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The Sonic topic of utter positivity

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If the Sonic series wasn't around, the world wouldn't have been introduced to this wonderful, wonderful man:

500px-Sonic%20Generations.png

This guy. I would easily go as far to say that Doctor Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik is my favorite video game villain of all time, and we have the Sonic series to thank for this delightful egg-shaped delinquent!

Edited by Jolly Joker Frost

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Of course, this is not the first time we've seen Sonic demonstrate this quality. There is another example of Sonic's selflessness in Sonic and the Secret Rings. When Sonic held up the White World Ring to open the palace gates, he collasped. It's very obvious that Sonic is in a lot of pain when he collasped, yet he refused to let his guard down nor allow Shahra to worry about him or place the blame on herself for Sonic being struck with that flame. Sonic didn't want to show that he was in pain; therefore the half-hearted chuckle trying to cover it up, which he was trying to do so Shahra wouldn't worry about him. This selfless attitude of Sonic deeply impressed me, as he was more concerned about Shahra's morale and the last person he was thinking about was himself, despite all the pain he was in.

I think the entirety of SatSR was one big crowning moment for Sonic character development-wise, especially regarding his selflessness as you said. As a matter of fact, the way Sonic was depicted in SatSR is what actually started off my love for his character.

Before SatSR, I never really paid a lot of attention to Sonic. He was just....there. Whilst I certainly didn't dislike him whatsoever, he didn't particularly stand out to me either. I was a hardcore Knuckles fan believe it or not and he was the character who got most of my attention. Then SatSR came along after the travesty that was SONIC 2006 (with it's Sonic AND Knuckles-demeaning ways) and focused primarily on giving limelight and development to Sonic for the first time in years. And boy did I fall hard for this character.

That is one of the reasons why SatSR is such a special game to me.

My other reasons for loving SatSR as much as I do is because back in early 2007, I would play it with a fellow SSMB'er named Moonlight Silence at her house on her Wii before I got my own Wii and copy of SatSR in the Christmas of that year. We'd take it in turns to endure it's hardcore difficulty and advance the story. She's just as much a sister to me as my blood-related sisters and that was a pretty fond memory. I still remember how we'd laugh at the opening cutscene when Sonic was snoring and then had his little sneezing fit. We found that quite amusing.

The last reason is the fact that when I initially started playing the game, it was so insanely hard that I never could envision fulfilling the task of attaining every gold medal for every mission. When I got the game and truly got to grips with it, I made it my mission to overcome that initial outlook so I persevered, levelled Sonic up to level 99, learned the vast intricacies of the game's skill system and mission structure inside-out and finally, after much toil and frustration, achieved what I thought was impossible;

S1010086.jpg

That still stands as the most insanely hard to attain and my proudest game achievement ever.

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Tomorrow on 15/12/2012 exactly a year after Sonic CD was re-released, SEGA will announce Sonic CD DLC. This will consist of Desert Dazzle, Final Fever and playable Knuckles.

 

No don't laugh! There is more chance of this happening than the world ending on the 21/12/2012. Oh wait, no it's the other way round actually.....

 

Still, only being positive (just not realistic tongue.png). I love the effort put into last years enhanced re-release and DLC would be the icing on the cake.

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Did I mention I love Sonic Night of the wherehog? becuase I do.
 
 
A few things I forgot to mention; Sonic's transformation looks dramatic and bloody painful, very beleivable how he slowly collapses like he's fighting to stay standing, it helps that his vocalisations(which wern't changed from the Japanese version at this point) are really believable. When the transformation just comes into full swing, and he looks up the moon, real dramatic shot, not only a great reflection of the moon in his eyes, but you see his pupils shrink.
 
Someone run me through why the ditched 3D rendered eyes again?
 
 
When Sonic used the camera on the ghosts and they mimick the poses Sonic made for their photos, holy crap Sonic is pissed off, he is definitely grumpier as the wherehog.
 
NOTW and Unleashed had some darn good character expressions and animations. Sonic's model animation in Unleashed is smoother than the finest silk and the subtlety behind his body language suited his often quiet nature as well in that game. The way he looks in this cutscene...that level of stricknen-ness just doesn't seem possible for Sonic yet it was done so well blink.png

1huno1.png

Poor Sonic....but amazingly well done expression through that model.
 

Yeah poor little guy looks in such a bad state, looks like he's still struggling to stay conscious and stand up even though he mostly thinks' he's royally screwed.

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Yeah poor little guy looks in such a bad state, looks like he's still struggling to stay conscious and stand up even though he mostly thinks' he's royally screwed.

Yeah, I felt really sorry for him there. But the expression was really well done indeed, and it helps bring out Sonic's character, did so throughout the entire game if you look closely: His playfulness when he's juggling with the Chaos Emeralds, the open acceptance of the challenge when he's about to face Eggman's robots, and of course what Verte called stricken-ness in that scene. However, I think there's more to it than Sonic being stricken and in pain. Yes, he is apparently in a lot of pain and struggling to hang on, but at the same time you can see his fighting nature better in that scene than in most others (short of Black Knight's ending, perhaps). He's in a really bad shape and he knows it's looking bad, but he's still trying to get up again. Because Sonic doesn't give up. Something I adore about his character.

 

...

 

I also love the in-game expressions on the Unleashed model. Sure, it's most obvious in the cutscenes, but also in the actual game Sonic's animations and expressions are really lovely and you can see a lot of care went into making the character come to life. For me it's one thing that makes playing Unleashed so much fun even after having played each stage probably a few hundred times. Sonic really looks like he's enjoying himself running through the stages and I find that enjoyable to watch. happy.png

 

When you're sky diving after riding the rocket in Chun Nan and you can see Sonic fall towards the camera you see him grin, the flips he does in mid-air between homing attacks look artistic, and yet in some way really natural for him. Even his quills sway with the wind and momentum. A lot of his moves in Unleashed (also in Colors and Generations) look natural. When he falls from a certain height and lands on his feet he drops a little in his knees and holds out his hands for stablitiy, when you're on a rail and you lose too much speed in a turn he rows his arms to help himself balance... and I totally love his idle animations.

 

Sonic (and other characters, too, when they were playable) has always had so nice idle animations. The tapping of a foot and pointing forwards from Sonic 1 on is an absolute classic, as is laying down and pretending to fall asleep when you let him stand around for a little longer. It's one of the first things I try out when I get a new game: I place Sonic on some nice spot to look around and wait what he does. Sure, you could say something like the characters doing stuff when the player fails to press any buttons isn't required or even less serves a purpose in the game, but in my eyes it's one thing making the characters feel, well, like characters and not lifeless shells you control through the stage. It's a lot nicer that way, I think. 

 

In cutscenes expressions always come across even nicer, and I guess the latest games did a really good job with them, Sonic's transformation in Unleashed is a great example. It hurt looking at that...

There are a nicer examples for great expression in the model, too, just look at Sonic Colors. The scene where Sonic talks to the broken robot and Tails happens to see him. Sonic stiffens, turns his head to Tails, quills all ridged, eyes wide and a face that really screams 'oops'.

 

So, yeah, the model animators do some good work making Sonic and friends come to life in the games for us, and I love them for that. smile.png

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I actually saw NotW in 3D at Tokyo Joypolis about three years ago. I'm not sure I'd even heard of it (or at least I didn't know much about it) so I was pretty surprised when they handed me the ticket. (I also didn't expect there to be as much interest in it. The only other time I managed to spot Sonic in Japan, he was pointing the way to the toilets at Club SEGA. =P) It was super awesome to see Sonic in a film with such high production values, and certainly played a part in restoring my hope for the franchise.

Edited by Pawn Crackers

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^ I would love to see that with 3D glasses and everything, that must have been so awesome.

 

On another note, I'm fangirling over 'live life' again after I found out that it uses the Knight-of-the-wind leitmotif ( I don't know if you'd call it a reprise, as it only uses a small part of the tune) Honestly, this song, the game's theme for Sonic the gotta-go-fast hedgehog, how does THAT work? Like a match made in heaven that's how.

Edited by Mysterics

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I can say, it's refreshing to see some positivity about Sonic.

 

My positivity comes from Sonic Colors. This game really gave me a fun time, from the colorful levels, to the kickin' music. There's just so much about this game that I like. I'd go on a full review, but I'm afraid I don't have that kind of time. ^^"

 

Anyway, this game was one I really had fun with since Heroes. With that, it gets my praise.

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On another note, I'm fangirling over 'live life' again after I found out that it uses the Knight-of-the-wind leitmotif ( I don't know if you'd call it a reprisal, as it only uses a small part of the tune) Honestly, this song, the game's theme for Sonic the gotta-go-fast hedgehog, how does THAT work? Like a match made in heaven that's how.

God, it took me forever to figure out that 'Live Life' uses that tune from 'Knight of the Wind'. The Misty Lake music is also build on the same melody. It makes the game's soundtrack feel so much more like a full concept, something thought through from the beginning to the end.

 

And 'Live Life' is such an amazing ending theme. Sonic games often have really nice music and I always enjoy watching  the credits after completing the game and listen to the music. 'Live Life' really nailed the mood of the game's ending to me. It's a thoughtful ending, with a bit of an almost melanchonic undertone due to Merlina, but put up right next to it you have Sonic's positive outlook on life and its ways, and the mood, the melody and the lyrics of the song fit so perfectly to that. To me it helped giving the ending even more meaning.

 

Aside of that, it's a really beautiful ballad. One of my favorite songs I think. happy.png

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I'm going to state here my absolute love, LOVE, for Archie's Sonic series, both of them. I'm continued to be amazed at how ready so many people here are to belittle it, do they really understand how hard it is to make a comic as successful as Archie's, albeit one based on a (generally seen as by the uninitiated) kids videogame? I mean, Sonic Universe is about to hit its 50th issue, that's a milestone for comics from Marvel or DC, let alone one from a small publisher aimed at a nice market inside a nice market.

 

Archie's comic is actually what reignited my love for Sonic. I have always been a big Sonic fan but, as happens in life, my fandom waned a little after the 'death' of the Dreamcast and my move to PC gaming. Then a few years ago I was looking for a new comic series to pick up as one I was reading had recently ended. I spotted Archie's Sonic on my comic store's shelves and decided to give it a go (I hadn't even looked at an issue since the early 90s).

 

Upon reading it I was instantly struck by just how well realised this world was and how solid the characterisations were. All of the characters had well defined personalities and motives. Sonic might be the hero, by Ian Flynn isn't afraid to show that he can sometimes be reckless and arrogant, pissing off his friends and the Kingdom at large. I LOVED the issues when Tails finally got sick of Sonic treating him like a little kid and put him in his place. Really, the nuances of the characters are so well done and believable. It's also nice to see that Flynn makes changes that stick for a good length of time, such as the recent Naugus rule. I really enjoyed how he displayed the people of New Mobotropolis so quickly turning on Nicole, it was a great social comment and we've seen this kind of thing happen in the real world recently.

 

I agree with some that the art can be a bit of a mixed bag, and I do feel that Yardley is one of the weaker artists. I really enjoy Steven Butler's art, and of course Spaz (when he does stuff, which isn't as often as I'd like).

 

I read a LOT of comics from many publishers and Archie's Sonic continues to be one of my favourites and one of the first I read when I get my shipment of books each month. Going back to it reminded me of how much I loved, and missed, the Blue Blur. It had me pulling out my Mega Drive to play the games again, got me into retro gaming and started me collecting Sonic stuff. And it's all been WAY past cool! laugh.png

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I'd also like to say... Egg Fleet is an absolutely lovely level and quite possibly one of my favorites in the series. Sonic Heroes had its ups and downs in level design, but look at this.

Muhahaha! You fools must all have a death wish? Witness this invincible battleship, built by the hands of a genius! Its power, unmatched throughout the universe!

Starting off with Eggman gloating about his heavily-armed aerial battleships while giving us a vision of the the fleets, each team giving their speech as well. On the surface you can just look at its very concept: you hop from airship to airship, gradually tearing through the whole armada before landing on his flagship. And how is that, alone, not a refreshing and visibly "cool" concept? Even more when you look at the sheer scale of it:
pDZhK.png

 

Once again featuring the iconic blue skies of SEGA games this sees a level full of badniks, set pieces, gadgets and much more as you blast through advanced E-2000 models and patrols of Egg Pawns under constant bombardment by the cannons. This level alone is quite neat, but it would be unfair to not include the second part of the sequence...

IeOMW.png

 

Yes, Final Fortress. Set in a leviathan of steel larger than anything Robotnik had ever done before, it is a whole stage of pure mayhem and action as you use all the techniques you learned throughout the game for each character type. I love the dynamics of this stage with the self-destruct sections, the bottomless drops, closing/falling wall sections, elite enemies like the hammer knights... not to mention how well-designed the level flow is, making it all very fun and challenging. But my favorite part has to be the soundtrack, as the background theme is mournful, ominous, and fitting to the dark corridors and lightning storms. To top it off, the Egg Emperor boss fight ends the phase with a with a flourish.

 

Sonic Heroes may not be my favorite Sonic game; objectively it may not even be a great game. But this whole sequence has been one of my most memorable experiences within the Sonic series.

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I'd also like to say... Egg Fleet is an absolutely lovely level and quite possibly one of my favorites in the series. Sonic Heroes had its ups and downs in level design, but look at this.

Starting off with Eggman gloating about his heavily-armed aerial battleships while giving us a vision of the the fleets, each team giving their speech as well. On the surface you can just look at its very concept: you hop from airship to airship, gradually tearing through the whole armada before landing on his flagship. And how is that, alone, not a refreshing and visibly "cool" concept? Even more when you look at the sheer scale of it:

pDZhK.png

 

Once again featuring the iconic blue skies of SEGA games this sees a level full of badniks, set pieces, gadgets and much more as you blast through advanced E-2000 models and patrols of Egg Pawns under constant bombardment by the cannons. This level alone is quite neat, but it would be unfair to not include the second part of the sequence...

IeOMW.png

 

Yes, Final Fortress. Set in a leviathan of steel larger than anything Robotnik had ever done before, it is a whole stage of pure mayhem and action as you use all the techniques you learned throughout the game for each character type. I love the dynamics of this stage with the self-destruct sections, the bottomless drops, closing/falling wall sections, elite enemies like the hammer knights... not to mention how well-designed the level flow is, making it all very fun and challenging. But my favorite part has to be the soundtrack, as the background theme is mournful, ominous, and fitting to the dark corridors and lightning storms. To top it off, the Egg Emperor boss fight ends the phase with a with a flourish.

 

Sonic Heroes may not be my favorite Sonic game; objectively it may not even be a great game. But this whole sequence has been one of my most memorable experiences within the Sonic series.

 

I really really loved the aesthetic design of Egg fleet, It really gave the sense that you were REALLY high, the lower part of the background with all the clouds and landmasses is surprisingly realistic for PS2, with all the airships passing by from every angle makes it quite impressive, I also love Sonic's 'semi-reply' to Eggman's gloating.

"Alright Eggman, lets get this party started." on 'paper' it looks like the usual energetic challenge to a bit of competition, but it has this dark undertone that Eggman shouldn't dare confront him.

 

 

I honestly think Ryan was a good actor in Heroes, (but it was *ahem* tainted by bad dialogue) and performed as the direction required, so when the line was some fake anvilicious aesop about teamwork, he piled on the ham, but when the line was actually in-character he sounded really good, it was quite  clear he was under new direction ,as not only had he improved,  the actual voice was a completely different kettle of fish.

 

"Eggman has some serious problems, just look at that statue."

 

Knuckles's VA who's name I forget also seemed to suddenly get better for Sonic Heroes, though this is quite possibly more to do with portrayal and direction as Knuckles is much more cheerful and sarcastic, not so much " Unlike Sonic I don't chuckle."

 

Deem Bristowe was always awesome, though tended to have a bit too much of an 'obviously evil' direction to it, whereas Mike Pollock it's more 'eccentric middle-aged man, possibly a bit nuts' direction thank frankly fits him a hella lot more.

Will probably talk more on VA's later, tired

Edited by Mysterics

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Indeed, for all it's problems, I did like most of the visuals of the zones in Heroes since - until Colours - it was probably the closest the main console games had gotten to real Genesis-esque worlds, and the Egg Fleet/Final Fortress was definitely wonderful, despite the difficulty.

 

Too bad it was Metal Sonic all along though.

Edited by Dr. Crusher

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I actually enjoyed it was Metal Sonic all along. It was for once a twist I didn't entirely see coming. After knowing the end though, you can find a lot of little hints towards who's the real enemy all over the game and I find that kind of neat. Heroes' story suffers from the little thought that went into meaningful dialogue, but the story isn't near as bad as people make it. Also, some of the in-game dialogue is better and more in-character than the cutscenes. happy.png

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I actually enjoyed it was Metal Sonic all along. It was for once a twist I didn't entirely see coming. After knowing the end though, you can find a lot of little hints towards who's the real enemy all over the game and I find that kind of neat. Heroes' story suffers from the little thought that went into meaningful dialogue, but the story isn't near as bad as people make it. Also, some of the in-game dialogue is better and more in-character than the cutscenes. happy.png

 

Metal Sonic becomes a dragon, while Robotnik's locked up in his own base. Also, the beginning of Amy's decay.

 

It's not really my thing. I'm all for making Metal Sonic do things, but not that.

 

But anyways, tying into Heroes levels, I did like some of the visual appearances of a few ShtH stages, mainly Circus Park and the cyberspace levels, and I'd like to see something like them in a future game.

Edited by Dr. Crusher

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Sonic 06 has the best story ever.

... what do you see in it? Because all I see in it are plotholes, recycled plotlines, plotholes, a Mary Sue who keeps getting kidnapped, plotholes, an inexplicably popular villain who is a tremendous idiot, plotholes, a character whose entire previously stated backstory was thrown out the window to have her in the game, plotholes and an overall terrible, bad fanfiction-esque mess that managed to retcon itself out of existance!

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But anyways, tying into Heroes levels, I did like some of the visual appearances of a few ShtH stages, mainly Circus Park and the cyberspace levels, and I'd like to see something like them in a future game.

On that note, Circus Park was easily the best level in the game. First of all it's the one that best accomplishes its basic premise - being slight darker than the rest of Sonic while still being recognizable as a Sonic level. While most levels in Shadow the Hedgehog cling to horrible overexposition, this one presents it in tone and style. Or how about its unique atmosphere, in such that it was cheerful and full with little acts. The music was distinct and fitting to the colorful visuals and over-the-top design.

 

And, I can't help but mention... Robotnik was lovely as always as he gloats about the awesome zone he crafted, even asking if Shadow is enjoying the theme park. And stealing rings from all around the world to make his own fun-land? Oh yeah, that's one of the simplest yet one of the most Eggman-ish plans the doc has pulled.

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... what do you see in it? Because all I see in it are plotholes, recycled plotlines, plotholes, a Mary Sue who keeps getting kidnapped, plotholes, an inexplicably popular villain who is a tremendous idiot, plotholes, a character whose entire previously stated backstory was thrown out the window to have her in the game, plotholes and an overall terrible, bad fanfiction-esque mess that managed to retcon itself out of existance!

I wonder if Sonic Team knew that the game would be a colossal failure due to it being rushed for a November release, and made the game retcon itself so they could save the franchise by pretending the game never happened.

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I don't think I've really gushed about SatAM yet.

 

Despite the fact that I do find it's dark tone to be a tad pretentious, it's iteration of Robotnik to be nothing more than a parody of the character he was based off of and the way I feel that it is overrated and hasn't aged all that gracefully, I still have a very great fondness for it.

 

I vividly remember tuning in to Channel 4 and TCC when I had cable back in the mid 90's eagerly awaiting an episode. I recall that TCC made no distinction between AoStH and SatAM and only seemed to advertise AoStH. They even played AoStH's credits to SatAM episodes believe it or not blink.png So It'd be up in the air as to what the channel would show. Back then, I loved both shows though nowadays I find AoStH to be an utterly abrasive show.

 

So anyways...SatAM. That show had a great hold over my imagination as a young'un. I found and I still find it's settings and it's characters sans Antoine (Whom I find quite irritating) to be utterly endearing and the fairly mature writing and emotional depth of the characters to be quite compelling. It's plotlines were decently developed and it's animation pretty cool. From the rather lovely settings of the Great Forest/Knothole, Mobotropolis, Drood Henge, Floating Island etc to the much darker polluted hell holes like Robotropolis, such environments contrasted each other refreshingly. Such an awesome planet Mobius is.

 

I personally found Sally to be a great character. She was an interesting foil to Sonic and had a realistic degree of emotional depth not to mention had her shortcomings as well as great qualities to match. I think she's amongst the best characters that western Sonic media ever gave rise to alongside Bunnie.

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I don't think I've really gushed about SatAM yet.

 

Despite the fact that I do find it's dark tone to be a tad pretentious, it's iteration of Robotnik to be nothing more than a parody of the character he was based off of and the way I feel that it is overrated and hasn't aged all that gracefully, I still have a very great fondness for it.

 

I vividly remember tuning in to Channel 4 and TCC when I had cable back in the mid 90's eagerly awaiting an episode. I recall that TCC made no distinction between AoStH and SatAM and only seemed to advertise AoStH. They even played AoStH's credits to SatAM episodes believe it or not blink.png So It'd be up in the air as to what the channel would show. Back then, I loved both shows though nowadays I find AoStH to be an utterly abrasive show.

 

So anyways...SatAM. That show had a great hold over my imagination as a young'un. I found and I still find it's settings and it's characters sans Antoine (Whom I find quite irritating) to be utterly endearing and the fairly mature writing and emotional depth of the characters to be quite compelling. It's plotlines were decently developed and it's animation pretty cool. From the rather lovely settings of the Great Forest/Knothole, Mobotropolis, Drood Henge, Floating Island etc to the much darker polluted hell holes like Robotropolis, such environments contrasted each other refreshingly. Such an awesome planet Mobius is.

 

I personally found Sally to be a great character. She was an interesting foil to Sonic and had a realistic degree of emotional depth not to mention had her shortcomings as well as great qualities to match. I think she's amongst the best characters that western Sonic media ever gave rise to alongside Bunnie.

Problem was, it felt like Sally was the main protagonist of the show. Now I didn't watch this programme extenstively, but it just came across that way. It felt kinda like a show, with a well developed cast, with Sonic added in to make people interested (as he was about the most popular thing in existance back in the 90's).

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Problem was, it felt like Sally was the main protagonist of the show. Now I didn't watch this programme extenstively, but it just came across that way. It felt kinda like a show, with a well developed cast, with Sonic added in to make people interested (as he was about the most popular thing in existance back in the 90's).

 

Oh I quite agree. I've always said that a more apt title for SatAM would be "Princess Sally and the Freedom Fighters - Starring SEGA's Sonic the Hedgehog" and that the Sally and her FF's did take roles away from Tails and that very little of the show was identifiably "Sonic" but despite that, I still found Sally and SatAM as a whole a great character and a great show respectively.

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Also, the beginning of Amy's decay.

 

 

I actually really liked Amy in Heroes. Yeah, there were a few issues I had with her (notably the bit where she says Sonic isn't going to get out of marrying her and then proceeds to try and beat the crap out of him for no god damn reason at all), but even still I think she's a pretty good character. I liked the leadership role she had.I liked the small bit of support I saw her give her teammates. I liked she had an actual active role in the storyline. I actually consider Heroes one of my favorite portrayals of Amy.

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