Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Solkia]

I think this is a pretty common pet peevve, but where DOES Sonic put all those rings?

[Jango]

You just answered your own question there. People call it Sonic Adventure 3 as a short form for "Sonic 2006 is basically what Sonic Adventure 3 would have been. Granted we're not taking glitches and such into account here, but the general design and gameplay choices are more or less exactly what people want out of Sonic Adventure 3, just missing a Chao Garden I guess if you insist on that".

And yes I do consider Sonic Colours to be a direct sequel to Unleashed to the point that if they had called it "Sonic Unleashed 2: Colours" it wouldn't have come off as odd. Sonic Generations as well is basically Sonic Unleashed 3 in gameplay.

I hate this image and I'm not surprised I've never seen an infamous popular star on a single moment that it's been posted. For the record that comparison is just outright incorrect on most things.

The image claims Sonic 2006 can't be Sonic Adventure 3 because it didn't have these things that supposedly SA1 and SA2 did:

The physics system and engine - Sonic Adventure 2 had a different engine to Sonic Adventure 1.

The control quality - Sonic Adventure 2 had a different control quality to Sonic Adventure 1.

The level design - Sonic Adventure 2 had different styled level design to Sonic Adventure 1.

Most in-level or stage specific gimmicks - I'm not sure what the point of this is because why would they bring back the same stage specific gimmicks each game?

The musical instrumentation - Sonic Adventure 2 had different musical style to Sonic Adventure 1.

The art aesthetic - With the exception of slightly more anime humans, I think SA1 and SA2 both were trying to have their envioronments look as realistic as possible on the avaliable hardware.

The objective quality - When people claim Sonic 2006 would be Sonic Adventure 3, they are usually disregarding the end quality of the product and just referring to the design choices involved, glitches or not.

The critical reception - Most retrospective reviews of Sonic Adventure have been less than favourable, we'll see with Sonic Adventure 2. At the end of the day, though you cannot compare the fact that Sonic Adventure was released in a time when people were still pretty wowed by modern graphics and Sonic Adventure WAS a pretty fast game compared to other stuff.

The Sonic 4 stuff is also inane but won't argue about that here. Honestly the whole thing would have been a lot more forgivable if it just played itself straight without the self-righteous patronising "OF COURSE!" at the end. Stupid arguements.

Forget it, I'm not even reading all this. It isn't written "Sonic Adventure 3" on this game's cover. There is no Sonic Adventure 3 TM domain. Therefore there is no Sonic Adventure 3. I close my case.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jango

[SilentDoom]

Forget it, I'm not even reading all this. It isn't written "Sonic Adventure 3" on this game's cover. There is no Sonic Adventure 3 TM domain. Therefore there is no Sonic Adventure 3. I close my case.

I'm sorry, but this is just obnoxious. There isn't even all that much there.

[Semi-colon e]

Forget it, I'm not even reading all this. It isn't written "Sonic Adventure 3" on this game's cover. There is no Sonic Adventure 3 TM domain. Therefore there is no Sonic Adventure 3. I close my case.

If you're just gonna go "hurr not gonna read all this because I'm right and you're wrong" you're being ridiculously arrogant because you're not even willing to read what Jez has put, and he makes some good points. That's not how discussions work.

06 is a spiritual third Adventure game, it's like how Colours DS is Rush 3 in all but name (and iirc Sega have outright admitted this), or how Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow is a direct sequel to Aria of Sorrow but isn't called Aria of Sorrow 2. Colours Wii isn't Unleashed 2 in name but it is in gameplay mechanics. 06's set up was clearly emulating the adventure games.

Also Unleashed started development as Sonic Adventure 3, to throw that into the mix...

Edited July 4, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Johnny Boy]

I think this is a pretty common pet peevve, but where DOES Sonic put all those rings?

I always thought he absorbs them. Or maybe he goes to a secret ring bank nobody but him knows about and stores them there.

[JezMM]

Forget it, I'm not even reading all this. It isn't written "Sonic Adventure 3" on this game's cover. There is no Sonic Adventure 3 TM domain. Therefore there is no Sonic Adventure 3. I close my case.

I responded to your post in the first two paragraphs, the rest was responding to the image Mr. Snarf posted.

But no, really, great foruming there, gold star for effort. =\

I mean your pet peeve is totally valid, don't get me wrong, I was just trying to concisely put across the reasoning people call it that. Obviously no-one actually considers it to BE Sonic Adventure 3 when they call it that. They're just saying it's a game that, if it was named Sonic Adventure 3, not one person would have gone "well gee it's pretty odd that they named it SA3, it's nothing like the other two at all!".

Edited July 4, 2012 by JezMM

[...]

When people deny that they make Sonic recolours. They consistently insist it is their own original character, and then when they are proved that their "character(s)" is a recolour, they just add more things to their character in an attempt to hold up their defense. Such as more quills, tails, arms, etc.

[Jango]

If you're just gonna go "hurr not gonna read all this because I'm right and you're wrong" you're being ridiculously arrogant because you're not even willing to read what Jez has put, and he makes some good points. That's not how discussions work.

06 is a spiritual third Adventure game, it's like how Colours DS is Rush 3 in all but name (and iirc Sega have outright admitted this), or how Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow is a direct sequel to Aria of Sorrow but isn't called Aria of Sorrow 2. Colours Wii isn't Unleashed 2 in name but it is in gameplay mechanics. 06's set up was clearly emulating the adventure games.

Also Unleashed started development as Sonic Adventure 3, to throw that into the mix...

Not being arrogant my friend, I just don't want to read something I already have billions of times. It doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right, my thought is simple and I can't change (at least not yet): I can't accept a game to be called something that isn't truly labeled as it, even if all the reasons points to it. If SEGA really had named 06 "Sonic Adventure 3", then you got me (but I'll probaly rage about being a shit compared to the others 2, just like Sonic 4 compared to the others 3 ). I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I'm not being arrogant, I just answered the thread's question, since that's my pet peeve...

Edited July 4, 2012 by Jango

[Vertekins]

When people deny that they make Sonic recolours. They consistently insist it is their own original character, and then when they are proved that their "character(s)" is a recolour, they just add more things to their character in an attempt to hold up their defense. Such as more quills, tails, arms, etc.

Another peeve I might add is Porcupine fancharacters. From what I've gathered, Porcupines are vain attempts to make a character look like a Hedgehog without being one and the "Porcupine" label is slapped-on to make the character seem more original. 9 times out of 10, this is how Porcupines are used because very very few original alterations need to be made or are made. They overwhelmingly look identical to Hedgehog's but just with more quills.

You never see them as being more distinctive with Porcupine-esque noses which aren't like Hedgehog noses at all, resembling nostrils on a snout. Instead, all of the Porcupine FC's I've seen have extremely Sonic-like noses.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Verte

[Nepenthe]

I hate this image and I'm not surprised I've never seen an infamous popular star on a single moment that it's been posted. For the record that comparison is just outright incorrect on most things.

I've gotten a popular star for posting image as well as some applause in the status updates where it first debuted, and the only other person who I know has reposted it has gotten a popular star for the image too, so clearly it's resonated with people. Overall, most people miss the point I was personally trying to make (I think you kind of get it by also agreeing that the Sonic 4 stuff is also inane), but that's art for you. However, I would still like to elaborate on where I was coming from: I made the image in reaction to the melodramatic disownment of Sonic 4: Episode 2 by several individuals here during the game's news cycle and release, as well as the tendency of people to lash out at others who express interest in another Adventure game.

I understand that Sonic 4 doesn't resemble a classic game when it's compared bit by bit to its prequels on things like its physics systems or level design, and to add insult to injury features worse gameplay, hence the disownment. However, the same is true of Sonic 06 when compared to either SA1 or SA2, but that doesn't stop anyone here, even many of the people in rage mode over Sonic 4, from throwing the Sonic 06 box art in the face of anyone who even utters that they'd like another Adventure game in order to shut them up about it, and that's really all it's become now. It's not a term of endearment or a nickname anymore. It's a way to shut people up. Imagine if the opposite happened, that anyone here said "I'd like another classic game" and me- personally tired of hearing about the classics- threw out the covers of Episode 1 and 2 and told them to be happy with what they had; we all know I'd be ripped to shreds by most everyone who had the faintest idea about the classic games.

The image was intended to be as much mirror on the behavior of the community as it was meant to point out the inconsistencies in depth that occur when you compare S4 to the classics versus comparing Sonic 06 to the Adventures. Although since we're all here noting that even SA2 has major differences to SA1- something I'm well aware of- and Sonic 06 has differences to even both of those, I'm content to stop calling the "Adventure formula" an actual formula, which to me renders even less reason for the fucking "here's the Sonic 06 boxart" argument to have as much weight as it does around here.

I don't apologize for the Bison picture either. I feel it's both funny and deserved.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Jack / Joker]

-When people pair obscure characters for nonexistent reasons. Bean the DynamiteXSonic 4evs! Did you FEEL the homosexual tension between them in Fighters?!?

-Sonic Adventure being the "new" Sonic 06. That's an exaggeration I suppose but SA1 is still my favourite 3D game and it just gets so much crap, its disheartening!

-Sonic being the only playable character for 6 years. Also the only character who does anything except Eggman.

-When people say there are too many characters. The only true recurring characters are Sonic, Robotnik, Tails and to a lesser extent (currently) Knuckles and Amy. Even Shadow and Rouge is stretching it now!

[Tobbii]

When people go; "Why did Sonic game B get a better score than Sonic game A? Sonic game A is clearly better!" or something like that.

Why did Sonic game B get a better score?

Difference of opinion.

Not even that, it can be even simpler. Different reviewers for example, or just that they didn't compare the two while thinking of the score.

[1991boy]

Here's another peeve of mine, Do you know Porcipine man? AKA Ravekidd's abomination I just hate it when people call modern sonic "porcipine man" also he does not look anything like that. I mean seriously only immature retro fans would support that crap.

[-blank-]

Speaking of fan characters, I can't help but shake my head whenever someone makes a hedgehog, fox, or echidna character and someone else says 'You shouldn't use those species. Change 'em.' And 99% of the time, their reason will be 'because they are overused'.

Okay, I can understand how echidnas can be an issue, seeing as Knuckles is apparently the only one, unless you want to go by Chronicles' storyline or the Archie comics, but hedgehogs and foxes? Look, they may be overused, but that does not mean they still can't be used to make good, original characters. I've seen it done before. =/

[Nepenthe]

Speaking as someone with an active hedgehog character, I'm not invested in the "too many of hedgehogs/foxes/echidnas" arguments either because it doesn't matter. Sega has actually set a nice little precedent of creating characters whose species have little to no direct influence on the rest of their identity, so they could literally be anything else and you wouldn't miss a step. I think the only exceptions are Sonic, Metal, Shadow, and perhaps Espio, but even then the chameleon angle was slightly undermined by Amy's invisibility gimmick in Sonic 06 anyway.

The only time it becomes a major issue is if we're judging characters solely in a design context and nothing else. Not only do I find that this focus misses one major half of character creation (after all, I've created a 2224-word bio for my hedgehog that I wouldn't want dismissed because the linked picture offends you), but the entire artistic aspect of fan character creation in this community is a mess regardless of hedgehog overpopulation; rather, it's people who aren't artists justifying their apathy through their lack of talent and patience, thus they don't bother trying to utilize and better their character design skills. It's laziness. Pat yourself on the back for using a wolf all you want, but if that wolf still looks like Tails, then you've not done anything worth bragging about.

[JezMM]

I've gotten a popular star for posting image as well as some applause in the status updates where it first debuted, and the only other person who I know has reposted it has gotten a popular star for the image too, so clearly it's resonated with people. Overall, most people miss the point I was personally trying to make (I think you kind of get it by also agreeing that the Sonic 4 stuff is also inane), but that's art for you. However, I would still like to elaborate on where I was coming from...

Ohhhhhhkay. I didn't get the point originally (wonder why all the times I've seen it I never saw the praise though, I dunno, must have missed the original topic), but I also apologise for judging it out of context here too. I totally get where you were going with the image now.

[Your Vest Friend]

Power type characters. More specifically, their underuse in the Sonic games.

I know that the whole Speed/Flight/Power thing is a gimmick that a lot of fans prefer not to use, but I think that their classification like this is intrinsic to the peeve itself.

More often than not, power types seem like the underappreciated class of the Sonic series. If you're one of these, you are almost bound to run into being made to be the dumbest member and/or the distinct 'third wheel' of the trio you're inevitably grouped with. Because I feel like elaborating, I'll go through each of them one by one and illustrate, from the one I feel most egregious to least.

Team Rose; This is kind of a duh, to be honest. From the start, Big never had any real connection to Amy despite being a star character in the same game where her role was upped, and his reasons for going with her and Cream in Heroes is motivated by his own goal, despite making friends with them later on. Since then, he's never interacted with them again*, Amy and Cream have clearly given the impression of being a duo and it's really no wonder that he's being retired (despite me liking his character).

Team Babylon; Poor Storm. His main trait is that he's supposed to be the Rogues' dumb muscle, and he always seems to be the last one of them people recount whether he likes it or not (So bad, that when Sonic Channel did wallpapers with the Rogues, he had to settle for being a tagalong on Wave's wallpaper, shoved into the background). The reason he's not higher than Big is because he is slightly more integrated into the workings of the Rogues as a group, with his worship of Jet and animosity with Wave because of the fact she's less respectful (although I don't recall if they bickered in Free Riders, and I've heard Wave was more defensive of Jet there, too!).

Team Fucked-Up Backstory; I only note this because there IS no power-type here, they're a duo without even going to the extent of getting a third member who can step in when needed. One could argue that Marine would fill this role, but we haven't exactly see her do anything validating the role as a Power type. We haven't seen her much, period.

Team Dark; Omega is a strange one to classify, I swear. Let's get this straight; he's not dumb. Far, far, far from it. When I said about making a Power character to fulfil the spare role in the team above though, this is what I was referring to, he's probably merely in existence just to round out the numbers (and because Gamma was dead by Adventure's end, thus he wasn't really usable in-story). He has the problem of Shadow and Rouge being established as a secure team in SA2 as well. He's certainly far from the worst in adapting to the team (maybe not so much Rouge, but certainly with fellow ex-weapon Shadow in Shadow, '06 and...*), but he's simultaneously pretty disposable, so it's really a coin toss on whether he's in or not, and whether he's connected to the team (Free Riders could be argued as being the most blatant example of this, but the replacement at least had a good reason for happening).

Team Sonic; While Knuckles clearly plays second fiddle to the Unbreakable Bond, he's a lot less restricted to the Power role than the characters listed above. And while his characterisation can fluctuate a lot (and being 'dumb' is a trait at times), he still has a few smart traits that can be used (being Sonic's friendly rival, that knowledge of ancient languages). However, he's probably at his best when he's NOT being the Power type in the Terrible Trio, which is part of the Power problem in the first place.

Team Chaotix; Fuck them they do not adhere. Making a big rant on why they don't treat their power type with love would be like writing an essay on why Shadow should have more backstory.

There's a couple of things to note here when considering these.

The asterisks; I'm sure some of you saw the descriptions of the power types and immediately shouted, at certain points, "What about Sonic Chronicles?!" Sonic Chronicles is seen as misfit in some people's eyes for various reasons, and I'd say that the usage of Power types would be one of them. Firstly, while Big was more irrelevant and more for the comedy, Omega was given much more love by BioWare and got more of a relationship (SHUT UP) with Shadow than Rouge (assuming you picked him up since he's optional), and Knuckles got a lot of the focus of the story, I'd say more than even in Adventure, of all games, enough to probably supplant Tails and Sonic's main co-star there. Secondly, BioWare seemed a lot more liberal with what they considered 'Power', with not only the conventionals getting in (although Big was support), but with Amy and Shadow fully acting as Power themselves. I know a lot of fans do like to note the qualities that can attribute them to being Power as well as Speed, but Sonic Team themselves seem a little...nervous about putting the tag on them.

[Gabz Girl]

I don't mind fancharacters, even those that are hedgehogs or foxes, as long as they look and act original and don't have crappy recolour pictures or lame videos. Bludshot the hedgehog is a great example of the worst possible fancharacter in Sonic fandom. Gary Stu, emo, wants revenge, a tragic backstory and even has an alter ego who is EEEEVIL. Just look him up on YouTube.

Another peeve I might add is Porcupine fancharacters. From what I've gathered, Porcupines are vain attempts to make a character look like a Hedgehog without being one and the "Porcupine" label is slapped-on to make the character seem more original. 9 times out of 10, this is how Porcupines are used because very very few original alterations need to be made or are made. They overwhelmingly look identical to Hedgehog's but just with more quills.

You never see them as being more distinctive with Porcupine-esque noses which aren't like Hedgehog noses at all, resembling nostrils on a snout. Instead, all of the Porcupine FC's I've seen have extremely Sonic-like noses.

Thissss so much! Porcupines are rodents and have nothing to do with hedgehogs! At least give your character a buck tooth or something to show its a different species entirely! ><

Edited July 5, 2012 by Gabz Girl

[Kuzu]

Now that you think about it, Knuckles does seem at his best when he's working independent of Sonic & Tails. I never noticed that.

[Crazizzle]

My biggest entertainment peeve, not just games, is when people are unwilling to accept their position isn't the majority. It's great to have a minority opinion, but don't constantly claim that EVERYONE else is stupid. It's particuarly bad when dealing with beloved classics. Some idiot comes along and all of a sudden thinks his taste is superior to generations of gamers. That extends across all fanbases, though. Mostly young gamers that lack perspective and older gamers that are cynical.

In relation to Sonic specifically, I get annoyed by the canard that Sonic titles have been critically bashed since the Genesis era. It is true that lots of people dislike games in the Adventure era and beyond, but by any objective standard...only three major Sonic titles since Adventure were panned universally(Shadow, '06 and Black Knight),

Well recieved at the time of release: Adventure, Adventure 2, Advance 1-3, Rush and Adventure, Colors, Generations

Mixed reviews: Secret Rings, Unleashed, Heroes(mostly positive reviews, but polarizing among the fans), Sonic 4

Negative: '06 , Black Knight, Shadow

The series had two games fail critically in a ROW, and Unleashed and Secret Rings were middling. That's a few bad years. Nothing worse than other franchises have dealt with. Other than that...the series has done fine. The whole "Downfall of Sonic" was a media creation.

[Rally the Cheetah]

The plural for chao is chao not chaos. Yes I admit they did call a group of chao in one of the games chaos but it was a mistake.

Sonic's last name is not X. I don't care that he once called himself Sonic X on Fox kids channel, it was a mistake.

[Sega DogTagz]

I don't remember posting in this topic before, so I'm gonna take a stab at it.

My biggest peeve, with this franchise, is when someone talks about Sonic's 06 character model and moan about how Sonic was six feet tall in that game.

I loathe that line of thought. I honestly die a little inside when ever I see it. Then I loose about ten minutes of my life digging through my files looking for old photos of Sonic standing next to Princess Elise just so I can write up a rebuttal in an futile attempt to eliminate anyone and everyone from ever making a similar error.

I swear, some people have no appreciation for the differences between proportions and height. I've seen fans and journalists make this mistake and it kills me every time.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Phos]

Speaking of the Tornado, It'd be a stretch calling these peeves, more like nitpicks but...

- The first Tornado does not belong to and was not created by Tails. It belongs to Sonic and it's origins are unknown.

- It's a little silly how they flipped the Tornado's sprite in Sonic 3/Knuckles yet didn't flip the wording "SONIC" on it as well.

And I've said this a few times before but what peeves me about Classic Sonic in Generations is that his muteness was nothing more than pandering to the fanbase, those who hold warped interpretations and consider Classic's muteness to have always been an innate character trait rather than a result of technological limitations regarding cartridge memory.

Also on this tangent, it really annoys me when people say that Sonic worsened when he got a voice and could "suddenly" talk. Newsflash; He spoke in the classic era and speech has sensically always been something Sonic has had.

Also, I really, really despise 95% of Sonadow art/fics out there because so many of them portray Sonic as an uke and betray so many of his character traits as a headstrong and robust person. I also hate how these art and fics portray Shadow as some kind of sensual and dominant lover. Frankly, these two guys are more likely to make war instead of love.

To your typical anime fan, two characters fighting or arguing will inevitably lead to their tongues down each other's throats.

[Kuzu]

To your typical anime fan, two characters fighting or arguing will inevitably lead to their tongues down each other's throats.

More like every series ever.

[Milo]

I'm pretty sure thanks to retro fanboys and Generations this will be looked down upon as a whiny nitpick rather than a pet peeve, but it still bothers me that they didn't even at least create new sprites or put in older sprites of the classic designs in either epsides of Sonic 4 as an option. I still refuse to believe that Sonic "aged" from his "younger" classic appearence to his older "modern" appearence in a short time. You've got the badniks and the visuals looking similar to the Genesis games, why not the characters themselves? Heck, I wouldn't had minded if classic Sonic's big appearence was in Sonic 4, rather than Sonic Generations. (It's not like they did much with classic Sonic there anyway. "Classic" physics still weren't classic (in either versions, regardless they were better or worse than Sonic 4), and the overall use of the classic incarnations of the characters was handled poorly overall). Would it have saved the game from what it eventually became? No, but it still would have been nice if they included as an option for the older fans and maintained some more consistency with the previous games.

Speaking of which, it also annoys me that changed the overall graphical artstyle in Sonic 4: Episode II. Honestly, everytime I saw someone complain about Episode I's graphics, they usually refer to the plastic-esque visuals and poorly proportioned/placed sprites of level design and background sprites seen in Splash Hill Zone. The visuals of the later zones looked a lot better in comparison. Not to mention that although it may have been because the zones were rehashes of the previous games, Episode I still maintained some consistency of the aesthetics and artstyle of the classic games. I didn't see anything resembling the classic aesthetics in Episode II, aside from Sky Fortress (and even then it was more similar to Heroes's than the classics). It just seemed like your average pretty graphics in your average downloadable game.