Jontron

[Meta77]

11 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

ISIL and other groups believe in authoritarian theocracies (you think they're all for gay marriage and women's bodily autonomy?) This is the same side of the coin as Christian extremists who go on shooting and bombing sprees at black churches and abortion clinics, or the ones who declare war on and proceed to invade middle eastern countries, or the ones in Africa attacking and killing women and LGBT people.  

Overall, Islamic extremism and alt-right/white nationalism are both decidedly far right-wing, just like the animal liberation movement and the Symbionese Liberation Army are both far left-wing. Them having different focuses doesn't mean they aren't close to one another on the political spectrum. One type is just committed by brown people and is less systemic so we're more afraid of it and give it it's own label. However, right-wing religious oppression is right-wing religious oppression regardless of who you worship.

You're one to appeal to empathy when every time someone outlines a problem in American society- even one they personally experience- you brush it off because it doesn't affect you. I'm far less afraid of ISIL down here in Georgia than I am a random nutcase with a gun.

Lol your a state next to me. If anyone should fear rednecks it's me lol

13 minutes ago, Volphied said:

You mean like the Boston Marathon bombers that you mentioned in your post? During questioning, Dzhokhar admitted that they were self-radicalized and unconnected to any outside terrorist groups. The majority of islamic attacks in the west are also done by solo or small groups of "poorly raised youth".

Fact remains that right wing terrorists have killed many more Americans than Islamic terrorists in the last 15 years.

Well we are in a war with one group atm overseas the other not so much. Racist will be a racist. I honestly enjoy hearing someone call me a n**. Makes me laugh cause if that's how they get their jollies in life I feel bad for them

[Volphied]

7 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Well we are in a war with one group atm overseas the other not so much.

The American far-right is waging a war on ordinary Americans too, and law enforcement agencies rightfully recognizes them as the bigger threat to the US than some islamic nutjobs on the other side of the planet:

http://europe.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743?rm=eu

“Law enforcement agencies in the United States consider anti-government violent extremists, not radicalized Muslims, to be the most severe threat of political violence that they face,” the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security reported this past June, based on surveys of 382 law enforcement groups.

The problem is getting worse, although few outside of law enforcement know it. Multiple confidential sources notified the FBI last year that militia members have been conducting surveillance on Muslim schools, community centers and mosques in nine states for what one informant described as “operational purposes.” Informants also notified federal law enforcement that Mississippi militia extremists discussed kidnapping and beheading a Muslim, then posting a video of the decapitation on the Internet. The FBI also learned that right-wing extremists have created bogus law enforcement and diplomatic identifications, not because these radicals want to pretend to be police and ambassadors, but because they believe they hold those positions in a government they have created within the United States.

[Meta77]

36 minutes ago, Volphied said:

The American far-right is waging a war on ordinary Americans too, and law enforcement agencies rightfully recognizes them as the bigger threat to the US than some islamic nutjobs on the other side of the planet:

http://europe.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743?rm=eu

“Law enforcement agencies in the United States consider anti-government violent extremists, not radicalized Muslims, to be the most severe threat of political violence that they face,” the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security reported this past June, based on surveys of 382 law enforcement groups.

The problem is getting worse, although few outside of law enforcement know it. Multiple confidential sources notified the FBI last year that militia members have been conducting surveillance on Muslim schools, community centers and mosques in nine states for what one informant described as “operational purposes.” Informants also notified federal law enforcement that Mississippi militia extremists discussed kidnapping and beheading a Muslim, then posting a video of the decapitation on the Internet. The FBI also learned that right-wing extremists have created bogus law enforcement and diplomatic identifications, not because these radicals want to pretend to be police and ambassadors, but because they believe they hold those positions in a government they have created within the United States.

Interesting read. I'll read more after show in a few

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

11 hours ago, Meta77 said:

Thanks for info but wasn't dylann like just a solo I hate blacks guy. No one was backing him nor using a religion as a means just a poorly raised backwoods youth. Isn't he dead yet?

That's still right-wing terrorism, done by what's called a "lone wolf". People called it "terrorism" when the San Bernado shooting happened by a solo "I hate gays" ISIL guy, so it's only fair to call Dylann Roof's shooting an act of terrorism as well.

And no, he isn't dead yet, but hopefully he will be soon.

[goku262002]

I knew what I was stepping into but jesus this thread is getting pretty insane.

I have no dog in this fight but I'm just wondering if its a good idea to even post the Jontron show for awhile? at least until these issues around his views are simmered down.

I will say this, Jon got himself into a hole that, at this point, doesn't look like he will ever get out of and if he does will still have the stains from it for a very long time. he intertwined his personal views with his job as a Youtuber and now its all blown up his face. his reputation is damaged and never will fully recover and honestly he may just have to stop being a Youtuber and take an internet time out just to have all this calm down, at least for a year or 2.

I hope that newer and upcoming Youtube funny men will learn lessons from Jon and Pewdiepie and not involve Politics in your job, in any form not your twitter not your facebook and not the very thing that earns you money. If you can't discuss it maturely and don't know what the hell you're talking about then stay out of it.

[Volphied]

34 minutes ago, goku262002 said:

I have no dog in this fight but I'm just wondering if its a good idea to even post the Jontron show for awhile? at least until these issues around his views are simmered down.

I will say this, Jon got himself into a hole that, at this point, doesn't look like he will ever get out of and if he does will still have the stains from it for a very long time. he intertwined his personal views with his job as a Youtuber and now its all blown up his face. his reputation is damaged and never will fully recover and honestly he may just have to stop being a Youtuber and take an internet time out just to have all this calm down, at least for a year or 2.

Simmer down? What's more likely is that JonTron will just double down on his neo-nazi shit. That's what happens when you mix absolute ignorance with absolute confidence. JonTron is incapable of admitting that he might be completely wrong, which is why he'll continue to whine on both twitter and youtube about how non-whites are ruining America.

[shdowhunt60]

4 hours ago, Volphied said:

What's more likely is that JonTron will just double down on his neo-nazi shit.

I can't believe that JonTron is literally Hitler.

[CleverSonicUsername]

Yeah I don't think Jon will simmer down or walk things back at all. His subs aren't really hurting, and if anything the harder he leans into it, the more he secures an alt-right crowd. People have made careers on intentionally saying shitty things, so it hardly spells his death as a youtuber. Especially in today's current climate, saying really shitty ill-informed things no longer has the same level of consequence it once did.

As far as I can tell, the only way he could really be adversely impacted by this is losing sponsorships and friends/colleagues.

Personally, I don't care if a youtuber voices their political views, so long as those views don't eclipse their content.

[Tornado]

On 3/16/2017 at 2:17 PM, Meta77 said:

While I agree lumping a entire group of people is wrong  but trying to compare what's been going on in the world next to right wing attacks?? As a bit far

Ignoring the very specific legal standing that the term has (which is why I take serious issue with the charts posted below), terrorism is essentially committing acts of violence in order to further some political goals. Shooting up a church or school isn't necessarily terrorism. Being a Muslim guy and doing the same isn't necessarily terrorism. Shooting up a church explicitly to further white supremecist views that you wrote out in a manifesto in reaction to perceived slights by African Americans is quite a bit.

On 3/16/2017 at 2:42 PM, Volphied said:

At best, those graphs are misleading. At worst they are deliberately so. I'd need to see what specifically those are referencing to know which is which; but the numbers on the first one don't play out at all and based on how the categories are "grouped" I suspect it is the latter.

6 hours ago, goku262002 said:

I will say this, Jon got himself into a hole that, at this point, doesn't look like he will ever get out of and if he does will still have the stains from it for a very long time. he intertwined his personal views with his job as a Youtuber and now its all blown up his face. his reputation is damaged and never will fully recover and honestly he may just have to stop being a Youtuber and take an internet time out just to have all this calm down, at least for a year or 2.

I know this message board tends to be a bit of a political echo chamber, but come on. I'd think the last political cycle would have made it clear, even if Hilary had won, how little the majority of people actually care about this sort of thing (not feel strongly against or for the Alt-right views Jon seems to hold, but just don't care) for it to have any serious blowback on him unless he snaps himself out of it.

[Volphied]

8 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I can't believe that JonTron is literally Hitler.

If it quacks like a duck.

[Tracker_TD]

There's a statement, then. It's... a thing? 

[JezMM]

I think it's fair to give him a chance to redeem himself, but he hasn't done so here.  It all reeks a bit of "I'm sorry... BUT to be fair I was JUST sayin'..."  I don't think he's the person the mob has made him out to be, but he definitely needs to take his own advice on learning, since his views are still coming from a place of ignorance (that "racism" against whites is exactly the same as racism against non-whites).  I understand and can forgive where he's coming from as I used to see it in a similar way (was a bit "race is invisible to me, it doesn't matter!", one of those guys), but learned better.

However I have little confidence that he will change those views, since I get the impression that he's already been presented with the same information/views he needs to learn the difference but poo-poo'd them based on his own logic, so yeah.

Still, this is better than him embracing the person that people made him out to be but... he could easily still go that way depending on the response to this damage control.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 hour ago, Tracker_TD said:

There's a statement, then. It's... a thing? 

"I said a lot of stuff that could be misconstrued in a lot of different ways."

No Jon, you really didn't. You were crystal fucking clear what your standpoint was, and when called out you doubled, triple, quadruple downed on it. Also got a good laugh out of him excusing his debate as not being prepared enough to form a coherent argument. Nah man, you've been spouting this kind of conspiratorial anti-immigrant alt right dogshit for weeks now. It's not the format, it's you.

Fuck Jontron.

Edit: On the up side, weeks to make a video is a snappy turn around for him.

[KHCast]

3 hours ago, JezMM said:

I think it's fair to give him a chance to redeem himself, but he hasn't done so here.  It all reeks a bit of "I'm sorry... BUT to be fair I was JUST sayin'..."  I don't think he's the person the mob has made him out to be, but he definitely needs to take his own advice on learning, since his views are still coming from a place of ignorance (that "racism" against whites is exactly the same as racism against non-whites).  I understand and can forgive where he's coming from as I used to see it in a similar way (was a bit "race is invisible to me, it doesn't matter!", one of those guys), but learned better.

However I have little confidence that he will change those views, since I get the impression that he's already been presented with the same information/views he needs to learn the difference but poo-poo'd them based on his own logic, so yeah.

Still, this is better than him embracing the person that people made him out to be but... he could easily still go that way depending on the response to this damage control.

When he says things like minorities are killing America, rich blacks cause more violence than poor whites, there's no institutionalized racism despite evidence, hard for me to NOT think he's the kinda guy the mob says he is. Not to mention his friendships being severed and people within his circles saying he's an ass isn't helping.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

There's a statement, then. It's... a thing? 

Caught with his pants down and he's fumbling with the zipper.

Yeesh, don't try and "apologize" by claiming something that's blatantly in the wrong ethics wise is supposedly "misconstrued" when dead to rights, you're caught. Doesn't open a good avenue for communication in the future.

[JezMM]

18 minutes ago, KHCast said:

When he says things like minorities are killing America, rich blacks cause more violence than poor whites, there's no institutionalized racism despite evidence, hard for me to NOT think he's the kinda guy the mob says he is. Not to mention his friendships being severed and people within his circles saying he's an ass isn't helping.

Hrm... while it's true he basically said "look I'm not racist" and did provide examples of such in the vlog, which I was trying to focus on the positives of when I wrote that post, he didn't really take any of that nonsense from the stream about black americans back either did he huh...  Yeah, fair enough, you're right.

[Pawn]

Eh, this response was pretty much what I expected. He had a few days to construct some poor man's PR and still failed to actually apologise in a meaningful way.

Then he plugs his videos at the end. Lol.

[Volphied]

Hey JonTron.

If you don't want people to call you a neo-nazi, don't say neo-nazi shit in the first place.

Educate yourself, ffs.

[SSF1991]

On 3/17/2017 at 2:40 PM, goku262002 said:

I hope that newer and upcoming Youtube funny men will learn lessons from Jon and Pewdiepie and not involve Politics in your job, in any form not your twitter not your facebook and not the very thing that earns you money. If you can't discuss it maturely and don't know what the hell you're talking about then stay out of it.

See, here's the thing. It depends on who you talk to and what their political views are. Some people are more vocal about it than others. Some are angry about the situation and others are okay with it. Some feel it's necessary to speak up on social media about it because it's their right to, and others feel they'd rather talk about things that aren't so toxic. Some choose to be specific in where they talk about it, others don't.

The problem isn't, IMO, that people are being political. Everyone's being political right now due to the current climate and people want more to join in. The problem is that people don't have boundaries. Or manners. They don't watch what they say and how they say it. They don't keep in mind why people follow them in the first place. They get really aggressive when someone disagrees with them. Or their views are just extremely controversal due to how offensive they are. When they apologize for upsetting people, they come off like they don't mean it. Or they're not being that political but they're being an ass about things that some would consider political. For example, JonTron's views. And they are just...wow. Pretty damn harsh and just wrong on so many levels. It's disgusting, and yet It's not even political. There's nothing political about basic human rights, something that JonTron's views do not suggest he wants for certain people.

I rarely get political on Twitter, and when I do, it's usually in a vague fashion or on Facebook, where all my political views are. However, my Facebook is more closed off from the public and I know those that can see my FB don't seem to have a problem with me being vocal on there, not to mention what my political views are as a whole. And the latter (I guess it would be considered liberal views to others) is pretty obvious on Facebook. Hell, you could probably get an idea of what they are if you looked at who I follow on Twitter. But nevertheless, I don't focus on politics. My main content is gaming, especially Nintendo and Sonic. Because that's what people follow me for. So I put politics on the backburner. But I sure as hell balance the two on social media and maintain boundaries.

JonTron didn't get in trouble because he's being political. JonTon got in trouble because he's being an asshole.

[Volphied]

JonTron: "I was misinterpreted!"

EARLIER

Destiny: "So you don't want people to immigrate and change the 'white European culture'. Okay, what if you had some brown people who moved here and perfectly assimilated and embraced the culture, why does it matter if they're white or brown?"

Jontron: "It would be great if they assimilated...but then...eventually they'd enter the gene pool"

 

Obviously we're just misinterpreting what Jon really meant. He's not a neo-nazi, he just wants to preserve the purity of the white gene pool.

[KHCast]

Ironic since he's not actually white. He reminds me of the black old guy from Boondocks that's self hating and adores white people.

just...ugh that entire sentence reeks. Us needing to assimilate and not interact sexually with whites in fear of tainting a "pure" species...I can't believe I laughed and enjoyed this guys content...

[CleverSonicUsername]

25 minutes ago, Volphied said:

Destiny: "So you don't want people to immigrate and change the 'white European culture'. Okay, what if you had some brown people who moved here and perfectly assimilated and embraced the culture, why does it matter if they're white or brown?"

Jontron: "It would be great if they assimilated...but then...eventually they'd enter the gene pool"

 

 

We need some kinda new Godwin's Law for racists. Like, as soon as you mention the purity of the gene pool, the argument is over, you're a racist.

[Conando]

37 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Ironic since he's not actually white. He reminds me of the black old guy from Boondocks that's self hating and adores white people.

just...ugh that entire sentence reeks. Us needing to assimilate and not interact sexually with whites in fear of tainting a "pure" species...I can't believe I laughed and enjoyed this guys content...

Well clearly Jon wants to get into white heaven.

I guess I can KIND of understand self loathing when my race predominantly voted for Trump, then again if it were 1900 I'd be inside out black. NOT LETTING THAT ONE GO, JON.

Anyway, back to the actual point here. I think the biggest thing about this whole "apology" that bothers me is that people are acting like it actually was one. We're getting entirely too polarized these days if you can interpret trying to poorly backpedal and then shilling your channel as an apology.

 

[KHCast]

So jim sterling made a article regarding this

 

Cant say I disagree with him. Youtubers can't keep playing this game of sometimes wanting to be treated like other celebrities, and then going "well we aren't actual celebrities people shouldn't focus on us like them" whenever they're called out. And the fact guys like TDB spend more time on the media and how they're bad than actually focusing on the controversial things these YouTubers do and say is almost like he's treating that like it's fine, is quite disappointing. 

 

Oh oh and if you want a laugh, read the comments. Tons of people defending jontron saying he's not racist, sjw's are overblowing this, it was taken out of context, he makes actual points and has factual evidence to back up his claims. I'd be willing to bet most of these people are right leaning in some fashion or actually hold racist, Islamaphobic, etc. views themselves. Cause not sure how any of what Jontron said could be taken out of context. 

"

Alright, how is JonTron is any way racist, even given what he said, admittedly poorly worded as it had been?

Because there actually is a difference between believing that the United States should be a nation of white European heritage/ethos (which is not at all what Jon said), and making the point of how it'd be difficult to accommodate people outside the country into the cultural melting pot of the US, who have beliefs and have been raised by a culture that is completely contrary to Western democratic values, without assimilation (the latter a basic summary of what his views are on the topic).

Really, explain to me point by point how the latter view is racist at all? As I myself do not get how one'd reach that conclusion."

Just one example of how crazy this is. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

"How is Jon in anyway racist...?"

Well for starters, how about the part where he said the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man? Or about "diluting" the goddamn gene pool with people outside a certain racial group? How in the blue fuck is that stuff not racist?