The humans in sonic unleashed.

[Thirsty Pocket]

I don't mind the humans looking anime-ish or cartoony. Sonic games tend to vary in atmosphere... and I am fine with that. The appearance of characters can change along with it. It's fine...

Just as long as it's not unpleasant to look at, like the TOO realistic look in Sonic 06, or the TOO cartoony look in Sonic Chronicles.

[Indigo Rush]

For Unleashed, they just copied Pixar's style and called it good. They match neither Sonic's nor Eggman's style.

Because that's what you think. Little have you learned in your time on the Internet that not everything you think is a fact. My own art style is no less copying the style of Pixar as is any characterized human being placed in a three-dimensional environment. There's nothing special about it. You may as well say that they're copying off Dreamworks or Warner Brothers cartoons; it's a freaking cartoon. There's only so much you can deviate from in this situation (which Sonic Team managed to do nicely, with the anime humans. Good thing they rectified this mistake later on)

Edited May 23, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[lounge]

And by what authority and knowledge can you tell us that Sonic Adventure was by any means a rushed game?

Development started around Sonic Jam. They talked about creating an RPG like format for the next sonic. Which means they had one year to develop the game. Not only that, but a HUGE amount of staff was drafted to the game, in order to make sure it was completed by the end of 98'. It's obvious, there were a lot things that were left out. Which is why for Sonic Adventure's international release, they spent 6 MONTHS on it. For SA2 and on, they spend 6 months in pre-production, and 1.5 yrs developing the game. Which is why SA2 overall felt more polished than it's predecessor. (and for those who like SA1 better, I'm talking in terms of engine programming, cutscenes, multiplayer, and graphics. Not design wise, since everyone's nitpicky on that. Even though SA1 had only a hand select few of levels, while SA2 has 31.) So yes, SA1 was rushed. I didn't say it was a bad game.

(which Sonic Team managed to do nicely, with the anime humans. Good thing they rectified this mistake later on

It's not a mistake, it's a different art direction. This is what happens when studios get lots of new staff.

[Indigo Rush]

Development started around Sonic Jam. They talked about creating an RPG like format for the next sonic. Which means they had one year to develop the game. Not only that, but a HUGE amount of staff was drafted to the game, in order to make sure it was completed by the end of 98'. It's obvious, there were a lot things that were left out. Which is why for Sonic Adventure's international release, they spent 6 MONTHS on it. For SA2 and on, they spend 6 months in pre-production, and 1.5 yrs developing the game. Which is why SA2 overall felt more polished than it's predecessor.

Sounds plausible, but source or it didn't happen.

It's not a mistake, it's a different art direction. This is what happens when studios get lots of new staff.

Thank heavens for that then, boring realistic human style is boring.

[Phos]

Because that's what you think. Little have you learned in your time on the Internet that not everything you think is a fact. My own art style is no less copying the style of Pixar as is any characterized human being placed in a three-dimensional environment. There's nothing special about it. You may as well say that they're copying off Dreamworks or Warner Brothers cartoons; it's a freaking cartoon. There's only so much you can deviate from in this situation (which Sonic Team managed to do nicely, with the anime humans. Good thing they rectified this mistake later on)

They specifically described the humans as being "more like a kind of Pixar style" or something like that.

[Indigo Rush]

They specifically described the humans as being "more like a kind of Pixar style" or something like that.

Hm. I think I remember something like that, actually. I suppose, but still cartoon style is cartoon. It's been designed to fit in Sonic's world.

I don't think it's a bad thing, really. Eggman doesn't look too implausible when standing next to Prof. Pickle or any other town member.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[Dr. Mechano]

When you think about it...

2K6 and Unleashed both tried to create uniformity among the human characters. 2K6 was an attempt to make Eggman look like an ordinary, realistic human, while Unleashed was an attempt to make ordinary humans look as implausible and wacky as Eggman.

I personally prefer the latter, although 2K6's Eggman did have a suave, classy vibe.

Edited May 23, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[Cany the hedge]

When you think about it...

2K6 and Unleashed both tried to create uniformity among the human characters. 2K6 was an attempt to make Eggman look like an ordinary, realistic human, while Unleashed was an attempt to make ordinary humans look as implausible and wacky as Eggman.

I personally prefer the latter, although 2K6's Eggman did have a suave, classy vibe.

You know, I never understood what you meant by "Suave" Gordo, mind explaining what does it mean?

[Dr. Mechano]

You know, I never understood what you meant by "Suave" Gordo, mind explaining what does it mean?

I mean that 2006 Eggman had a very... sophisticated air about him, I guess. He seemed different from Eggman's usual goofy fare.

I like goofy Eggman, of course, but it was interesting to see that sort of portrayal too.

[Sean]

Eggman looked terrible in Sonic 2006, but then again, so did all of the main cast - I don't like his more realistic design, but the main problem came from the utterly emotionless, ugly models in the game.

In fact, Sonic was scowling for the whole game. Looked exactly like Shadow's face.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Jake

[redmenace]

Development started around Sonic Jam. They talked about creating an RPG like format for the next sonic. Which means they had one year to develop the game. Not only that, but a HUGE amount of staff was drafted to the game, in order to make sure it was completed by the end of 98'. It's obvious, there were a lot things that were left out. Which is why for Sonic Adventure's international release, they spent 6 MONTHS on it. For SA2 and on, they spend 6 months in pre-production, and 1.5 yrs developing the game. Which is why SA2 overall felt more polished than it's predecessor. (and for those who like SA1 better, I'm talking in terms of engine programming, cutscenes, multiplayer, and graphics. Not design wise, since everyone's nitpicky on that. Even though SA1 had only a hand select few of levels, while SA2 has 31.) So yes, SA1 was rushed. I didn't say it was a bad game.

It's not a mistake, it's a different art direction. This is what happens when studios get lots of new staff.

You're right about SA being rushed and SA2 being polished and having more levels, but they were also done by different teams. And despite this, many of those levels felt like copies of one another. Tails had no redeeming level, all of his are a counterpart of Eggman's and one of Shadow. Rouge has the first and Security Hall, everything else is recycled. Many of the level elements are also the same from one to the other, while SA had a lot of different mechanics and play value to each one.

When you think about it...

2K6 and Unleashed both tried to create uniformity among the human characters. 2K6 was an attempt to make Eggman look like an ordinary, realistic human, while Unleashed was an attempt to make ordinary humans look as implausible and wacky as Eggman.

I personally prefer the latter, although 2K6's Eggman did have a suave, classy vibe.

To each their own I guess, but Sonic 06 Eggman still gives me nightmares and I get really annoyed every time I see him. Sure he looked more sophisticated but boy did he look like a freak out of place. Almost every character model pn 06 pisses me, I only like Rouge's.

Edited May 23, 2009 by redmenace

[Phos]

I don't think it's a bad thing, really. Eggman doesn't look too implausible when standing next to Prof. Pickle or any other town member.

I don't know about that...

Both Eggman and the ice cream vendor are fat men, but they don't match each other visually.

As strange as it might sound, I think something along the lines of the Xbox Live Avatars would fit the visual style better. It might sound almost blasphemous, but keep in mind that Xbox Live Avatars were made by Rare, not Microsoft. I was trying to imagine what either Robotnik or Eggman (I call the designs by different names to avoid confusion) if they were "deflated" while I was fooling around on the dashboard, and I realized that they roughly fit what I was looking for.

Something just blew my mind: They recently added flip-flops, and get a load of their feet:

No toes. But a few things that would have to be done differetly to make it really fit: 3D mouth (the avatars just have textures), white sclera (and perhaps more definition as well), and maybe something with the wrists as well. I

Yeah, that's my Avatar. I'm not keeping the flip-flops, though.

[lounge]

but they were also done by different teams. And despite this, many of those levels felt like copies of one another. Tails had no redeeming level, all of his are a counterpart of Eggman's and one of Shadow. Rouge has the first and Security Hall, everything else is recycled. Many of the level elements are also the same from one to the other, while SA had a lot of different mechanics and play value to each one.

The team that worked on SA1 was at least 3X larger than the team that worked on SA2. Besides, it's common to reuse set environment pieces in other areas. In SA2's case, I don't find it a problem since it's a dreamcast game. However, in levels like Power Plant from sonic heroes, it's unacceptable.

Another reason I don't like the Unleashed humans is because they remind me of the NPC's in Zelda: The Wind Waker. But it wasn't so bad in that game since Link himself looked pretty goofy. It's not only Unleashed. I find humans like the President to be ugly. The GUN commander looks pretty okay in the CG opening, but in-game, he looks like an altered copy of the President.

Human like characters like Merlina and the CG model of Elise are the perfect balance between realism and cartoonish. Maybe not Elise (even though she looks hot in that opening CG movie), but Merlina is a great example of good balance. It's always best to have qualities of both to satisfy both kinds of people. Just like it's important to find a balance in level design with realism and imagination.

Even though the Unleashed humans look more imaginative, and expressive than past stuff. I still can't get over the fact of how ugly they are.

[sock fox]

In SA2's case, I don't find it a problem since it's a dreamcast game. However, in levels like Power Plant from sonic heroes, it's unacceptable.

What.

You should be expecting more from an exclusive title than a multi-platform one.

Another reason I don't like the Unleashed humans is because they remind me of the NPC's in Zelda: The Wind Waker. But it wasn't so bad in that game since Link himself looked pretty goofy.

And Sonic doesn't?

Human like characters like Merlina and the CG model of Elise are the perfect balance between realism and cartoonish.

But Elise isn't cartoony at all. In the slightest. And Merlina is only very slightly cartoony.

[The-Master-Board]

Ugh, Sonic Unleashed's human were so.....terrible? Awkward? Out of place? Crap?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for surealism in Sonic games, in fact I insist upon it! But surrealism in the landscapes, not the humans. Personally I prefer the humans from SA1 and SA2, I saw nothing wrong with slightly animesque Maria, and Sonic '06 looks completely fine to me, no complaints from me about Sonic and Elise side by side, it looked completely believable to be a part of Sonic's world.

But Unleashed's humans..... Whats with that? They don't look like humans, they don't look like anime humans, they don't even look like they should be part of Sonic's world at all. I like the fact that humans looked generic, just humans. It made Eggman stand out as more of a character to be this oddly version of a human. I can see what Sonic Team are trying to do, but rather than copy pasting straight from pixar style they should go with their damn own! Make them look beleivable and in the same style of Sonic style, not some other style.

Or better yet stop messing the continuity more, and keep in line with whats come before it.

Meh, Sonic Unleashed was a huge fail for me anyway: The humans were too cartoony, and the levels were too realistic, resembling our world. Keep Sonic fantasy, not cheap reality rip offs.

[lounge]

You should be expecting more from an exclusive title than a multi-platform one.

I didn't mind how they copied some environments like White Jungle from Green Forest, because the gameplay was so polished, and the levels weren't tedious. Plus they made 31 levels. I'd imagine anybody would copy some environments. It's common in the industry. Unless you have like 9 level designers. Like in Zelda's case.

And Sonic doesn't?

Nope. Sonic looks cool.

And Merlina is only very slightly cartoony.

That's the point. It's a good balance.

[Solid SOAP]

Nope. Sonic looks cool.

He's a big blue hedgehog with giant white gloves and huge red shoes with stripes on 'em. Pretty hardcore.

[lounge]

He's a big blue hedgehog with giant white gloves and huge red shoes with stripes on 'em. Pretty hardcore.

That's the definition of hardcore, man. You forgot to mention his stylish spines and his sweet mouth movement animations.

[sock fox]

I prefer the realism-cartoon contrast to be between environment-characters rather than environment/characters-characters. All the major characters are gorgeously bizarre-looking, I don't see why they should have drab mannequins as backup characters.

[SuperStingray]

That's the definition of hardcore, man. You forgot to mention his stylish spines and his sweet mouth movement animations.

Sonic isn't goofy, but he isn't serious either, attitude or not. I mean, he's fallen face first like Wile E. Coyote about three times in this series.

[lounge]

I never said he was serious.

[Dr. Mechano]

I never said he was serious.

But the point is, if Sonic looks cartoony and utterly ridiculous, why not the humans of his world?

Granted, I'm okay with anime-styled humans too, I suppose. But for this series, I prefer the exaggerated cartoon look.

Edited May 24, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[SuperStingray]

But the point is, if Sonic looks cartoony and utterly ridiculous, why not the humans of his world?

Sonic may be a cartoon figure, proportions and body attributes and all, but "utterly ridiculous" is a massive exaggeration. I mean, yes, the whole "blue talking hedgehog with gloves and shoes" thing may not help his case, but he has a respectable character and a rather powerful posture.

[Dr. Mechano]

Sonic may be a cartoon figure, proportions and body attributes and all, but "utterly ridiculous" is a massive exaggeration. I mean, yes, the whole "blue talking hedgehog with gloves and shoes" thing may not help his case, but he has a respectable character and a rather powerful posture.

Oh, sure he's respectable. His personality and characterization proves that much. Same goes for Eggman.

I refer purely to physical description- Both Sonic and Eggman look pretty ridiculous. Not that that's a bad thing by any means.

[Rusty Spy]

Sonic may be a cartoon figure, proportions and body attributes and all, but "utterly ridiculous" is a massive exaggeration. I mean, yes, the whole "blue talking hedgehog with gloves and shoes" thing may not help his case, but he has a respectable character and a rather powerful posture.

His point was:

If Sonic+Surreal=Good

then why Humans+Surreal=Bad?

Edited May 24, 2009 by VirgoTheCougar