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Sonic-related pet peeves?

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This is the stupidest fucking thing.

It's not like the cover says "Sonic '06" either, y'know.

people only call it Sonic 06 or Sonic Next Gen so it doesn't get mistaken for the original Sonic The Hedgehog

although people just call it Sonic 1, but you get the idea.

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So I assume people can actually call Colors an Unleashed 2?

Well it doesn't have the "Unleashed" mode, but yes. But there's one important difference, people aren't whining about "I WANT SONIC UNLEASHED 2, THAT WILL SAVE THE FRANCHISE!!!!1" like it's become with SA3 at times.

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People who claim Sonic 06 is Sonic Adventure 3. IT ISN'T SPELLED S-O-N-I-C-A-D-V-E-N-T-U-R-E-3 ON THE GAME'S COVER, TITTLE SCREEN, ETC, ETC.

Sonic 06 does feels like an Adventure game, but is a downside for the serie in all aspects.

Sonic 4 is the same deal, although called "the Hedgehog 4", it hardly can be claimed as one of the serie.

This is funny

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When people go; "Why did Sonic game B get a better score than Sonic game A? Sonic game A is clearly better!" or something like that.

Why did Sonic game B get a better score?

Difference of opinion.

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So I assume people can actually call Colors an Unleashed 2? Heroes is like an Knuckles Chaotix 2, right? Seriously, people need to stop calling games things they aren't. Sonic 06 does feels like an Adventure game, but is a downside for the serie in all aspects.

You just answered your own question there. People call it Sonic Adventure 3 as a short form for "Sonic 2006 is basically what Sonic Adventure 3 would have been. Granted we're not taking glitches and such into account here, but the general design and gameplay choices are more or less exactly what people want out of Sonic Adventure 3, just missing a Chao Garden I guess if you insist on that".

And yes I do consider Sonic Colours to be a direct sequel to Unleashed to the point that if they had called it "Sonic Unleashed 2: Colours" it wouldn't have come off as odd. Sonic Generations as well is basically Sonic Unleashed 3 in gameplay.

I remember seeing this on SSMB (not sure which thread) that fits this mini-discussion perfectly!

game_comparison.png

I hate this image and I'm not surprised I've never seen an infamous popular star on a single moment that it's been posted. For the record that comparison is just outright incorrect on most things.

The image claims Sonic 2006 can't be Sonic Adventure 3 because it didn't have these things that supposedly SA1 and SA2 did:

The physics system and engine - Sonic Adventure 2 had a different engine to Sonic Adventure 1.

The control quality - Sonic Adventure 2 had a different control quality to Sonic Adventure 1.

The level design - Sonic Adventure 2 had different styled level design to Sonic Adventure 1.

Most in-level or stage specific gimmicks - I'm not sure what the point of this is because why would they bring back the same stage specific gimmicks each game?

The musical instrumentation - Sonic Adventure 2 had different musical style to Sonic Adventure 1.

The art aesthetic - With the exception of slightly more anime humans, I think SA1 and SA2 both were trying to have their envioronments look as realistic as possible on the avaliable hardware.

The objective quality - When people claim Sonic 2006 would be Sonic Adventure 3, they are usually disregarding the end quality of the product and just referring to the design choices involved, glitches or not.

The critical reception - Most retrospective reviews of Sonic Adventure have been less than favourable, we'll see with Sonic Adventure 2. At the end of the day, though you cannot compare the fact that Sonic Adventure was released in a time when people were still pretty wowed by modern graphics and Sonic Adventure WAS a pretty fast game compared to other stuff.

The Sonic 4 stuff is also inane but won't argue about that here. Honestly the whole thing would have been a lot more forgivable if it just played itself straight without the self-righteous patronising "OF COURSE!" at the end. Stupid arguements.

Edited by JezMM

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I really hate how people are all like HURR COLOURS AND GENERATIONS ARE UNLEASHED 2 AND 3 but yet when someone says 06 is like a third Adventure game these same people flip their shit just because it's bad. Just because it's a sequel to a good game doesn't mean it has to be a good game itself, and it's like they don't want it to tarnish their "perfect adventure games". It's a blatant double standard that pisses me off. This shit exists whether you like it or not, and it's not like the quality of one thing should retroactively make the other thing terrible or bad in most cases. It's not like Sonic 4 is suddenly ruining the Classic games now is it? It's just a poor game that happens to be called Sonic 4.

It's just a name anyway, so it doesn't matter. Sometimes things are sequels or successors despite not being numbered and the fact they aren't numbered or have different aspects to them doesn't make them suddenly totally separate.

It's more the double standard that annoys me really I suppose.

Edited by Semi-colon e

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You just answered your own question there. People call it Sonic Adventure 3 as a short form for "Sonic 2006 is basically what Sonic Adventure 3 would have been. Granted we're not taking glitches and such into account here, but the general design and gameplay choices are more or less exactly what people want out of Sonic Adventure 3, just missing a Chao Garden I guess if you insist on that".

And yes I do consider Sonic Colours to be a direct sequel to Unleashed to the point that if they had called it "Sonic Unleashed 2: Colours" it wouldn't have come off as odd. Sonic Generations as well is basically Sonic Unleashed 3 in gameplay.

I hate this image and I'm not surprised I've never seen an infamous popular star on a single moment that it's been posted. For the record that comparison is just outright incorrect on most things.

The image claims Sonic 2006 can't be Sonic Adventure 3 because it didn't have these things that supposedly SA1 and SA2 did:

The physics system and engine - Sonic Adventure 2 had a different engine to Sonic Adventure 1.

The control quality - Sonic Adventure 2 had a different control quality to Sonic Adventure 1.

The level design - Sonic Adventure 2 had different styled level design to Sonic Adventure 1.

Most in-level or stage specific gimmicks - I'm not sure what the point of this is because why would they bring back the same stage specific gimmicks each game?

The musical instrumentation - Sonic Adventure 2 had different musical style to Sonic Adventure 1.

The art aesthetic - With the exception of slightly more anime humans, I think SA1 and SA2 both were trying to have their envioronments look as realistic as possible on the avaliable hardware.

The objective quality - When people claim Sonic 2006 would be Sonic Adventure 3, they are usually disregarding the end quality of the product and just referring to the design choices involved, glitches or not.

The critical reception - Most retrospective reviews of Sonic Adventure have been less than favourable, we'll see with Sonic Adventure 2. At the end of the day, though you cannot compare the fact that Sonic Adventure was released in a time when people were still pretty wowed by modern graphics and Sonic Adventure WAS a pretty fast game compared to other stuff.

The Sonic 4 stuff is also inane but won't argue about that here. Honestly the whole thing would have been a lot more forgivable if it just played itself straight without the self-righteous patronising "OF COURSE!" at the end. Stupid arguements.

Forget it, I'm not even reading all this. It isn't written "Sonic Adventure 3" on this game's cover. There is no Sonic Adventure 3 TM domain. Therefore there is no Sonic Adventure 3. I close my case.

Edited by Jango

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Forget it, I'm not even reading all this. It isn't written "Sonic Adventure 3" on this game's cover. There is no Sonic Adventure 3 TM domain. Therefore there is no Sonic Adventure 3. I close my case.

If you're just gonna go "hurr not gonna read all this because I'm right and you're wrong" you're being ridiculously arrogant because you're not even willing to read what Jez has put, and he makes some good points. That's not how discussions work.

06 is a spiritual third Adventure game, it's like how Colours DS is Rush 3 in all but name (and iirc Sega have outright admitted this), or how Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow is a direct sequel to Aria of Sorrow but isn't called Aria of Sorrow 2. Colours Wii isn't Unleashed 2 in name but it is in gameplay mechanics. 06's set up was clearly emulating the adventure games.

Also Unleashed started development as Sonic Adventure 3, to throw that into the mix...

Edited by Semi-colon e

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I think this is a pretty common pet peevve, but where DOES Sonic put all those rings?

I always thought he absorbs them. Or maybe he goes to a secret ring bank nobody but him knows about and stores them there.

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Forget it, I'm not even reading all this. It isn't written "Sonic Adventure 3" on this game's cover. There is no Sonic Adventure 3 TM domain. Therefore there is no Sonic Adventure 3. I close my case.

I responded to your post in the first two paragraphs, the rest was responding to the image Mr. Snarf posted.

But no, really, great foruming there, gold star for effort. =\

I mean your pet peeve is totally valid, don't get me wrong, I was just trying to concisely put across the reasoning people call it that. Obviously no-one actually considers it to BE Sonic Adventure 3 when they call it that. They're just saying it's a game that, if it was named Sonic Adventure 3, not one person would have gone "well gee it's pretty odd that they named it SA3, it's nothing like the other two at all!".

Edited by JezMM

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When people deny that they make Sonic recolours. They consistently insist it is their own original character, and then when they are proved that their "character(s)" is a recolour, they just add more things to their character in an attempt to hold up their defense. Such as more quills, tails, arms, etc.

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If you're just gonna go "hurr not gonna read all this because I'm right and you're wrong" you're being ridiculously arrogant because you're not even willing to read what Jez has put, and he makes some good points. That's not how discussions work.

06 is a spiritual third Adventure game, it's like how Colours DS is Rush 3 in all but name (and iirc Sega have outright admitted this), or how Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow is a direct sequel to Aria of Sorrow but isn't called Aria of Sorrow 2. Colours Wii isn't Unleashed 2 in name but it is in gameplay mechanics. 06's set up was clearly emulating the adventure games.

Also Unleashed started development as Sonic Adventure 3, to throw that into the mix...

Not being arrogant my friend, I just don't want to read something I already have billions of times. It doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right, my thought is simple and I can't change (at least not yet): I can't accept a game to be called something that isn't truly labeled as it, even if all the reasons points to it. If SEGA really had named 06 "Sonic Adventure 3", then you got me (but I'll probaly rage about being a shit compared to the others 2, just like Sonic 4 compared to the others 3 tongue.png). I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I'm not being arrogant, I just answered the thread's question, since that's my pet peeve...

Edited by Jango

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When people deny that they make Sonic recolours. They consistently insist it is their own original character, and then when they are proved that their "character(s)" is a recolour, they just add more things to their character in an attempt to hold up their defense. Such as more quills, tails, arms, etc.

Another peeve I might add is Porcupine fancharacters. From what I've gathered, Porcupines are vain attempts to make a character look like a Hedgehog without being one and the "Porcupine" label is slapped-on to make the character seem more original. 9 times out of 10, this is how Porcupines are used because very very few original alterations need to be made or are made. They overwhelmingly look identical to Hedgehog's but just with more quills.

You never see them as being more distinctive with Porcupine-esque noses which aren't like Hedgehog noses at all, resembling nostrils on a snout. Instead, all of the Porcupine FC's I've seen have extremely Sonic-like noses.

Edited by Verte

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I hate this image and I'm not surprised I've never seen an infamous popular star on a single moment that it's been posted. For the record that comparison is just outright incorrect on most things.

I've gotten a popular star for posting image as well as some applause in the status updates where it first debuted, and the only other person who I know has reposted it has gotten a popular star for the image too, so clearly it's resonated with people. Overall, most people miss the point I was personally trying to make (I think you kind of get it by also agreeing that the Sonic 4 stuff is also inane), but that's art for you. However, I would still like to elaborate on where I was coming from: I made the image in reaction to the melodramatic disownment of Sonic 4: Episode 2 by several individuals here during the game's news cycle and release, as well as the tendency of people to lash out at others who express interest in another Adventure game.

I understand that Sonic 4 doesn't resemble a classic game when it's compared bit by bit to its prequels on things like its physics systems or level design, and to add insult to injury features worse gameplay, hence the disownment. However, the same is true of Sonic 06 when compared to either SA1 or SA2, but that doesn't stop anyone here, even many of the people in rage mode over Sonic 4, from throwing the Sonic 06 box art in the face of anyone who even utters that they'd like another Adventure game in order to shut them up about it, and that's really all it's become now. It's not a term of endearment or a nickname anymore. It's a way to shut people up. Imagine if the opposite happened, that anyone here said "I'd like another classic game" and me- personally tired of hearing about the classics- threw out the covers of Episode 1 and 2 and told them to be happy with what they had; we all know I'd be ripped to shreds by most everyone who had the faintest idea about the classic games.

The image was intended to be as much mirror on the behavior of the community as it was meant to point out the inconsistencies in depth that occur when you compare S4 to the classics versus comparing Sonic 06 to the Adventures. Although since we're all here noting that even SA2 has major differences to SA1- something I'm well aware of- and Sonic 06 has differences to even both of those, I'm content to stop calling the "Adventure formula" an actual formula, which to me renders even less reason for the fucking "here's the Sonic 06 boxart" argument to have as much weight as it does around here.

I don't apologize for the Bison picture either. I feel it's both funny and deserved.

Edited by Nepenthe

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-When people pair obscure characters for nonexistent reasons. Bean the DynamiteXSonic 4evs! Did you FEEL the homosexual tension between them in Fighters?!?

-Sonic Adventure being the "new" Sonic 06. That's an exaggeration I suppose but SA1 is still my favourite 3D game and it just gets so much crap, its disheartening!

-Sonic being the only playable character for 6 years. Also the only character who does anything except Eggman.

-When people say there are too many characters. The only true recurring characters are Sonic, Robotnik, Tails and to a lesser extent (currently) Knuckles and Amy. Even Shadow and Rouge is stretching it now!

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When people go; "Why did Sonic game B get a better score than Sonic game A? Sonic game A is clearly better!" or something like that.

Why did Sonic game B get a better score?

Difference of opinion.

Not even that, it can be even simpler. Different reviewers for example, or just that they didn't compare the two while thinking of the score.

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Here's another peeve of mine, Do you know Porcipine man? AKA Ravekidd's abomination I just hate it when people call modern sonic "porcipine man" also he does not look anything like that. I mean seriously only immature retro fans would support that crap.

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Speaking of fan characters, I can't help but shake my head whenever someone makes a hedgehog, fox, or echidna character and someone else says 'You shouldn't use those species. Change 'em.' And 99% of the time, their reason will be 'because they are overused'.

Okay, I can understand how echidnas can be an issue, seeing as Knuckles is apparently the only one, unless you want to go by Chronicles' storyline or the Archie comics, but hedgehogs and foxes? Look, they may be overused, but that does not mean they still can't be used to make good, original characters. I've seen it done before. =/

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Speaking as someone with an active hedgehog character, I'm not invested in the "too many of hedgehogs/foxes/echidnas" arguments either because it doesn't matter. Sega has actually set a nice little precedent of creating characters whose species have little to no direct influence on the rest of their identity, so they could literally be anything else and you wouldn't miss a step. I think the only exceptions are Sonic, Metal, Shadow, and perhaps Espio, but even then the chameleon angle was slightly undermined by Amy's invisibility gimmick in Sonic 06 anyway.

The only time it becomes a major issue is if we're judging characters solely in a design context and nothing else. Not only do I find that this focus misses one major half of character creation (after all, I've created a 2224-word bio for my hedgehog that I wouldn't want dismissed because the linked picture offends you), but the entire artistic aspect of fan character creation in this community is a mess regardless of hedgehog overpopulation; rather, it's people who aren't artists justifying their apathy through their lack of talent and patience, thus they don't bother trying to utilize and better their character design skills. It's laziness. Pat yourself on the back for using a wolf all you want, but if that wolf still looks like Tails, then you've not done anything worth bragging about.

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I've gotten a popular star for posting image as well as some applause in the status updates where it first debuted, and the only other person who I know has reposted it has gotten a popular star for the image too, so clearly it's resonated with people. Overall, most people miss the point I was personally trying to make (I think you kind of get it by also agreeing that the Sonic 4 stuff is also inane), but that's art for you. However, I would still like to elaborate on where I was coming from...

Ohhhhhhkay. I didn't get the point originally (wonder why all the times I've seen it I never saw the praise though, I dunno, must have missed the original topic), but I also apologise for judging it out of context here too. I totally get where you were going with the image now.

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Power type characters. More specifically, their underuse in the Sonic games.

I know that the whole Speed/Flight/Power thing is a gimmick that a lot of fans prefer not to use, but I think that their classification like this is intrinsic to the peeve itself.

More often than not, power types seem like the underappreciated class of the Sonic series. If you're one of these, you are almost bound to run into being made to be the dumbest member and/or the distinct 'third wheel' of the trio you're inevitably grouped with. Because I feel like elaborating, I'll go through each of them one by one and illustrate, from the one I feel most egregious to least.

Team Rose; This is kind of a duh, to be honest. From the start, Big never had any real connection to Amy despite being a star character in the same game where her role was upped, and his reasons for going with her and Cream in Heroes is motivated by his own goal, despite making friends with them later on. Since then, he's never interacted with them again*, Amy and Cream have clearly given the impression of being a duo and it's really no wonder that he's being retired (despite me liking his character).

Team Babylon; Poor Storm. His main trait is that he's supposed to be the Rogues' dumb muscle, and he always seems to be the last one of them people recount whether he likes it or not (So bad, that when Sonic Channel did wallpapers with the Rogues, he had to settle for being a tagalong on Wave's wallpaper, shoved into the background). The reason he's not higher than Big is because he is slightly more integrated into the workings of the Rogues as a group, with his worship of Jet and animosity with Wave because of the fact she's less respectful (although I don't recall if they bickered in Free Riders, and I've heard Wave was more defensive of Jet there, too!).

Team Fucked-Up Backstory; I only note this because there IS no power-type here, they're a duo without even going to the extent of getting a third member who can step in when needed. One could argue that Marine would fill this role, but we haven't exactly see her do anything validating the role as a Power type. We haven't seen her much, period.

Team Dark; Omega is a strange one to classify, I swear. Let's get this straight; he's not dumb. Far, far, far from it. When I said about making a Power character to fulfil the spare role in the team above though, this is what I was referring to, he's probably merely in existence just to round out the numbers (and because Gamma was dead by Adventure's end, thus he wasn't really usable in-story). He has the problem of Shadow and Rouge being established as a secure team in SA2 as well. He's certainly far from the worst in adapting to the team (maybe not so much Rouge, but certainly with fellow ex-weapon Shadow in Shadow, '06 and...*), but he's simultaneously pretty disposable, so it's really a coin toss on whether he's in or not, and whether he's connected to the team (Free Riders could be argued as being the most blatant example of this, but the replacement at least had a good reason for happening).

Team Sonic; While Knuckles clearly plays second fiddle to the Unbreakable Bond, he's a lot less restricted to the Power role than the characters listed above. And while his characterisation can fluctuate a lot (and being 'dumb' is a trait at times), he still has a few smart traits that can be used (being Sonic's friendly rival, that knowledge of ancient languages). However, he's probably at his best when he's NOT being the Power type in the Terrible Trio, which is part of the Power problem in the first place.

Team Chaotix; Fuck them they do not adhere. Making a big rant on why they don't treat their power type with love would be like writing an essay on why Shadow should have more backstory.

There's a couple of things to note here when considering these.

The asterisks; I'm sure some of you saw the descriptions of the power types and immediately shouted, at certain points, "What about Sonic Chronicles?!" Sonic Chronicles is seen as misfit in some people's eyes for various reasons, and I'd say that the usage of Power types would be one of them. Firstly, while Big was more irrelevant and more for the comedy, Omega was given much more love by BioWare and got more of a relationship (SHUT UP) with Shadow than Rouge (assuming you picked him up since he's optional), and Knuckles got a lot of the focus of the story, I'd say more than even in Adventure, of all games, enough to probably supplant Tails and Sonic's main co-star there. Secondly, BioWare seemed a lot more liberal with what they considered 'Power', with not only the conventionals getting in (although Big was support), but with Amy and Shadow fully acting as Power themselves. I know a lot of fans do like to note the qualities that can attribute them to being Power as well as Speed, but Sonic Team themselves seem a little...nervous about putting the tag on them.

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