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Level cliches that Sonic Games Haven't Used Enough or Haven't used at all?


jon93

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I was in the middle of typing this up in the " thread when it got locked, so I'll post it here:

A medieval castle type zone is one trope that's rarely ever done in a Sonic game. Sylvania Castle is the only example I can think of, but as it was mostly an Aquatic Ruin rehash that didn't have many unique gimmicks, I'll post what I thought could be done with the medieval castle trope as a zone 1 or zone 2 level in a Sonic game:

The colour scheme would probably be green for the grass, and the stone of the castle would probably be a greyish purple like Marble zone. The sky could be any colour, I suppose, but if this was to be a first zone in a Sonic game, I suppose blue sky would be a good move.

As far as badniks go, I was thinking of a "knight on horseback" type deal, where first the 'knight' has to be destroyed and then the horse. The same "knight" badnik could be used on its own with a shield meaning that it can only be destroyed when it's attacking Sonic.

As for level gimmicks, I was thinking of something along the lines of these:

catapult.jpg

This catapult could be used as a means of allowing Sonic to ascend to higher paths. It would work in a similar way to the springs in Casino Night Zone where you hold the jump button and release it to send Sonic flying.

2402341001_08e90df2a9_z.jpg?zz=1

This cauldron wagon would work in a similar way to the minecarts in Sonic 4 and Sonic 2 8-bit, but giving Sonic a bit more control. Holding the dpad/thumbstick in the opposite direction would slow the cart down (or stop it), and while on a hill, holding down will allow you to coast faster.

As for the boss, I was thinking of something like a more futuristic, robotic, cartoonish version of this:3385082051_daf615f0d8.jpg

This would be either be driven by Robotnik or be self-driven. It will chase Sonic, who is still in a cauldron wagon, but can now walk about and jump. The robot loco will travel a little faster than the chauldron wagon. Whenever it comes into contact with the wagon, it will bump it which will cause damage to Sonic. This boss cannot be "raped" as the recovery time would be too long for this to be possible, so the only way to defeat the boss would be to jump on the robot once, then jump back into the wagon, and then repeat that method 7 more times.

Edited by OldFreddy
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My ideal haunted castle stage is one that starts out just outside in a Mystic Cave sort of area in the dead of night. Then you proceed to make your way inside a Hang Castle sort of area with weird wacky gravity manipulation shit (because I never get tired of it). Afterwards there may be some torch lighting / sunlight mechanic borrowed from Lost Labyrinth / Sandopolis to combat ghosts.

After combating the evil supernatural forces, you finally escape the castle and are greeted to a beautiful sunrise as you reach the goal.

Edited by Chooch
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My ideal haunted castle stage is one that starts out just outside in a Mystic Cave sort of area in the dead of night. Then you proceed to make your way inside a Hang Castle sort of area with weird wacky gravity manipulation shit (because I never get tired of it). Afterwards there may be some torch lighting / sunlight mechanic borrowed from Lost Labyrinth / Sandopolis to combat ghosts.

After combating the evil supernatural forces, you finally escape the castle and are greeted to a beautiful sunrise as you reach the goal.

Minus a few details, that's Mystic Haunt! You start outside in a graveyard in the dead of night. Then you proceed inside a castle sort of area with torch lighting and Sandopolis ghosts. After combating the evil supernatural forces, you finally escape the castle and are greeted by Crisis City mk.2. For all you can tell, it could be sunrise.

Okay, so similarish... I love the idea of more haunted stages. It's a shame that Asteroid Coaster wasn't the haunted stage it's map location and map music made it out to be. In fact it's a shame that Colours didn't play up the theme park gimmick more.

Edited by Blue Blood
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An Ice level that's also a fire level, it's main gimmick is melting ice and you just can't stand around, you have to constantly be moving otherwise you'll die.

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An Ice level that's also a fire level, it's main gimmick is melting ice and you just can't stand around, you have to constantly be moving otherwise you'll die.

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Most ice/fire stages are of the "mostly ice stage with lava here and there" variety.

Perhaps for Sonic, it could be the opposite. You're going through a seemingly normal volcano stage at first, until Robotnik uses some stereotypical freeze machine to fuck up the surroundings... or something. Sort of like Lava Reef Act 2, only with actual ice.

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I'd like to see a forest stage that's actively try and kill the player with giant fly traps, bramble patches, and poisonous pollen.

Another one is Eggman's lair. A big fancy castle with various traps for unwelcome guests. There would be a hallway with various paintings of Ivo's family, with Gerald's being scribbled all over because of the revenge plan in SA2.

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I'd like to see a forest stage that's actively try and kill the player with giant fly traps, bramble patches, and poisonous pollen.

Another one is Eggman's lair. A big fancy castle with various traps for unwelcome guests. There would be a hallway with various paintings of Ivo's family, with Gerald's being scribbled all over because of the revenge plan in SA2.

Which would be poetic, what with Robotnik's own descent into madness starting from Unleashed. Like grandfather, like grandson.

Anyways, while this is bumped, I might as well bring up two of my old zones:

Monochrome Maze Zone (title pending)

Being one for all kinds of tastes, Robotnik has decided to design his latest fortress with the always classic chess motif. The majority of the place is nothing but black metallic walls and not much else, not unlike Castle Bleck in Super Paper Mario. The floors are, predictably, checkered black and white. The outside areas are - strangely enough - also colourless, the ground being almost snow-white, and the sky being pitch black, with no stars in sight. The music would ideally be something akin to an inverted Tricky Maze for Lost World.

However, there are other thematics and loads of traps, giant dominos attempting to crush you and cyber sharks infesting the waters being two of them. Badniks in this zone take the form of game devices such as dice, and Egg Pawns would look like upperclass gentlemen with top hats and canes. Bizarrely, there would also be creepy neon Robotnik heads (think Sigma's final form in Mega Man X2, but smaller) trying to eat you.

Going with the "Negative Lost World" feel, there would be a segment in which you have to solve a puzzle whilst repeatedly hopping on and off a fellow snake-like chap. But this is Robotnik's mechanical snake, so saying it's less than friendly would be an understatement. Unless you consider wacky Chain Chomp-esque chases friendly. In that case, I have just the fetish fansite for you.

Speaking of which, water works the same as usual, but with the presence of the aforementioned cyber sharks (and you can't kill them, just like the beetle robot in Egg Quarters), you'd rather not be in there. It doesn't help that the underwater sections are just as dark and gloomy as above, being reminiscent of the DKC3 underwater levels. And on top of that, no air bubbles. Because Robotnik finally got savvy and realised that having air bubbles in his base and trying to kill cute anthropomorphic creatures don't normally mix. (Still plenty of rings around though...)

Near the end, there'd be a section reminiscent of a hedge maze, only with thin metal walls, all with specific colours of the rainbow. The walls would be constantly moving at certain paces, speeds, and orders... mostly. Sort of like that one part in the last level of Jedi Power Battles, but better.

This would be a finale - or close-to-finale - zone, so the boss would have to be a grand one. I've not completely thought it out yet, but the arena would be a giant chess board, and of course there'd be giant pawn/knight/etc statues trying to kill you in various ways depending on which type it is. Robotnik, unsurprisingly, would be manning the king, and the board itself would join in, with flamethrowers, spiked pillars, and all other sorts of sneaky tricks.

There would then be a second part involving a colossal, Egg Emperor-like machine. And, just like in Sonic 1 & 2, both of them must be beaten without rings. Final battles should be David VS Goliath, not Goliath 1 VS Goliath 2. (...well, for me personally anyways...)

Also, for harmless cameo purposes, some of the giant statues would slightly resemble some of Robotnik's notable creations. For example. the rooks would look like a more medieval Johnny, and the bishops would resemble G-Merl.

Sentiment Sanctuary Zone

Somehow, someway, Sonic's/Tails'/whoever's egg-beating adventures have brought them to a technicolor landscape that appears to manifest as emotions... on the outside it seems like nothing more than just a mesh of colours and ideas, but in reality, there is far more to it than even that. Exactly how does this place exist, and how does it work? Who made it? And what does Robotnik plan to do here? There's only one way to find out.

Unfortunately, as I just said, Robotnik is here, and his current plan involves something to do with it, so it's to be expected that he's "remodified" the place a little.

The idea is for this to work a little like End of the World, in that in it's single act, there are sections based on certain kinds of feelings, and you must jump, spin, and bust your way through each and every one of them (the emotions all being in seperate parts, incidentally, is Robotnik's work, and normally the place is more... "combined"). They each resemble "tunnels" like the Mach Speed section in Kingdom Valley, only they come with their own thematics and traps, and are made with some sort of liquid light energy rather than water. Also like End of the World, the music would change depending on what part of the level it is you're in. Here's how it would go (maybe):

You start off on a single technicolor road along a black void. And I mean, black. As in, there is literally nothing apart from the road you're standing on, almost exactly like the SMK Rainbow Road. There is no music. Aside from a 1-Up at the very back, there's nothing here, so all you can do is march forward. Suddenly - inexplicably - a portal appears. It is in the shape of a phantom mask, and it looks like it's laughing. Jump in it.

The first sector would be based around fun and laughter, the tunnel being yellow. The scenery will remind you of zones like Toy Kingdom, Sweet Mountain and Music Plant, with many harmless and innocuous things to play around with. That is, if it weren't for the Badniks, which in this part take the form of things like bouncing balls, jack-in-the-boxes, ice cream, and more.

At the end, another one of those phantom mask portals appear, this time with a look of shock. Jump on in.

The second sector would be based around surprises and the unexpected, the tunnel being green. The scenery looks like it'd belong in Knuckles Chaotix, with the likes of clown and rubix cube Badniks on your tail as you guess what nonsensical metaphorical meaning this part is meant to secretly be about.

Yes, the end harbors a phantom mask portal. But rather than laughing or being shocked, this one looks puzzled.

The third sector would be based around confusion and mystery (sadly, I haven't thought of what colour could fit the tunnel that hasn't already been used). Despite still being in these "tunnels", this one feels slightly more subterranean, with things like crashed U.F.Os and dinosaur bones all over the place. The Badniks would include question marks and abstract Salvador Dali-worthy paintings.

You'd be right if you suspected a phantom mask portal near the end. This one looks... rather mad.

The fourth sector would be based around anger and hatred, the tunnel being red. This is one of the most difficult parts, and it takes the form of a charred wasteland. Lava's erupting all over as if the place itself was sentient, and if that's not keeping you on your toes, the spontaneous earthquakes will. The Badniks would resemble rather creepy (but still Sonicy of course) and demonic creatures, and the place overall represents Robotnik's undying desire to see the primary source of 95% of his anxiety die a painful and humiliating death.

Can you tell what it is yet? Yep, phantom mask portal, now with a look of fear.

The fifth sector would be based around fear and frights, the tunnel being purple. The ghosts may be robots as well, but they sure are convincing. But it's not just all about the paranormal, as there's also more traditional fears - heights, for example. And don't forget the Badniks, which have been kind enough to look like such comforting things as giant spiders.

Suddenly, Mephiles! Just kidding, it's only another phantom mask portal. But this one looks like it's ready to cry...

The penultimate sector would be based around sadness and despair, the tunnel being dark blue. You appear to be in a graveyard... all sporting the names of Sonic characters old and new on the tombstones. This is of course one of Robotnik's petty attempts at playing with the player character's own emotions, but you'll be having none of that. The snow is gently falling from the foggy sky, and despite all the crying teddy bear and teardrop Badniks rampaging around, the whole place feels abandoned.

What ho, phantom mask portal! This one's thankfully far more humble looking than his previous peers.

The final sector would be based around happiness and joy, the tunnel being cyan. To put it simply, it's a giant goddamn flower field, just like in Mother 3 or Paper Mario. There may be a few flower-themed Badniks hiding within in an attempt to ambush you, but this is the easiest part in the whole zone. Enjoy the scenery, enjoy the music, enjoy the breather.

After this, one final mask portal awaits. But this one is grinning, sports a moustache, and has a somewhat Roosevelt-esque appearance. Wonder why.

You're back at the technicolor road in the black void. The music has stopped, and once again, all you can do is run, run, and run some more, as you spot Robotnik's core within this domain in the distance.

The penultimate boss before fighting Robotnik would be the Tails Doll, in an attempt to make him actually worthy of praise.

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Sonic gets trapped inside a huge robot that is currently wrecking havoc across a city. You slide down his oil pipes dodging fire and eletricity. Then you reach a part where there is badnik workers trying to escape the robot, but they don't forget about you! They will throw spare parts to knock you down. Get past them and you'll meet the level gimmick. The self-destruct buttons. There are four in total and they are spreaded around the place, click all of them and a countdown will start. You will ride a motobug and see a robots trying to attack you dodge all of them and you'll escape the robot!

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I'm a fan of combining level tropes. Triple Trouble's Mecha Green Hill for example, one all too common theme flipped on itself. It's like a vampire movie... set in the Vatican. Take something ordinary and give it a lot of flair. Oil Ocean is another great example.

I like the idea of sewers. Tidal Tempest bad future is kinda like a sewer. I want some really dirty water level, like toxic or just filthy water, yellow water, and pipes with rust and stuff, vents and fans. It'd be like a reverse Wing Fortress to Eggman's final base.

SonicSaturn_Background.jpg

I always post this damn picture in these kinda topics but look at it. It reminds me, I like swamp levels too. Yes to whoever said enchanted swamps. Something with a lot of purples and greens. I'll raise you ghosts though. A haunted swamp. What about ghost badniks?

Another strange trope is the glass level. It's only in a few games I love but it's got this surreal quality I miss recently. Secret Rings had a glass highway in the last level and it was a beautiful moment. Glass highways or dunes or whatever is something I want more of.

mqdefault.jpgcrystalegg.png

Edited by American Ristar
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Bleg, Fire and Ice would not blend well at all. The colours would look so ugly.

Red and Blue compliment each other really well.

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An Ice level that's also a fire level, it's main gimmick is melting ice and you just can't stand around, you have to constantly be moving otherwise you'll die.

Something like ShiverBurn Galaxy from SMG2?

Red and Blue compliment each other really well.

It actually does. The contrast created by linking the 2 strong primary colors would make the level in itself very memorable.

The closest example I can think of in a Sonic game is Lava Reef act 1 and act 2 - Where act 1 is all red in color, and shortly after you play act 2; which is all blue.

That's probably why Lava Reef tends to be a fan favorite.

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The key is, of course, to make the combination natural. You can't just take a standard ice level, pour some lava over it and call it a day.

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Red and Blue compliment each other really well.

Its actually Blue and Orange (not really a huge difference) which go well together. Plus, Ice is more of a white-ish blue, than just blue. It does indeed have the potential to look rather nice though.

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Its actually Blue and Orange (not really a huge difference) which go well together. Plus, Ice is more of a white-ish blue, than just blue. It does indeed have the potential to look rather nice though.

"Goes well together" does not necessarily equal "is the opposite in an RGB scheme". Red and blue can be a better combination than red and green, for example.

That said, a fire/ice level would work really well if it was a normal lava level freezing over time, as Dr. Crusher said. Think of flows of lava that slowly freeze over and then become walls (because that's what happens), so it would be a level whose layout changes the more time you spend in it. This would be perfect for hiding secrets and opening alternate paths smoothly.

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But, since we are here, let me show you this again:

Gravity Pull Zone

GravityPull.png

I didn't place any badniks or rings for a reason, nor did I specify what each item box does. Now, on to what the objects are:

explanation.png

Now, the first section I'd like to drag your attention to is this one:

1stsection.png

There are two points here: first, the player should be able to see the end of the stage (the signpost, the huge ring, whatever) from the starting point, but not the item box. I ask you. Will the player want to see what's to the left? Well, some of them may, some may not. But I won't move a finger to call his attention and say that there could be something to the left. Rings, badniks, everything could be a giveaway. So, if the player gets to the end and sees the item box, there will be the sensation that he didn't explore everything - and, better, s/he'll feel stupid about it because it as there all the time. I suppose this should be able to enhance replay value.

Second, it's important to start a level showing off your gimmicks (the mini black hole, in this case), just to tell the player how they work without harming him/her. This way the game becomes more intuitive.

The second important section is this:

2ndsection.png

There are three ways from here. To the left, downwards and to the right. If the player takes the left or the bottom path, s/he'll inevitably reach a trigger. If s/he chooses the path to the right, there is a possibility that the first trigger s/he'll face will be the last one... and I don't want that, because it's too threatening to be the first one to meet and I want the player to be prepared by this time. It's obligatory, anyway. So, in theory, only experienced players seeking speedruns should come here (and I'm not even sure this would be the fastest way anyway). That's why I probably should put a skill toll here - the spikes are an example, but there could be a badnik "guarding" this path or, on the other hand, I could attract the player with visible, small rewards on the other paths. This relates with that principle I talked about, in which the paths which are hardest to reach usually become the easiest to cross - it's not always "more rewards, more difficult to stay there".

Another section:

3rdsection.png

I put those two item boxes there to attract the player to the other 4 ones that he can't reach. Some rings may be necessary to keep the interesting alive (like a trail of... I don't know, candy. Didn't a fairy tale use something like this?). I think that's how you stimulate exploration: "holy cow, 4 delicious item boxes... but how do I get there?" If you take a look, you'll realise it's a long way to reach these (more on this later). But~! Some players are more prone and have more iron will than others, but eventually one ill have to look everyhere to find a way. And it's optional, which prevents loads of frustration (even if not completely).

Now, on the teleporters (required to reach the 4 item boxes placed outside of the maze). I didn't put any order between them. But I did make them visible, yet enigmatic (those two, side by side with an item box in-between). I wonder if this was a good choice. I mean, inevitably the first one will have to be that one, down there. It think it's the only possibility, but I'm not sure. Anyway, Sonic CD did a lot of this: show you something, leave you ondering just hat the heck that might be... and I find it interesting, even though it may look displaced sometimes.

Moving forward:

4thsection.png

It is possible to blaze through this level. But~! Go ahead. Try it and see what happens. If you're reckless enough or have set a strategy beforehand, you can cross the center of this level and make it in record time. But, in order to do this, you have to avoid dying. Twice. And you'll have to be fast, but I would NEVER move a finger to make you faster. This is important. The reckless have a place in the world, too. Saying "who cares" and throwing yourself forward without fear is a positive trait, right? There should be reward for this sometimes. But there must be danger, too.

The last section I'd like to talk about is this one:

5thsection.png

There is some precision to accessing the path to the left. If you can't or got attracted to the rewards (the checkpoint post, for example), you're screwed: here's one of the two sections where I applied that principle enunciated by Ken Balough (and by pretty much every fan out there): risk and reward. The risk is enormous: you have 5 seconds to climb a hole lot of platforms and reach the top, otherwie, you're dead. Challenge, people. There must be some life-threatening challenge (which the player is actually aware of) and I haven't seen this for a while.

Now let's see how it would stand when complete~!

Level Map

Guide

Notes:

  • Yellow dots: rings
  • Box with yellow dot: 10 rings
  • Box with red dot: Speed shoes
  • Box with gray dot: Shield
  • Box with blue dot: 1-Up
  • Box with pink dot: Special shield that negates gravitational effects
  • Teleporters with the same number... well... teleport between themselves
  • The Buzz Bomber-like badnik creates a gravitational field around its sting and tries to suck Sonic in
  • The... beetle-like badnik creates a gravitational field around its antenna and couples nearby items to it - it can be spikes, rings or the buzz-bomber like badnik
  • The orbinaut-like badnik's small and only spike ball orbits the badnik the way that small spike ball does around Sonic 3's final boss, first form. This last sentence mut be very confusing, no? Anyway, this badnik moves in a solenoid pattern

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I know I mentioned this before, but I really think we should have more temple levels in the series. Because Lost World in Sonic Adventure 1 I thought was brilliant and one of my favorite levels of all time. Now, I've been thinking; what if we crossed the temple cliche with another? For example, remember The Cauldron in Sonic and the Black Knight? The one with the volcanoes and where you get to surf on lava and shit like that? We're going to combine the two.

Okay, imagine that there is a temple that had been built long ago near what had at that point was thought to be a dormant volcano. The level starts off normally - you run through this hallway, defeat this enemy, run through that hallway, complete a little puzzle to advance ala Lost World, yadayadayada...

And then the volcano erupts.

Suddenly you've got molten rocks flying at you, threatening to burn the blur fur off Sonic. Empty water canals would be filled with white hot lava and to get through you're going to have to find a large, flat stone to stand on that wouldn't melt in the lava. Then you could have parts of pillars or such melt and pose the risk of crashing down on Sonic.

Just my two cents.

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I know I mentioned this before, but I really think we should have more temple levels in the series. Because Lost World in Sonic Adventure 1 I thought was brilliant and one of my favorite levels of all time. Now, I've been thinking; what if we crossed the temple cliche with another? For example, remember The Cauldron in Sonic and the Black Knight? The one with the volcanoes and where you get to surf on lava and shit like that? We're going to combine the two.

Okay, imagine that there is a temple that had been built long ago near what had at that point was thought to be a dormant volcano. The level starts off normally - you run through this hallway, defeat this enemy, run through that hallway, complete a little puzzle to advance ala Lost World, yadayadayada...

And then the volcano erupts.

Suddenly you've got molten rocks flying at you, threatening to burn the blur fur off Sonic. Empty water canals would be filled with white hot lava and to get through you're going to have to find a large, flat stone to stand on that wouldn't melt in the lava. Then you could have parts of pillars or such melt and pose the risk of crashing down on Sonic.

Just my two cents.

Hmm...Sounds kind of like Marble Zone in a way, but I don't recall that sort of combo being done in 3-D. Could be interesting having a "Toasty Temple" zone in a modern Sonic game.

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I would love if Sonic Team would start mashing up level themes; bringing new life to tired tropes. Maybe use the classic green hill theme, but have crazy weather alter the level layout. Eggman would be in the background shooting pelits into the sky while sonic runs through lopes and springs, but than rain starts to poor making the steep hills turn into water slides (similar to Tidal Tempest from CD). Sonic then lands on dry land to stay afloat and you bounce from platform to platform You then switch to 2D perspective as Eggman shoots another pelt into the sky which turns the rain into snow. The water starts to freeze and sonic loses control when running on the frozen lakes. Sonic would then boosts into a pile of snow and he starts to roll in the snowball down a step incline, gaining momentum and growing in size.

Basically, the generic hill trope transforms into a weather wonder land filled with water, ice, and lightning (haven't though of anything regarding that...).

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Ever since I played Super Monkey Ball 2, I've had this odd desire to see a Sonic level that has a shrunken down Sonic trying to escape Eggman's washing machine. It could be a pretty legit water level, and could feature a few quirky jabs at the Egghead by giving players a glimpse at his unmentionables.

Edited by That Bastard Cero
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A meat-themed stage. I also want to see Hero and Dark stories again. Maybe the dark characters should have twisted versions of hero levels, like in SA2 but even moreso.

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