adventure 2. Not SEGA's porting of all time.

It's the best version of the game for sure, and one of SEGA's best ports so far.

Who are you trying to fool with this?

I cite everything I said in my original post, it's not the best version of the game by a long shot. It's not one of the best ports they've done either since theres content cut from it, charges placed on content which adds nothing of any significant value to the game since it lacks the modern update it so desperately needed to make it actually have any value and the annoying problems of the orginal still remain.

The 'updated HD' sales angle falls as well when constantly the game drops from the widescreen support to the squashed picture setting that we had with the SA PS360 port, the only difference is we don't have a blue border now.

[JezMM]

Widescreen. What part of the game are we talking about? Do the stages play without that blue border that Sonic Adventure has? Well yes, but it still has problems with the widescreen. Some cut scenes fit the widescreen/super huge telly's we've got, but then they'll randomly drop to size, often theres no reasonable explanation for this. Whilst I can understand the CG sequences being at a smaller size, how come the City Escape opening sequence can be at widescreen, but later on similar cut scenes are at the smaller size?

Just to cover this one, it's already been established that the back and forth between 4:3 and 16:9 on cut-scenes is due to some cut-scenes having ugly stuff just off-camera. Characters who stop animating the INSTANT they're out of sight etc. Even the City Escape cut-scene isn't perfect - you can see the edge of the map at one point. Also all cut-scenes with 2D overlays such as Gerald's diary and the explosions in Iron Gate's intro, were only drawn to fill 4:3 so they'd be cut-off at the edges.

Should they have rebuilt these cut-scenes and graphics to fit widescreen? Of course. Did they have the budget and manpower to do so? Now that's quite a different answer I'm sure.

(Personally I kinda wish they had just done ALL the cut-scenes in 4:3 so at least they'd be consistent).

Edited November 8, 2012 by JezMM

[Stritix]

Who are you trying to fool with this?

Why did you miss this?

I didn't say "The best ever". I was referring to their best ports digitally. I can't think of too many that are better. Sonic CD 2011, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi.

I cite everything I said in my original post, it's not the best version of the game by a long shot. It's not one of the best ports they've done either since theres content cut from it, charges placed on content which adds nothing of any significant value to the game since it lacks the modern update it so desperately needed to make it actually have any value and the annoying problems of the orginal still remain. The 'updated HD' sales angle falls as well when constantly the game drops from the widescreen support to the squashed picture setting that we had with the SA PS360 port, the only difference is we don't have a blue border now.

There's content cut? Apart from limiting the VMU machine and making the Battle add on DLC, nothing has been cut as far as I'm aware. I don't understand how the Dreamcast or Gamecube version could be better when they are the same thing except with more bugs, and are less pretty. The only time it switches to 4:3 is for certain cutscenes. Everything else is 16:9.

[Komodin]

Anyway... what's this talk about a patch? They're actually gonna fix the sound issues with it, or what?

[TheOcelot]

Anyway... what's this talk about a patch? They're actually gonna fix the sound issues with it, or what?

Yeah, apparently. Here is the TSSZ article:

"Sega Europe Customer Service at Work

Our friend Ashthedragon from Sonic Paradise Tweeted TSSZ today to tell us about a letter received by a fan concerning Sonic Adventure 2‘s sound problems and glitches. The correspondence indicates a patch is in the works.

The report on Sonic Paradise cites an E-Mail sent to scener Franniku in response to a question of whether Sega would fix these issues. Loosely translated, it appears so:

“Thank you for your email.

We regret having audio problems with the product, also informed him that we have sent this issue to the product developers and apparently already aware of this problem, we report that they are working on it and as soon as I have solved it will launch a automatic update.

If we have any further information we will contact you.

Attentively

Sega Europe Ltd. “

No timetable was given for the release."

http://www.tssznews....-to-be-patched/

Edited November 8, 2012 by NightwingFox

[Shane]

Just following up on my last post with a video. As you can see, the edits to the map screen to make it work in 16:9 are still applied when playing in 4:3. There is extra stuff to the left that wasn't in the original releases, and the end of the desert to the right is cut off. In addition to this, about a quarter of the screen with the ARK is covered in a large purple void and it looks awful. I realize barely anyone plays in 4:3, but the fact that something doesn't work properly here when it worked fine eleven years and two generations ago is just embarrassing.

One of SEGA's best ports? That very suggestion makes me laugh.

Edited November 8, 2012 by XD375

[Tornado]

One of SEGA's best ports? That very suggestion makes me laugh.

Best ports digitally. So, you know, as long as you ignore Daytona, JSR, NiGHTS and Sonic CD (and probably all of the games in the Model 2 Collection, from what we've seen).

Which basically leaves... Adventure DX and maybe Crazy Taxi (assuming you don't want to bother with the custom soundtrack option in the latter)?

Yes. There's no online multiplayer. Do you know how difficult and time consuming that is to code into the game? That's going out of bounds for something that is supposed to be a quick HD port.

So the Daytona USA port can have it. The Model 2 Collection games can all have it. But the game where you pay extra for the multiplayer content can't have it, because it's too hard and takes too long?

Edited November 9, 2012 by Tornado

[Cortez]

Urghhh why are SEGA so half assed at digitally porting things anyway? I know they're making these ports purely to make some quick cash but come on... SA to SADX and SA2 to SA2B at least had new features to warrant buying the goddam game again if you already owned it.

I understand that they obviously aren't going to give a digital download port anywhere near as much of a budget as a retail release port but at least give us some incentive to buy it other than 'we know you probably already have it but buy this game again in sortof HD so you don't have to dig out your Gamecube'

Is it really that impossible for them to add any sort of new features to the main game (a video and Big cameos don't count) without completely rewriting the code??

[Shane]

Here is a description of SEGA's digital porting teams. It's not mentioned on that thread but I'm also pretty sure Space Channel 5: Part 2 and SEGA Bass Fishing were done by the same team as the Sonic games, NiGHTS, and Crazy Taxi.

[Faseeh]

Here is a description of SEGA's digital porting teams. It's not mentioned on that thread but I'm also pretty sure Space Channel 5: Part 2 and SEGA Bass Fishing were done by the same team as the Sonic games, NiGHTS, and Crazy Taxi.

Could they like not get the team they got to port Generations to PC? They did a pretty solid job,

[Stritix]

One of SEGA's best ports? That very suggestion makes me laugh.

digitally

So the Daytona USA port can have it. The Model 2 Collection games can all have it. But the game where you pay extra for the multiplayer content can't have it, because it's too hard and takes too long?

It does depend on the game. Certain games are easy to add online multiplayer into, whereas others are more difficult and time consuming. I don't think this is a factor here though. I assume those games had a higher budget than the Sonic Adventure 2 HD port. Disappointing.

[Alice Twilight]

I got Jet Set Radio today.

I've never played the original but I can so tell this game hasn't aged well.

I thinking maybe I should've got SA2 HD.

[Lady Soniko]

JSR HD has aged ok considering the Controls were ass to begin with, the cel shaded graphics are gorgeous albeit a little confusing if it's you're first time traversing a stage, it'll grow on you because it's a really good game.

[Alice Twilight]

JSR HD has aged ok considering the Controls were ass to begin with, the cel shaded graphics are gorgeous albeit a little confusing if it's you're first time traversing a stage, it'll grow on you because it's a really good game.

I hope so.

The game looks really good and the music is so darn catchy to listen to.

Maybe I'm just terrible at it. I don't know, I'll play it some more.

I'm up to this stage where you're on the train tracks and there's this really difficult place I need to reach but can't seem to get to.

I'll play some more tonight.

On topic

4:3 ratio isn't that uncommon in games that get HD remakes.

Devil May Cry collection HD has quite a few cutscenes that play in SD format for whatever reason.

Edited November 9, 2012 by NISA

[TheOcelot]

More good news in terms of SA2 sales figures:

Sonic Adventure 2 HD as also been selling extremely well on PSN. For October 2012, SA2 was the 2nd best-seller on US PSN and 1st best-seller on EU PSN.

Below is the link for the US Playstation blog article:

http://blog.us.plays...ps-vita-charts/

Here is the TSSZ article confirming the above:

http://www.tssznews....psn-of-october/

"The adventures of a certain blue hedgehog in his quest to stop Shadow from blowing up the Earth (not that the moon can be saved now, isn’t it?) reached the second spot at the best selling digital games of the month; The Walking Dead Episode 4 was the best-selling game of the month.

But that is in the USA. European PS3 users are not that fond of zombies, since Sonic Adventure 2 is the best-selling game on their October charts."

So SA2 has done pretty well for October 2012 on PSN & XBLA. Good news for SEGA.

Edited November 9, 2012 by NightwingFox