Castlevania: Lords Of Shadow 2 (Ps3/360)

[Falco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhX61xHaHjA&nomobile=1

[Jetronic]

That second character at the end of the trailer caught my attention. Alucard? Hector? Someone else? I haven't played Lord of Shadows, but know of it's heavy criticism and lack of identity.

I'll keep an eye on this one though, if only because I'm interested in the story. Also I smacked a mosquito while typing this.

[The Weeb with No Name]

If you played God of War and Shadow of the Colossus, then you've played Lords of Shadow.

[Jetronic]

If you played God of War and Shadow of the Colossus, then you've played Lords of Shadow.

[Lady Soniko]

Oh my fucking god the hyyyyype i can't wait for this, loved the first to pieces! Screw the haters, my body is ready Gabriel ; w ;

[Dobkeratops]

They better not pull a Raiden on us now, Gabriel has to be the main character in this with all the abilities and kinks of his new identity. Unless the new character is Hector, who was a cool guy in CoD, but he's not popular enough to be here over Alucard.

Hopefully the story will get several timeskips - I liked the detailed medieval-ish settings in 1 but that epilogue's gotta get resolved.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Dobkeratops

[Solly]

Betrayal. That's really what this is.

That second character at the end of the trailer caught my attention. Alucard? Hector? Someone else? I haven't played Lord of Shadows, but know of it's heavy criticism and lack of identity.

I'll keep an eye on this one though, if only because I'm interested in the story. Also I smacked a mosquito while typing this.

About to spoil the last game's stupid twist ending.

Not even sure how that'd work considering in this universe Gabriel Belmont IS Dracula. I guess maybe the magic farce fairy can poof Alucard into existence anyway though, it's always possible.

I've played neither of those titles.

Then you can buy this and play an obnoxious rip-off of them. Except you shouldn't.

[Candescence]

I'm with Solly, I'm disgusted that that load of tripe even got a sequel. It really doesn't deserve to be called a Castlevania game, nor should this or Mirror of Fate.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Salamander]

The official website calls this the "conclusion" to the Lords Of Shadow saga, so at least this is it for the series, although what the point is in rebooting a decades-long series for two games and a spin-off, I can't tell you. Although presumably Konami will then throw the series at someone else who has nothing to do with it for another reboot.

As for Alucard, the protagonist of Mirror Of Fate is the son Gabriel never knew he had (somehow), Trevor, and there's speculation that he becomes Alucard at the end of that game.

[Dobkeratops]

I'm with Solly, I'm disgusted that that load of tripe even got a sequel. It really doesn't deserve to be called a Castlevania game, nor should this or Mirror of Fate.

As far as franchise departures LoS is much less offensive than the Wii fighting game, the XBLA/PSN DLC-fest grindathon or the coin OP arcade, all of which carry the Castlevania moniker.

In fact it's indisputably better than a couple mainline titles (hello Simon's Quest and that N64 atrocity). Besides, there's an incredible amount of effort from Mercurysteam's part put on the game, as opposed to doing yet another Symphony of the Night rehash with recycled sprites and generic animu guy. Credit where credit is due.

This is an alternate plotline anyways, it's not altering the original canon. Harmless at worst.

[Solly]

As far as franchise departures LoS is much less offensive than the Wii fighting game, the XBLA/PSN DLC-fest grindathon or the coin OP arcade, all of which carry the Castlevania moniker.

Those sucked too, but one was a fighting game spin-off, and the other was an experiment in digital distribution and multiplayer. And I'd say they had more than a little to do with Castlevania, even if they weren't very good. You can't fault a crossover fighter for being a departure.

LoS really is Castlevania in name alone.

In fact it's indisputably better than a couple mainline titles (hello Simon's Quest and that N64 atrocity). Besides, there's an incredible amount of effort from Mercurysteam's part put on the game, as opposed to doing yet another Symphony of the Night rehash with recycled sprites and generic animu guy. Credit where credit is due.

Pointing at a bad game to justify another bad game doesn't work. Neither does trying to excuse a game's percieved flaws by saying the developer was trying really hard.

Plus I don't think anyone wanted more rehashes. I think most people are fine with seeing them try to innovate- that's a necessity with every series, but that doesn't mean you have to jump off the deep end.

I still wouldn't even really call Lords of Shadow a good game when you choose to ignore the rest of the series. It BLATANTLY rips off God of War and Shadow of the Collosus, it's highly button-mashy, its story is bananas, and the framerate wildly drops, and there's a point where it drops into the low 20's and below and doesn't go back up for the remainder of the game.

This is an alternate plotline anyways, it's not altering the original canon. Harmless at worst.

Except this is basically becoming the face of Castlevania to a lot of people. It's being made in place of other, proper games. I get that it's an alternate plot-line but Konami seems adamant about pushing this.

These are main adventures while games like Judgement were just spin-offs. Judgement was harmless. And hell, even if the prior few games weren't perfect(though I'd hardly call any of them BAD) they at least had something to do with Castlevania.

I think if there were some other big Castlevania game coming out that was more in line with what fans wanted, people wouldn't really be complaining about this. But as it stands, the LoS string of games almost appears to be replacing what we're used to.

[Candescence]

Solly pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

Though, I do disagree on the notion of Harmony of Despair sucking, I enjoyed it despite only being able to play single player, but that's because I played as Julius, who doesn't really require any real grinding to become legitimately useful, and he plays like SCV4 Simon, multi-direction whip attacks and all. Sure, it the game had its flaws, but it was a heavily experimental game. Like Judgement, it's fairly harmless, it not even supposed to have a plot of any kind.

And while I haven't played Judgement, controversial art style aside, I hear it's not actually that bad a game.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Marcello]

It BLATANTLY rips off God of War and Shadow of the Collosus,

Er.. Aren't most Castlevania games rip-offs of Metroid anyway?

[Blacklightning]

Er.. Aren't most Castlevania games rip-offs of Metroid anyway?

Edited June 1, 2012 by The Cheese

[Lady Soniko]

to be fair, taking Castlevania's original combat system from 2D and making it work in 3D would end up being a God of War clone anyway, you know Konami they like to make flashy in-human fighting moves, which is pretty much God of Wars combat system anyway, and to be fair Castlevania games have often had you duke it out with story tall bosses, its still a good game even if Konami don't know what to do with the series anymore, its suffering the same fate as Sonic, people want the classic gameplay and stories back, much like Sonic, Castlevania is TRYING to find its footing in the next gen world, while attempting to bring something new to the table.

and to be fair, i'd take LoS over the overrated GoW series anyday.

[Solly]

Er.. Aren't most Castlevania games rip-offs of Metroid anyway?

[Candescence]

to be fair, taking Castlevania's original combat system from 2D and making it work in 3D would end up being a God of War clone anyway, you know Konami they like to make flashy in-human fighting moves, which is pretty much God of Wars combat system anyway

Edited June 1, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Lady Soniko]

i don't really want to play it as a DMC clone either to be honest, but DMC is miles better than the tripe GoW series, i really enjoyed LoS's and i'm just a casual gamer (EVEN THOUGH i've played all the original NES/SNES/MD/N64 Castlevanias) i still enjoyed it, the puzzles where mindboggling, the combat was solid, the challenge was tough and the power ups where good, not to mention the game's Score and voice cast... if anything it felt more of a Warrior Within styled game, with a deep combat system and a lot of platforming, ledge grabbing etc.

GoW's controls felt broken to me, probably because Kratos is a beast but the controls for the third game felt stiff, and the overall game felt glitchy and meh, i don't know if its my nostalgia blurring my vision to let LoS slide by without harsh criticism but i genuinely loved every minute of it, even that obnoxious music box level and some of the broken mini puzzles like the werewolf blood maze, it just gave me a sense of accomplishment after beating the bone dragon, after kicking the living shit out of satan etc. it surely is a lot different from past castlevania titles and as long as its not blurring the line between spin off and canon then i welcome it.

and to be fair there are worse Castlevania games out there carrying the series title shamefully which should never have seen the light of day.

[Dobkeratops]

Lords of Shadow on the other hand is a shameless copy of God of War. There's really no getting around it. They just took something that has been popular in the past few years, then made their own with basically no improvements. The only thing that really even distinguishes LoS from other clones is its budget, and even then that didn't make it as good as what it was copying.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Dobkeratops

[The Weeb with No Name]

Hey, I just realized that Gabula has a pretty cool looking coat. I think I might have to get this.

[Solly]

To be honest here - a lot, and I mean a lot of people, myself included, thought the GoW formula was just right for 3D Castlevanias. Previous attempts at translating SotN style maps to the third dimension resulted in bland to atrocious game design. It's not a DmC situation where there's an already established and good foundation in place, so the blatant cloning doesn't strike me wrong. I've played the alternatives.

Because they were having trouble adapting the series to a 3D environment, the only sensible option was to completely rip-off another franchise it has next to nothing in common with, and completely lose the series' identity.

I mean c'mon, they didn't even try to make a game that had anything to do with Castlevania. Most other companies would've at least tried to preserve something, like the art or music, but they didn't. They kept virtually nothing.

Of course it's not going to reach GoW/SotC levels of refinement. Those are fucking top tier games with the backing of incredibly experienced talent and all the money+time they need..

Yeah that's kind of my point. Lords of Shadow simply isn't as good or refined as the two major games it's copying.

Would I like a classic CV canon entry with production values and shit? Of course. But Konami never gave their internal CV team a decent budget, not even in the PS2 days when they actually had competent staff.

For what it's worth I'm not holding Konami in high regard or anything- they've fucked up a lot too. I also really don't intend on badmouthing Mercury Steam. They ARE talented.

I just think that talent's being totally wasted on something that's using the Castlevania name for nothing but marketability. I understand the politics behind it, I know this is probably more effort being put into the seires than we've seen in a while, but I really wish it were all going toward something else.

[Dobkeratops]

Because they were having trouble adapting the series to a 3D environment, the only sensible option was to completely rip-off another franchise it has next to nothing in common with, and completely lose the series' identity.

Hm. They tried a couple times to no avail, so while not the only option, it was definitely sensible to pick a solid groundwork to work with, then perhaps expand on if resources permit.

I'd like to see this sequel tackle on the magic/subweapon/blocking scheme they have goin' and add back vampire abilities to differentiate itself further, yes.

Yeah that's kind of my point. Lords of Shadow simply isn't as good or refined as the two major games it's copying.

That's like asking every FPS to be Half Life, though. How many games have taken from SotC and matched, let alone supersede it?

I just think that talent's being totally wasted on something that's using the Castlevania name for nothing but marketability. I understand the politics behind it, I know this is probably more effort being put into the seires than we've seen in a while, but I really wish it were all going toward something else.

Well, originally it was meant to be a separate game. I take it rather than having two vampire themed IPs around they slapped the CV name for an extra pull and gave them the alternate canon so they don't have to deal with an already developed and convoluted existing timeline. Can't blame them, if I was in charge first order of the day would be nuking Soma out harder than Castlevania Legends.

I agree they should keep more of the classic concepts, art or music. No disrespect to their superb art team, but I do miss Kojima's gaudy illustrations and the few remixes LoS had were good. Always enjoyed an alternate approach to established items.

[Solly]

Hm. They tried a couple times to no avail, so while not the only option, it was definitely sensible to pick a solid groundwork to work with, then perhaps expand on if resources permit.

I'd like to see this sequel tackle on the magic/subweapon/blocking scheme they have goin' and add back vampire abilities to differentiate itself further, yes.

That would definitely be a start, but I don't really know if I could call what they did "picking a solid groundwork to work with." That's what I'd say Symphony of the Night did. Lords of Shadow more or less just made another God of War.

That's like asking every FPS to be Half Life, though. How many games have taken from SotC and matched, let alone supersede it?

Not every FPS is trying to be Half Life, though. I say this as someone who's generally bitter toward the genre.

But when you go and copy another game the way Lords of Shadow did, you simply can't avoid being compared to the original.

In regards to the rest of your post; I more or less agree. (Although I thought Soma's power was really neat). Again, I'd really let more of my criticisms slide if this series were more of a side-thing, or at the very least other Castlevania games were being made, but it feels like this stuff has replaced the kind of Castlevania I'm familiar with, and it's disheartening.

But I'm going to give this game a chance. For all I know, it'll be an improvement over the last one and make efforts to distinguish itself. And if it is the 'conclusion' I might as well see how it ends, whether I buy it or not. I still want Classic CV back though. Dammit.

[Dantemustdie00]

Ugh....

Yo Konami, where's my Julius Belmont game that takes place in 1999 already!? THAT's the game most Hardcore Castlevania fans are waiting for.

[Candescence]

... Didn't IGA already use Devil May Cry as a starting groundwork for his own 3D games? DMC was probably a better choice for a groundwork, let's be frank. It helps that the first DMC, ya know, involved travelling through a castle. Granted, both LOI and COD weren't great, but they were better than Castlevania 64.

And what the heck is wrong with Soma? Sure, his personality is somewhat more stoic than other CV protagonists (except Shanoa), but his own plotline was a breath of fresh air from the typical "let's kill Dracula again" plotline, introduced a well-designed and creative special ability mechanic, and starred in the first metroidvanias that actually allowed the player to use more than one type of primary weapon (well, kinda, Alucard could use more than just swords, but all of his weapons were used in the exact same way, unlike Soma). And, sure, he was another white-haired pretty boy, but you can't hate on the coat. Christ, that thing must be expensive. Mr. Cruz is a sharp dresser.

That, and the Sorrow games introduced Julius, who is a fucking boss. He's in his fifties and out of action for thirty years and he still ends up being the hardest boss of Aria. While not even trying.

I also really don't intend on badmouthing Mercury Steam. They ARE talented.

You DO realise that you're talking about the same bunch who made one of the most bland and brown FPS games this generation, right?

Edited June 1, 2012 by Masaru Daimon