The humans in sonic unleashed.

[Viku]

I gues some humans from past games would look good in the Unleashed style. For example, the GUN Commander looked good in Chronicles even if cartoonish.

Heck, even Elise and Maria would look good! Mostly the male humansin Unleashed had ridiculous over-proportions while women looked pretty good and blend good in Sonic's World. In Unleashed style, I feel that maria and Elise would look more "chibi" and not ungly at all...

[Dr. Mechano]

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Where did it ever say, or even imply, that Gerald spent his whole life in space? Hell, even if he did, it doesn't explain a thing since, in Sonic X, the two worlds were separate universes, not just separate planets.

Sonic X had a gaping plothole. One that was never filled, and cannot even be reconciled with itself, much less the separate game storyline. Eggman remembers looking up to Gerald as a child, yet in Sonic X, Eggman spent his entire life on the unnamed "other" world, ignorant of Earth and its people- This creates an unsolvable contradiction.

In the games, it was Earth. It was always Earth, and humans always existed, at least in the Japanese storyline. Eggman and Witchcart predate SA's humans, but the modern cities of the old games sure seem to hint at the existence of others. Regardless, it's a moot point since Mobius/etc. were SoA concepts.

Was Sonic X trying to adapt to these concepts? Perhaps. But that doesn't make it retroactively true for the games- It's a separate storyline which completely contradicts the games on numerous levels. Sonic Team supervising it doesn't mean that they accept it as game canon. Sonic Team "supervises" the Archie comics, giving the writers certain limitations on what can and cannot be done, but that sure doesn't mean the comics are game canon, does it?

[Blazey Firekitty]

I honestly didn't think the humans in Unleashed were ugly. I thought they were rather adorable, and helped the light-hearted "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog" feel of the game a lot.

[SuperStingray]

I remember most, if not all of Unleashed's humans, because their designs made them characters rather than mission markers.

Definitely; they all had individual personalities and developed backstories that kept them fresh and memorable. I still have nightmares about Louis Montaine though...

[Frozen Nitrogen]

They explained in Sonic X that some of the environments from sonic's world were transported to earth.

Also, that reminds me. According to the level select map interface in SA2. Green Hill Zone is located just off Prison Island and Central City. I don't see Marble Zone, Springyard or any of that other stuff nearby. Which further kind of supports my argument.

Green Hill was also seen in the Chronicles game. Didn't they have to use a boat to get there? Also, Central City is next to Green Hill in that game, right?

^ This. If you stipulate that game canon supersedes other canon (and you should indeed do this), you run straight up against the fact that the geography throughout the Sonic games is so utterly screwed that some sort of dimensional overlay legerdemain is really your only option unless you're happy to throw up your hands and say "Fine! It makes no sense!" Which, while true, is also lazy.

And then along comes Sonic X and uses the exact same rationale, which, while not proof that we're supposed to think that's how it works in game-land, is pretty meaty circumstancial evidence.

I think Sega's going for these varied wacky designs because the old ones didn't give NPCs identity. Now we can see an NPC and think, "the guy with the funny ears" or "the old man with the unibrow" or something like that.

Yes, but unless they're plot-relevant (as in the case of the President and the Commander), there's no reason for them to give the NPCs identity. Now, while I generally like redundant world-building detail thrown all over the place, applying it (via gratuitous cartoon-ism to humans who have been previously portrayed in a realistic '06 manner) in such a manner so as to make the wider world look sillier and less realistic seems to defeat the point of throwing the detail in there at all.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I'd really like to see Pickle again. He was impossibly friendly, and could switch between goofy and serious quite easiliy.

[SuperStingray]

If you stipulate that game canon supersedes other canon (and you should indeed do this), you run straight up against the fact that the geography throughout the Sonic games is so utterly screwed that some sort of dimensional overlay legerdemain is really your only option unless you're happy to throw up your hands and say "Fine! It makes no sense!" Which, while true, is also lazy.

I just pretend that Sonic's planet has a REALLY hyperactive aesthenosphere and universal earthquake resistant architecture. Either way, I'm somewhat glad that the Sonic's planet remains ambiguous in all respects because it doesn't confine it to realism nor any other fixed style. It's something I don't think they've taken advantage of enough, but it allows for a mix of both realistic levels like City Escape and Wave Ocean and surreal levels like Music Plant and Toy Kingdom if you get what I'm saying. Edited May 23, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Indigo Rush]

You don't know if that's true. They probably didn't want to waste time explaining a backstory. Plus, SA1 was a rushed game.

The heck with not knowing, this is common sense.

They explained Knuckles' story at the beginning of his story. They gave the entire backstory to Chaos and Tikal. They gave a backstory to everyone excluding Eggman, who was later given one in the very next game. Why, oh why, then could they not give a backstory to something as important as this? YOU WOULD THINK THAT SOMETHING IMPORTANT INVOLVING THE MERGING OF TWO FLIPPING ALTERNATE UNIVERSES WOULD BE AT LEAST MENTIONED WITHIN THE GAME'S CANON.

But no, they didn't, because it never freaking happened. You underestimate the intelligence of Sonic Team. At least pre-2004. If they explained it later, then sure, you're right. But considering the gap between SA2 and Shadow the Hedgehog in terms of explaining his own personal backstory, they might have the initiative to explain something as huge as an interdimensional rift by now. They could very well have shoe-horned it into any Sonic game post-SA.

And by what authority and knowledge can you tell us that Sonic Adventure was by any means a rushed game? Rushed by maybe one month to make the launch? Maybe. Rushed in terms of the whole conception and design of the game? By no means. It was in the works as a prototype since Sonic freaking Jam. They've developed the engine for well over 2 years and a game of that magnitude that marked the return of Sonic since the mid-90s would certainly not have been rushed. Sonic 2006 was a rushed game, not Sonic Adventure.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[redmenace]

Eggman's from another world. I don't know why people think he was born in the human world, when they explained the whole thing in the first episode of Sonic X. Yes, most of the events in that anime are non-canon. But some parts like the first episode, and Eggman rebuilding the moon (which they couldn't fit in the game) should be considered canon. And yes, some of these episodes were supervised by the Scenario Writer of SA2, and the director of the sonic adventure games.

As for the humans in Unleashed. I despise them. They look ridiculous and embarrasing to the franchise's style. What on earth was a character like Prof. Pickle, doing in a game like Sonic Unleashed? I'd expect him to be in some sort of Cartoon Network show. Sonic doesn't look ridiculous or embarrasing, which is why those humans piss me off.

How can you go humans that look like Maria and Elise, to humans that are Pixar influenced. It doesn't make sense. It kind of screws up the continuity of past games. I know sonic is usually seen as being aimed towards young people, but they took it too far.

I don't even like interacting with humans. Doing missions for them. They need to get rid of that pointless RPG aspect. Why do they keep forcing these town stages on people? Do it in a Chronicles game. Not in a main series game.

Maria had the freakest eyes I ever seen. That made me cringe in SA2 but since it was an isolated case, it was fine.

I'm not going to comment on the Eggman being from another planet since others have explained it as bull so well. This and Overlanders and humans with a city inside a cave with artficial sky has no place in Sonic. Spin-offs, fine, but none of that bull in the main franchise.

Unleashed did the characters really well. Some have pointed exacly why (consistent with Sonic and Eggman) so I'm not going to tackle this further.

And the hub world missions in Unleashed are completley optional. You can get from one stage to the other without any hassle whatsoever (with only one exception). Power-ups are given without needing to speak with anyone either.

Ah well, the eternal quest of trying to make all spin-offs canon to the games or all games canon. It never ends. I'm tired of dealing with it though. Everywhere I go, there's always someone who cannot move past this for whatever reason.

And the Green Hill thing in SA2 makes no sense. It's an island and there's a part that it's called Green Hill Zone. The GUN Island has a lot of missions, none of them making any sense geographically. The forest life in the Island also makes no sense, since there's a green forest and a white jungle. The city to the left has only one mission, City Escape, and no one calls that city on the whole City Escape. It's an island (South Island), and part of it it's called Green Hill, I see no contradiction. You guys aren't seeing the whole picture here.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

YOU WOULD THINK THAT SOMETHING IMPORTANT INVOLVING THE MERGING OF TWO FLIPPING ALTERNATE UNIVERSES WOULD BE AT LEAST MENTIONED WITHIN THE GAME'S CANON.

It IS mentioned within the game canon. Look at the map in Shadow. Then look at the globe in Unleashed. Then look at the map in SA2: Battle. Then look at the map in Chronicles.

You find a better pseudoscientific explanation than planar overlay, I'll be the first to sing your praises.

Also, we actually HAVE planar overlay and dimensional fracturing in the games - Sonic Rush and Sonic Advance 3. So it at least has some precedent.

I just pretend that Sonic's planet has a REALLY hyperactive aesthenosphere and universal earthquake resistant architecture.

This one's almost better, but yeah, daily Richter 10's are gonna be a bitch.

Either way, I'm somewhat glad that the Sonic's planet remains ambiguous in all respects because it doesn't confine it to realism nor any other fixed style. It's something I don't think they've taken advantage of enough, but it allows for a mix of both realistic levels like City Escape and Wave Ocean and surreal levels like Music Plant and Toy Kingdom if you get what I'm saying.

Absolutely. Blanket geographical ambiguity would have served far better than the self-contradictory geography we have instead been presented with for Sonic's world.

[Indigo Rush]

It IS mentioned within the game canon. Look at the map in Shadow. Then look at the globe in Unleashed. Then look at the map in SA2: Battle. Then look at the map in Chronicles.

You find a better pseudoscientific explanation than planar overlay, I'll be the first to sing your praises.

Sonic Team post-2001. Think outside the box and within it at the same time. They give no explanation for this because they just don't find it important. If there was a reason, they'd have given it.

Something as big as an animal universe and a human universe merging isn't just some thing the fans need to piece together; this is something that they would have told us years ago.

Also, we actually HAVE planar overlay and dimensional fracturing in the games - Sonic Rush and Sonic Advance 3. So it at least has some precedent.

At least there's that. Too bad they can't execute it consistently.

[Badnik Zero]

And by what authority and knowledge can you tell us that Sonic Adventure was by any means a rushed game?

Sonic Rush Adventure was a rushed game.

[SchemingMinor]

Take this point: when Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games came out, people responded how natural both franchises looked side by side, especially noting Robotnik and the humans of Mario's universe. There is a reason why too. Mario happened to bring to Sonic's table stylized humans that look like they would fit in with his world, even if it consisted of the same mascot cartoonish characters from the typical Mario sport roster. The point is that they fit, and Robotnik didn't stick out like a sore thumb (unless you count his freakishly disproportionate tallness compared to the others and the head to body ratio; unless you include the princesses.) for the first time compared to other human beings.

If the Sonic games want to improve on their humans, then they should take a note from their friendly rival and impede on the idea.

I swear, Robotnik's from the Mushroom Kingdom.

[Dr. Mechano]

I swear, Robotnik's from the Mushroom Kingdom.

He even has the same big pink nose as Wario and Waluigi- He could practically be the lost Wario brother with his sort of resemblance.

[Sean]

The human designs in Unleashed were fine. The GUN commander from Chronicles even looked like somebody out of a Steven Spielberg animation. I was half-hoping for Cosgrove to show up, too.

[Dr. Mechano]

I was half-hoping for Cosgrove to show up, too.

"Hey, Eggman- Ya wanna go hang out someplace and disregard the game's plot for a couple of hours?"

"DO I!"

Ah, yes. What might've been.

All my beefs with Chronicles aside, I loved its artistic style. NPCs, like in Unleashed, were vibrant and likable. I particularly liked Dr. Madden, despite his small role.

[SchemingMinor]

He even has the same big pink nose as Wario and Waluigi- He could practically be the lost Wario brother with his sort of resemblance.

The Red Herring is the yellow cape. LOST YOSHI STORY PLOT OMGZ!

[SuperStingray]

He even has the same big pink nose as Wario and Waluigi- He could practically be the lost Wario brother with his sort of resemblance.

Egotistic, narcissistic and indulging and sometimes clumsy yet finds occasions to check his ego at the door for a greater good... yeah, they really sound like twins!

Sonic Rush Adventure was a rushed game.

[Cake]

You find a better pseudoscientific explanation than planar overlay, I'll be the first to sing your praises.

Also, we actually HAVE planar overlay and dimensional fracturing in the games - Sonic Rush and Sonic Advance 3. So it at least has some precedent.

You pretty much just came up with your own explanation there. Eggman has broken the world at LEAST twice already. You don't think there's the odd chance that it was put back togetyher in the wrong order? Or, maybe a piece here and there landed somewhere else? It's totally a possiblity, much moreso than the games having ANYTHING to do with Sonic X.

[Cany the hedge]

I honestly didn't think the humans in Unleashed were ugly. I thought they were rather adorable, and helped the light-hearted "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog" feel of the game a lot.

Gotta agree with you, they supported the fact they were going back to the "light-hearted" story type again, and I personally like Prof. Pickles, because of...well...Cucumber sandwiches.

EDIT: Heh, thanks for that A Ham Sandwich, didn

Edited May 23, 2009 by Cany the hedge

[SuperStingray]

Gotta agree with you, they supported the fact they were going back to the "light-hearted" story type again, and I personally like Prof. Pickles, because of...well...Cumcumber sandwiches.

Ugh... CUMcumber sandwiches? Hardly a substitute for mayonnaise. Edited May 23, 2009 by A Ham Sandwich

[Cany the hedge]

Ugh... CUMcumber sandwiches? Hardly a substitute for mayonnaise.

Fixed...But, "Cumcumber"?...I wonder if....

[Indigo Rush]

Fixed...But, "Cumcumber"?...I wonder if....

Sliced thinly if you please. Am I quite right, Tails?

Edited May 23, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[Cany the hedge]

Sliced thinly if you please. Am I quite right, Tails?

I can already picture that scene, see what I created? A monster of LOL-tastic proportions.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Cany the hedge

[Phos]

For Unleashed, they just copied Pixar's style and called it good. They match neither Sonic's nor Eggman's style.