Sonic Adventure 2 Discussion, Speculation, Media Topic

[Burnt Ash]

Not easy, just easier than SA2.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Ah, sorry about that.

I've got mental scars from 06 man. I was doing S-rank everything back before we even knew if there was a reward for doing it. There wasn't one. Just pain. Endless repetitive pain.

Aaaanyway, about those invincibility boxes. I can only remember seeing two of them in the entire course of the game. Any levels where you can find invincibility boxes for huge point bonuses?

[Woun]

My hack SA2HD textures.

[Sami]

So there are people who think that the controls have improved since the Adventure era? Not to offend anyone, but I must be missing something. Unleashed/Generations (modern) Sonic plays for me like he's trying to run on ice, almost. And the faster I go, the worse it gets. I've never had any such problem in Sonic Adventure/2/Heroes.

It's particularly noticeable when boosting, having hit a dash panel, etc, and then trying to move from left to right.

I know I'm going back several pages to bring this up, but eh- I couldn't care less about this game so I haven't been following the thread-

Sonic Adventure - I dare you to play through Windy Valley without smashing into walls with such intensity that Sonic would realistically grind his entire body to dust by the time he got to the end of the level.

Sonic Adventure 2 - It's unnecessarily difficult to properly run in a straight line, and grinding is awful to control.

Sonic Generations - The level design is built around solid controls and not once did I feel like I messed something up on account of the controls. He's maneuverable enough at slow speeds to handle the platforming perfectly, and stiff enough at high speeds to make you feel in control while boosting through a level at mach 1.

Hell, I'd argue that Unleashed has better controls than the Adventure games. It's terrible at slow speeds, which is exactly why the game barely has any slow segments.

Game in which the level design perfectly complemented flawed controls > Game in which the level design highlights each and every problem in the controls.

[goku262002]

My hack SA2HD textures.

Thanks for sharing Woun, but you got to understand that the good chunk of us can't understand your board's language. would you mind translating?

[Debug Ring]

Thanks for sharing Woun, but you got to understand that the good chunk of us can't understand your board's language. would you mind translating?

If you're using Chrome it should offer to translate it for you. That's what I've done.

[Alluusio]

Aaaanyway, about those invincibility boxes. I can only remember seeing two of them in the entire course of the game. Any levels where you can find invincibility boxes for huge point bonuses?

Radical Highway and Green Hill probably have the most useful invincibility boxes. Radical Highway has quite a few enemies near the invincibility balloon so you can get a nice amount of points by destroying them. Green Hill actually has two invincibility boxes and it's highly recommended to use both of them since it's probably the most difficult speed stage to A-rank in the game. City Escape and White Jungle also have invincibility boxes in them. I can't remember if any other stages have them though.

[BakingBluePotatoe]

i still hate the fact they've assigned the light dash to the somersault/ bounce bracelet button which screws with perfect light dashes if you're going for a speed run/points run, it's fucked me over so many times, like HARD Mode on City Escape, the part where you HA the enemy above the pit and light dash to the other side, i just kept bounce bracelet-ing into the hole instead of light dashing.

fuck this game sometimes, it's a true fun killer at times.

That, along with the audio glitches, are what PISSED ME OFF THE MOST in this port. Seriously, couldn't they fix the light dash and assign it to another button? hell, even the Gamecube had enough buttons for it. Dunno about the dreamcast...

[tenchibr]

A tip for those who die trying to Light Dash a cliff: make sure to use up the homing attack in advance, that way you can spam the Light Dash without worrying. It never fails.

[SilJeff]

That, along with the audio glitches, are what PISSED ME OFF THE MOST in this port. Seriously, couldn't they fix the light dash and assign it to another button? hell, even the Gamecube had enough buttons for it. Dunno about the dreamcast...

Funny how two of my personal favorite games/series have a "one button does all"... (SA2 and the Mass Effect games)

[Burnt Ash]

A tip for those who die trying to Light Dash a cliff: make sure to use up the homing attack in advance, that way you can spam the Light Dash without worrying. It never fails.

...Brilliant! Never thought of that, this is a pretty good solution to the ambigous Light Dash/Bounce Attack button.

[Blue Blood]

...Brilliant! Never thought of that, this is a pretty good solution to the ambigous Light Dash/Bounce Attack button.

[Andrew Albacia]

Still messes up your speedruns when you're on the ground and end up somersaulting.

[Burnt Ash]

Still messes up your speedruns when you're on the ground and end up somersaulting.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Funny how two of my personal favorite games/series have a "one button does all"... (SA2 and the Mass Effect games)

*flashbacks to embarrasing deaths in Mass Effect caused by sticking and unsticking to cover walls while trying to run out of line of fire*

Damn you One Button!

[HUNTER297]

I know I'm going back several pages to bring this up, but eh- I couldn't care less about this game so I haven't been following the thread-

Sonic Adventure - I dare you to play through Windy Valley without smashing into walls with such intensity that Sonic would realistically grind his entire body to dust by the time he got to the end of the level.

Sonic Adventure 2 - It's unnecessarily difficult to properly run in a straight line, and grinding is awful to control.

Sonic Generations - The level design is built around solid controls and not once did I feel like I messed something up on account of the controls. He's maneuverable enough at slow speeds to handle the platforming perfectly, and stiff enough at high speeds to make you feel in control while boosting through a level at mach 1.

Hell, I'd argue that Unleashed has better controls than the Adventure games. It's terrible at slow speeds, which is exactly why the game barely has any slow segments.

Game in which the level design perfectly complemented flawed controls > Game in which the level design highlights each and every problem in the controls.

It isn't awful to control. It's just not automated which IMO is better than in modern games. I played SA2 and now I try to play Generations again. And even if I love that game. It feels like a series of Quick Time Events and automated grinding just pisses me off

[SilJeff]

My views of the controls:

SA1- for their first major 3D Sonic game, it is pretty good. I am actually able to jump off a cliff and easily land in a certain place without dying/falling. And i am able to do this in at least one place in each level. Unlike the modern games where each time I jump could be a death sentence because Sonic plays like he's on ice

SA2- i consider this the best handling, though the one button does all keeps it from being my favorite 3D sonic game in terms of controls. Sure the camera can be shit, but unlike the freight train on ice modern games, I still feel like I have control. Also, turning around (like, holding up, then going directly to holding down) in the mechs are sometimes not great.

Heroes- eh, not bad.

Shadow- the guns actually shoot well considering they shouldn't exist. Controls are definitely NOT what I hate about this.

06- goodbye days of good controls! Hello turtle characters, shit controls, and broken wall climbing. Mach speed sections are impossible too.

Unleashed- goodbye completely broken controls to simply bad controls. I don't see how anyone likes this game's controls. Sonic literally controls like a freight train (if said train isn't on rails) on ice. If you aren't holding the boost, you control like SHIT. No modern game controls as well as the Adventures, but the other modern games are still better than unleashed's

Colors- the wisps are annoying to control, but this is better than unleashed.

Generations- the best modern, but still has the freight train on ice, just not THAT severe

[Sami]

It isn't awful to control. It's just not automated which IMO is better than in modern games. I played SA2 and now I try to play Generations again. And even if I love that game. It feels like a series of Quick Time Events and automated grinding just pisses me off

Reaction-based platforming =/= QTE. It's just a different, and perfectly legitimate, take on the genre.

Oh, and I rather appreciate being able to run in a straight line.

Unleashed- goodbye completely broken controls to simply bad controls. I don't see how anyone likes this game's controls. Sonic literally controls like a freight train (if said train isn't on rails) on ice. If you aren't holding the boost, you control like SHIT. No modern game controls as well as the Adventures, but the other modern games are still better than unleashed's

[Blue Blood]

Reaction-based platforming =/= QTE. It's just a different, and perfectly legitimate, take on the genre.

Oh, and I rather appreciate being able to run in a straight line.

Do you mean run in a straight line and do nothing else?

No really, I don't get that criticism at all. SA2 has perhaps the best handling of any 3D Sonic game. Generations works nicely when you're going very slowly, but switches the running mode controls far too early and as such controls really badly when you actually need it.

[Sami]

Do you mean run in a straight line and do nothing else?

No really, I don't get that criticism at all. SA2 has perhaps the best handling of any 3D Sonic game. Generations works nicely when you're going very slowly, but switches the running mode controls far too early and as such controls really badly when you actually need it.

The movement is incredibly jerky and I feel like even the slightest twitch of my thumb will send him flying. Unleashed and Generations, on the other hand, are infinitely better at high speeds; in a Sonic game, that feeling of control is something I'll happily sacrifice a smaller turning radius for.

[sonfan1984]

Wow, two completely different opinions here...

[Blue Blood]

The movement is incredibly jerky and I feel like even the slightest twitch of my thumb will send him flying. Unleashed and Generations, on the other hand, are infinitely better at high speeds; in a Sonic game, that feeling of control is something I'll happily sacrifice a smaller turning radius for.

SA2 is twitchy no doubt. That's fucked me over at the giant missile in Metal Harbour far too many times. But I hardly feel that's ever the case because of the level design. With the level design in mind, SA2 works. I suppose Generations works too, just not as well. It's not just that it has a smaller turning circle, it's just you can't really do anything without slowing down completely.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Sami]

SA2 is twitchy no doubt. That's fucked me over at the giant missile in Metal Harbour far too many times. But I hardly feel that's ever the case because of the level design. With the level design in mind, SA2 works. I suppose Generations works too, just not as well. It's not just that it has a smaller turning circle, it's just you can't really do anything without slowing down completely.

But unlike SA2, there's never a moment where it feels like the designers had much more faith in the controls than they should have (the missile, the half-pipes in the jungle, the full tubes in the pyramid, etc.); everything suits the controls perfectly, in my opinion. Ergo, the controls are better.

That and I like going through an entire level without stopping for an instant; this is much more satisfying to pull off in Unleashed and Generations than SA2, where, again, even running in a straight line is cumbersome.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Dissident

[SilJeff]

I am the opposite. In SA2, i can run even in a straight line at ease, whereas modern games are like on ice because he is so slippery

If you aren't boosting, he is way twitchier than past styles

I know you did, but through my experiences with unleashed-generations, it is literally the opposite. When holding the boost button, he is stiff, sure, but once you let go or the bar runs out, it becomes sonic on ice (this is VERY apparent in unleashed's hub worlds where you don't have the space to boost).

Edited October 23, 2012 by Mr.Snarf

[Chooch]

Yeah, well.. All that control in Sonic Adventure 2 is lost the second you hop on a grind rail.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Chooch