How Christian Fundamentalists Plan to Teach Genocide to Schoolchildren

[DGam'r]

It doesn't say if it's an angel or God. People have argued either way.

Edit: His name became Israel though, which means 'Wrestles with God'. Not 'Wrestles with God's associates'

Hmm...interesting

[SchemingMinor]

Ok...but what I'm saying is the truth hands down. Plus that was 10s of thousands years ago.

Well, then I want to see actual physical proof that it happened those thousands of years ago. You know the same proof that religious scholars have when they try to claim that something is real from actual studies having no biases - not just word of mouth, physical evidence (fossils, geological records, actual accounts that were created before butchered translations, ect.)This story instead defies every genetic biological law known in nature and thus cannot be real, and the reason why is that humans descended from no more than 10,000 different people because of genetic variation. There is a person who is given the label in science as "Mitochondrial Eve" but, it still has no linkage to the story - it is just a name scientists gave to a woman who has a direct unbroken genetic linage through her mtDNA as the most recent ancestor that humans share in common with.

http://en.wikipedia....tochondrial_Eve

Not only that, but Lilith was the first wife of Adam in the bin-Sira version of the Bible.

Here's the kicker; Lilith is an ancient Sumerian agricultural/fertility goddess. No joke. Lilith ( whom has over 100 different names in varying religions ranging from Sumerian to Jewish Mysticism) is just evidence that the story took one element of another religion to help start out another. With the progression of each religion throughout the Fertile Crescent and the surrounding areas across the span of time, Lilith however, is made out to seem more like the perils of man and evolves into succubi territory.

http://www.lilithgal...library/lilith/

No...and where did you get that story about a woman's period for being a sin...because I never heard of that before.

Leviticus 12:5.

http://bible.cc/leviticus/12-5.htm

But wait! We aren't finished yet... You may say where Eve comes in all of this and here it is:

To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;

with painful labor you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you. ”

But wait, where is menstruation you say? (Also I note that part about "Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you. ”

is very disturbing and misogynistic I might add, but it also proves the reflections of the antediluvian times when this was written.)

This passage was also translated by early Christian writers to include menstruation as a punishment for Eve's sins, so this is where the whole concept about "periods are a way to pay for Eve's sins" comes from. Then you have this little lovely passage:

Jewish Rabbis listed nine curses inflicted on women as a result of the Fall: "To the woman He gave nine curses and death: the burden of the blood of menstruation and the blood of virginity; the burden of pregnancy; the burden of childbirth; the burden of bringing up the children; her head is covered as one in mourning; she pierces her ear like a permanent slave or slave girl who serves her master; she is not to be believed as a witness; and after everything--death.

You may have not even heard about it but, it is a scar that still lives to this very day among Bible literalists. Not only that, but those people (mainly it was the Latin Fathers like Tertullian and others like St. Thomas Aquinas, the latter who by the way started the whole anti-gay crucade within the religion) still see that every woman is to be held accountable through Eve's sins because of their gender, which came across more as punishment to keep women in a state of submission to the man.

You know, pretty misogynist theology stuff like this from the Latin Fathers: (“Every woman should be ....) walking about as Eve mourning and repentant, in order that by every garb of penitence she might the more fully expiate that which she derives from Eve,-the ignominy, I mean, of the first sin, and the odium (attaching to her as the cause) of human perdition.

"In pains and in anxieties dost thou bear (children), woman; and toward thine husband (is) thy inclination, and he lords it over thee."

And do you not know that you are (each) an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too.”

There is also Jewish term surrounding the whole concept of menstruation derived from the Torah called niddah filled with the most ridiculous regulations for anyone to follow, many bordering on the sadistic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niddah (I know, Wikipedia link, but they are all gathered here for convenience.)

Hmm Religion Creation Stories:

God creating the heavens, Earth, etc.

No they aren't false and that's the creation story I put about this sentence you want the whole scripture:

...think about it...this world won't last forever. That's it, not trying to get in an argument just making a statement

First off, I asked about how this fits in with the other creation stories from other religions and whether or not this makes the Judo-Christian creation story ultimately the only truthful one. Second, I did not ask for the whole scripture - you just insisted upon it. Third, you have not proved to me whether the story is nothing more than mere translated text in a book. Coming out and just saying that "No they aren't false" doesn't help your case to prove to me whether this story has factual proof more than the bits and pieces taken from ancient Sumerian and Mesopotamian religious creation stories proven by religious scholars.

Also what does that last part "...think about it...this world won't last forever." exactly add to this? It comes more across to me as a desperate emotional plea. So if I think about the world ending without any religious concept behind it, then what? Was that a plea to try to make me see things your way? It came across as less somebody wanting to make a statement, and more as someone trying to force something down my throat.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Kintobor

[The Weeb with No Name]

I think this is where the debate ends.