Jontron

[Tornado]

7 hours ago, KHCast said:

Oh oh and if you want a laugh, read the comments

So did you post this because Jim Sterling wrote something you wanted to share (which was based on a pretty lousy premise to begin with, and wasn't justified very well from there) or because you wanted to quote people in the comments of that article to mock here? Because there are a lot of fucking stupid assholes in that comment thread, but there isn't much of a correlation between the stupidity of the comments and how much they agree with Jon or "are right leaning".

 

 

While ignorant alt right insular self-important people exist on the internet (and YouTube has always seemed to have a disproportionate amount of them, so it is little surprise they are lining up in this flare up); so do liberal witchhunts by pretentious whiners with nothing better to do with their time. The stupid PewDiePie shit Jim talked about was one.

 

 

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Well for starters, how about the part where he said the richest black man commits more crimes than the poorest white man?

Bill Cosby went through the entire 1970s and 1980s raping pretty much every passably attractive women he came across. I am white and nowhere near as wealthy as Bill Cosby and have no plans on raping anyone. Ergo, that statistic is true. Obviously, that's a pretty facile argument, yes? But that's confirmation bias borne out of something tangible but merely very stupid (in this case, bad usage of anecdotal information) rather than necessarily malicious.

 

There are plenty of statistics that say what Jon said in that statement is true that Jon could have come across without even deliberately seeking them, because that's the beauty of statistics. Hell, on the last page someone posted two charts with data (of questionable veracity!) showing that Islamic fundamentalists by themselves have killed only twenty fewer Americans since 9/11 as all other right wing domestic terrorists in the United States put together; but that emphasis I just put there clearly wasn't the point trying to be made when those charts were posted.

[KHCast]

Not sure how something like him saying the gene pool would be tainted because of non whites, institutionalized racism and discrimination isn't a real thing or that other cultures can't mix as easily with "American culture" would have tangible evidence to back what he says that doesn't stem from inherent racist views. Him having something to partially back him on one of his views (a questionable statistic with no official recorded ground for the record) doesn't give him any better standing in the eyes of people when most of his views don't have the same footing. Unless you wanna go ahead and defend every point he made or argue in their favor. Having racist views isn't accidentally inherited, you don't stumble upon a couple questionable statistics and suddenly start saying the shit he did; it stems from many factors. You can't hold views like he does, believe them, and claim not to see certain groups as lesser. That's like saying "I don't hate gays, but they're a threat to my kids"  The stats found and way he used them, could easily with common sense be seen as not credible to the claims he made, so yes, I believe to a degree he knew how weak his arguments and  "facts" were, and was looking for any statistic that could help back them to make him seem more credible.

 

also, the concept that jim was focusing on that youtubers try playing both roles(famous celebrities and indie small media outlets) when it comes to fame and controversy can't continue. If YouTube demands to be taken seriously as a entertainment medium, they can't keebhaving people attempt to devalue when shit like this comes up by going "yeah, but we're youtubers. There's better things to focus on". They need to realize when they say something shitty, people are gonna talk about it and see them in a more negative light like any celebrity.

[Nix]

Remember when JonTron got a voice role in Yooka-Laylee?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-03-23-playtonic-removes-controversial-youtuber-jontron-from-yooka-laylee

Quote

"We recently became aware of comments made by voice artist JonTron after development on Yooka-Laylee had been completed," the firm told GamesIndustry.biz in a statement.

"JonTron is a talented video presenter who we were initially, two years ago, happy to include as a voice contributor in our game. However, in light of his recent personal viewpoints we have made the decision to remove JonTron's inclusion in the game via a forthcoming content update. We would like to make absolutely clear that we do not endorse or support JonTron's personal viewpoints and that, as an external fan contributor, he does not represent Playtonic in any capacity. Playtonic is a studio that celebrates diversity in all forms and strives to make games that everyone can enjoy. As such, we deeply regret any implied association that could make players feel anything but 100% comfortable in our game worlds, or distract from the incredible goodwill and love shown by our fans and Kickstarter backers."

whoops

[pastelspectre]

i don't really agree with a lot that jon is saying.. :/ but, i mean..i still think his videos are funny? does that make me a bad person?

[Nix]

6 minutes ago, Skye said:

i don't really agree with a lot that jon is saying.. :/ but, i mean..i still think his videos are funny? does that make me a bad person?

It doesn't make you a bad person.  Jon's undeniably talented, and his videos are pretty good.  I personally can't separate the art from the artist in this situation, so I choose not to support him.  You and everyone else who continues to enjoy his content are welcome to do so.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

42 minutes ago, Nix said:

Remember when JonTron got a voice role in Yooka-Laylee?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-03-23-playtonic-removes-controversial-youtuber-jontron-from-yooka-laylee

whoops

Note to self: Don't let any amount of fame or recognition go to one's head and think you're not gonna get hit with consequences of such.

[Nepenthe]

One of the most prominent Banjo-Kazooie fans in gaming had an actual voice role in the franchise's spiritual successor being partly worked on by the original devs.

And it came crashing down because he couldn't keep his mouth shut about da immigrintz.

I say gotdamn.

[KHCast]

Jesus if that ain't ironic karma lol.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

51 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

One of the most prominent Banjo-Kazooie fans in gaming had an actual voice role in the franchise's spiritual successor being partly worked on by the original devs.

And it came crashing down because he couldn't keep his mouth shut about da immigrintz.

I say gotdamn.

A bout of karma most fitting nonetheless. And I predict not the last nor least of what's due to come. Especially if he keeps this nonsense up with stuff like phony apologies.

[Nast]

.

[Volphied]

19 hours ago, Tornado said:

While ignorant alt right insular self-important people exist on the internet (and YouTube has always seemed to have a disproportionate amount of them, so it is little surprise they are lining up in this flare up); so do liberal witchhunts by pretentious whiners with nothing better to do with their time. The stupid PewDiePie shit Jim talked about was one.

Except that Jim said in the article that the shit PewDiePie did was still a very bad idea. SInce KHCast already responded to you better than I could, I'll just quote my favorite part of Jim Sterling's article that deserves to be repeated as long as dumb youtubers get into trouble:

 

Quote

Basically, YouTubers need to face the reality that with the fame and fortune they worked so hard for comes caveats. Once you start influencing millions of minds, of course people are going to notice when you do something that crosses a line. PewDiePie, JonTron, and those defending them seem taken aback, horrified even, that the likes of the Wall Street Journal would bother with them, that they’re being focused on instead of “real issues” without realizing they are the issue now.

They’re the next generation of celebrity, and guess what, celebrities get talked about.

Celebrities get talked about a lot.

“Sometimes people are gonna say things you don’t like,” explained Boogie in his video. “People are gonna have ideas and opinions that you don’t enjoy.”

This is true and it works both ways. One opinion and idea that several big YouTubers don’t enjoy right now is that YouTubers are relevant enough to make headlines and become international controversies. One opinion and idea that several big YouTubers don’t enjoy right now is that, no, you can’t share your racist beliefs and expect nobody to argue back.

The Internet has warped the idea of “free speech” to mean “speech without consequence” and that’s simply not what it is.

Absolutely, JonTron can share a Trumpian view on immigration and claim discrimination isn’t a problem, but other people have the exact same right to call him out on it. Given how insular YouTube communities can be, it’s easy to see why some might believe they’re free from the consequences of speech, but as their entertainment empires grow and more people become aware of them, they’re going to find those consequences are very real and they hit like a sack of bricks.

Guess some people should prepare for more "liberal witchhunts by pretentious whiners with nothing better to do with their time". Coz these youtubers are now celebrities, which means they're gonna be scrutinized the same way all celebrities are.

[Meta77]

1 hour ago, Skye said:

i don't really agree with a lot that jon is saying.. :/ but, i mean..i still think his videos are funny? does that make me a bad person?

No your not q bad person. His early stuff is funny noting will change that aspect

[JezMM]

It's a damn shame that it came to this but in the sense that it's a damn shame that Jon made a tit of himself, because it really was a match made in heaven before all this went down.

Playtonic are free to do whatever they like with their game though, Jon was nothing to do with the project at the time that everyone paid their money towards it so no betrayal towards backers has happened here.

Thing is, if someone removed texturework done by an unknown artist due to personal differences in a video game, no-one would really care.  But since it's voicework from a famous person and regarding personal differences on a hot button issue, obviously we're gonna get people complaining even though it's... kinda none of their business.

 

Ultimately his absence from the game will affect his defenders/apologists significantly less than his presence would affect those who have been deeply hurt by his beliefs and values either directly (I saw a black fan on reddit talk about how much it upset them to hear a youtuber they were a fan of literally say that he thought they were more likely to commit crime because of their skin colour), or indirectly (obviously the fact that his views are shared by people whose actions ACTIVELY oppress such groups), so I think it's only fair that the people who are going to be more affected take priority.

[Meta77]

8 minutes ago, NastCF said:

I did lose a lot of respect for JonTron with these recent events, but what Playtonic did seems super petty to me. I could understand if their collaboration was on-going and they decided to call it off, but to retroactively remove his work from a finished game? Just seems silly to me.

That said, Jon has absolutely brought this on himself. This is a project I'm sure he was very passionate for, and he needed this as a reminder that running his mouth without thinking can have tangible consequences.

For me it is a thinker. On w

One hand what he said is wrong and on that it was probably annoying to them having a bunch of young people harassing them angry he was in it only after this incident. It's all just dumb but still no one should fear speaking their mind even if wrong. I mean hell I love dating Asian and white women and a lot don't like that to much but instead of screaming and kicking at those that say they don't agree I just shrug and keep doing it. 

MMY phone tried to say eat instead of date lord that could have went south fast

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I see a lot of people claiming that Jontron's rights to free speech were violated, and that this is censorship......give me a frigging break!

Playtonic Games are exercising their own right to free speech. They aren't censoring Jontron's beliefs. They're showing all to well in kind that they don't support racial ideals like the ones he spouted and they certainly aren't gonna reward them either. Plain and simple.

[Meta77]

3 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

I see a lot of people claiming that Jontron's rights to free speech were violated, and that this is censorship......give me a frigging break!

Playtonic Games are exercising their own right to free speech. They aren't censoring Jontron's beliefs. They're showing all to well in kind that they don't support racial ideals like the ones he spouted and they certainly aren't gonna reward them either. Plain and simple.

This is true it is also true there is no uniform opinions sometimes. Such as say killing. Most will agree if you come into someone's house or yard and kill them you should be punished. But say also someone might not agree with ones views on immigration free roaming. Banning a person who disagrees one points in that topic would essentially be silencing them cause it's not your view. It's also why we have or should have a system where facts can be discussed in a civil way unlike our current system of bikering political chest beating kids and adults both wanting to undermine the other. It's a wild world:/

[Nast]

.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

19 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

This is true it is also true there is no uniform opinions sometimes.

And your point by stating the painfully obvious is?

19 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Most will agree if you come into someone's house or yard and kill them you should be punished. But say also someone might not agree with ones views on immigration free roaming.

It's really an ineffective argument trying to correlate two different tiers since one of those actually circles around murder first and foremost! Illegal immigration does not deserve to be compared to the actual taking of another's life.

19 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Banning a person who disagrees one points in that topic would essentially be silencing them cause it's not your view.

If this is your idea of what happened with Jontron, then again, you're severely mistaken. He wasn't "silenced" but was properly booted off the voice cast for beliefs of the unethical class. He can talk all he wants about it, but to no surprise, it's yielded consequences that he'll have to bare.

19 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

It's also why we have or should have a system where facts can be discussed in a civil way unlike our current system of bikering political chest beating kids and adults both wanting to undermine the other.

So when Jontron gets punished, contradicting your claims that he wouldn't get much comeuppance just because he had numerous supporters sticking with him no matter what, you only choose now to actually turn an eye to system and blame it for that. That's borderline conspiracy thinking, as if there's some big political war behind the scenes that "undermined" Jon.

Again, it's Playtonic exercising their right to free speech in response to Jon exercising his and exposing himself for the racist that he is.

[Badnik Mechanic]

36 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Banning a person who disagrees one points in that topic would essentially be silencing them cause it's not your view. 

Is this a joke post!?

He's been removed from the project because he said some dumb shit and the people behind the project don't want to associate with him.

They're not banning his right to say anything, they're distancing themselves from condoning it!

[KHCast]

Kinda disappointed how people are trying to pass off Jontrons views as inoffensive opinions that shouldn't result in any consequences. I mean, no sorry, don't get to express racist views that can negatively effect many of his fans that admired him, and try and also still try and get whatever you want. That's not how this works. This isn't some "Sonic 06 is good that's my opinion respect it" scenario. This is referring to actual people. People shouldn't be telling those upset to "get over it and just ignore his views and enjoy the content". This is shit that can effect younger audiences that watch him, it can cause emotional distress, etc. There's actual harm in when big names like these with large fanbases express views like this. It's not just a "political difference". It's not just a different opinion that we need to learn to tolerate and accept. to act as if it's such is bullshit and is literally allowing racism to casually walk unnoticed.

[Meta77]

12 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Is this a joke post!?

He's been removed from the project because he said some dumb shit and the people behind the project don't want to associate with him.

They're not banning his right to say anything, they're distancing themselves from condoning it!

But there removing him from a already finished portion.  distancing would be condemning what he said. By your tones you really need to just speak. Sounds like your really taking it personal with jon.

11 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Kinda disappointed how people are trying to pass off Jontrons views as inoffensive opinions that shouldn't result in any consequences. I mean, no sorry, don't get to express racist views that can negatively effect many of his fans that admired him, and try and also still try and get whatever you want. That's not how this works. This isn't some "Sonic 06 is good that's my opinion respect it" scenario. This is referring to actual people. People shouldn't be telling those upset to "get over it and just ignore his views and enjoy the content". This is shit that can effect younger audiences that watch him, it can cause emotional distress, etc. There's actual harm in when big names like these with large fanbases express views like this. It's not just a "political difference". It's not just a different opinion that we need to learn to tolerate and accept. to act as if it's such is bullshit and is literally allowing racism to casually walk unnoticed.

 Racism only affects you if you let it affect you. You have rights. Some calls me a nig  online eh let them stress themselves to death wanting to yell it lol

[Diogenes]

Saying you don't condone the opinions of a trash heap doesn't mean much if you leave the trash heap in your product. Finished work or not, they are under no obligation to keep his voicework in the game.

[Badnik Mechanic]

6 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

But there removing him from a already finished portion. distancing would be condemning what he said.

I don't understand, what are you complaining about now? First it was that they're silencing his views... now it's that they're distancing themselves too much? 

 

Tell you what... this can be explained very easily.

All you have to do is explain why removing the voice work of someone who read from a script provided by someone else is silencing that voice actors personal/political/religious beliefs.

That's all you have to do and then you'll be correct in your stance. Literally just that.

Quote

By your tones you really need to just speak. Sounds like your really taking it personal with jon.

Is this the joke post?

[Meta77]

Just now, Mayor D said:

I don't understand, what are you complaining about now? First it was that they're silencing his views... now it's that they're distancing themselves too much? 

Is this the joke post?

IM not complaining lol. Just asking a question again to me saying just talk and stop assuming emotions are what i run on

But Yes mayor all my post to you are jokes let's leave it that  XD. I'm not trying to ruffle your chest

[Badnik Mechanic]

1 minute ago, Meta77 said:

 stop assuming emotions are what i run on

The irony here is astounding.

Also at any point are you going to explain why removing the voice work of someone who read from a script provided by someone else is silencing that voice actors personal/political/religious beliefs?