Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Blue Blood]

Not that Goal Rings and 10-Ring Rings particularly annoy me or anything, but I definitely prefer Signposts/Egg Capsules and Monitors/Item Capsules. 

[Komodin]

Frankly, I'm more bothered by the lack of powerups in the (Modern!)Sonic gameplay in Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations. I mean, at least Sonic Colors had the Wisps going for it...

[Tara]

That Black Doom was directly involved with the creation of Shadow the Hedgehog, and how that game destroyed Gerald's character.

 

Seriously, when thinking of a reason as to why Gerald created Shadow (Wasn't it mentioned in the japanese manual that maria has a disease?) the best they could come up was aliens?

Yes, Maria suffered from "Neuro-Immuno Deficiency Syndrome" otherwise known as "NIDS" but best known as "definitely not a euphemism for AIDS."

 

Not that Goal Rings and 10-Ring Rings particularly annoy me or anything, but I definitely prefer Signposts/Egg Capsules and Monitors/Item Capsules. 

I prefer the capsules myself.  I mean, the goal ring idea doesn't bother me, but having a capsule or something makes me feel a bit more like I'm going fast to get somewhere for a reason as opposed to just going from point A to point B.  With that said, Goal Rings and sign posts are good when your mission actually is to escape from some place or get from one point to the other, like in Green Forest, White Jungle, or Metal Harbor.

 

Frankly, I'm more bothered by the lack of powerups in the (Modern!)Sonic gameplay in Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations. I mean, at least Sonic Colors had the Wisps going for it...

This.  Very much this.  I'd like to see the fire and bubble shields from S3+K implemented three dimensionally as well as some new power ups added.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Akito

[Tani Coyote]

That Black Doom was directly involved with the creation of Shadow the Hedgehog, and how that game destroyed Gerald's character.

 

Seriously, when thinking of a reason as to why Gerald created Shadow (Wasn't it mentioned in the japanese manual that maria has a disease?) the best they could come up was aliens?

 

Yeah, Shadow's backstory was good enough. Gerald wanted to use his brain to cure his daughter. However, he needed funding. Like most scientists, he had to sell out to the government. They wanted a weapon, he wanted a cure. He created Shadow for both.

 

Aliens are... really not necessary. Given the brilliance of Eggman's family, could he seriously not engineer a life form from chaos energy alone? There could be some excuse that all DNA found on Earth wasn't very conductive to said energy, but that's nonsense since Sonic's certainly not an alien and he has no problem tapping into that power.

[Blue Blood]

Frankly, I'm more bothered by the lack of powerups in the (Modern!)Sonic gameplay in Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations. I mean, at least Sonic Colors had the Wisps going for it...

 

Do the Wisps really count? They were a gameplay gimmick. A nice one, mind, but they weren't really power-ups. The only reason that games from Unleashed onwards have no traditional power-ups is cause there's no room for them, which is arguable a problem in itself.

 

But I really don't know why there weren't any shield monitors for Classic Sonic outside of missions in Generations.

[Diogenes]

Do the Wisps really count? They were a gameplay gimmick. A nice one, mind, but they weren't really power-ups. 

How weren't they powerups? They were collectible items that temporarily granted you new abilities. That the game explicitly took advantage of them doesn't mean they aren't powerups.

[Chaos Warp]

When I hear that people are losing interest in Sonic because they are playing it to safe and it's boring them.

 

Now, I don't mean to call out anyone's opinion here or instigate, as I know some of you people have this opinion (I've seen this other places too, not just here). But it makes me feel bad for SEGA/Sonic Team. The reason they are playing it so safe is that when they tried to do changes and take risks, the changes were (and sometimes the whole game) received badly (SA1/2's alternate gameplay, Shadow The Hedgehog, 06, Unleashed's Werehog) and now they are in "Crisis Recovery" mode, to try to recover Sonic's reputation with the fans, critics, and the general public. Granted, obviously they were misguided when they tried to take some (read: some, not all) of those risks back in the day, and they may also be misguided now by playing it uber-safe instead of finding out what people didn't like in particular about the past games and just taking those parts away/revising them, but to see that the very attempt they are making to bring Sonic back to the top is making them lose fans...........it just makes me kinda sad. SEGA/Sonic Team can't win . 

Granted, I don't see the current uber-play-it-safe state of Sonic as perfect either. But I can see why they are doing it. 
 

Edited January 19, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Blue Blood]

How weren't they powerups? They were collectible items that temporarily granted you new abilities. That the game explicitly took advantage of them doesn't mean they aren't powerups.

 

Yeah, okay they were powerups. But they were so integral to the gameplay and mostly useless outside of areas designed especially for them (many of them couldn't even be activated in 3D areas) that it's hard to classify them as traditional ones. If I was to say I'd love to see powerups make a comeback in Sonic games, the Wisps aren't really what I'd have in mind.

[Fatman3000]

Yeah, Shadow's backstory was good enough. Gerald wanted to use his brain to cure his daughter. However, he needed funding. Like most scientists, he had to sell out to the government. They wanted a weapon, he wanted a cure. He created Shadow for both.

 

Aliens are... really not necessary. Given the brilliance of Eggman's family, could he seriously not engineer a life form from chaos energy alone? There could be some excuse that all DNA found on Earth wasn't very conductive to said energy, but that's nonsense since Sonic's certainly not an alien and he has no problem tapping into that power.

 

Exactly. Shadow's back story already had been explained enough with SA2. Sure he did have his amnesia, but the way I see it, even if we had skipped Shadow the hedgehog, where he "'let go" of his past that would have been no different to "Can't remember" the past as it all as little relevance to later games.

[Tani Coyote]

Exactly. Shadow's back story already had been explained enough with SA2. Sure he did have his amnesia, but the way I see it, even if we had skipped Shadow the hedgehog, where he "'let go" of his past that would have been no different to "Can't remember" the past as it all as little relevance to later games.

 

They really did drop the ball on that game. Here I was thinking they'd possibly detail more of his specifications and powers, when instead... he's the son of some octopus thing with the voice of Goku behind it. What?

 

There's no need for aliens for Shadow anymore than there is for Androids; wasn't Emerl or whatever made with data gained from the echidna records? Sounds like Earth has plenty of ancient technology on it by that standard. While some life forms such as Sonic and Knuckles can tap into Chaos energy, it's very limited in its use. Shadow's essentially just a refining of the concept - he was DESIGNED to tap into energy, and thus theoretically can wield it better than anyone else. It's no different than how while people can learn things just fine, a computer designed to take in information and evolve would be able to do so much more efficiently. Shadow's just an extension of the Robotnik love of efficiency and science. Black Whatshisface doesn't need to be near it with a ten foot pole.

 

Anyway I'm done rambling!

 

So uhhh. People griping about Knuckles having fingers in the fan film. Seriously, that's being used as a point of criticism?

[Your Vest Friend]

Yeah, okay they were powerups. But they were so integral to the gameplay and mostly useless outside of areas designed especially for them (many of them couldn't even be activated in 3D areas) that it's hard to classify them as traditional ones. If I was to say I'd love to see powerups make a comeback in Sonic games, the Wisps aren't really what I'd have in mind.

 

And certainly not in the way that the Wisps were used in Generations (i.e. completely compulsory to progression). 

[Spin Attaxx]

One thing I don't like is how Shadow's meant to be this guy who can do all sorts of fancy Chaos tricks that no-one else can do, and yet other characters can use Chaos Control. For Sonic, I guess he can because he's the main character and he barely uses the thing anyway, and Metal Sonic has to copy it... but Silver has no excuse. There is no reason for him to be able to use it other than "because 06 said he can".

 

In fact, having characters pull new powers out of nowhere irks me. Why does Silver have a Super form? Again, Sonic started the trend, Knuckles and Tail's forms have pretty much been retconned out of existance, Shadow was MADE to use the emeralds, Blaze is from another world with another set of emeralds (and a technically different form)... so what does Silver have that makes him able to turn super? Other than "because 06"?

 

There's a case of Uniqueness Decay if I ever saw it.

 

EDIT: Also, why can Amy turn invisible? Where was it even HINTED before or since 06 that Amy can do that? AND WHY CAN CHAOS CONTROL TIME TRAVEL NOW?

Edited January 20, 2013 by Spin Attaxx

[Tani Coyote]

There are some bonuses to Shadow's powers being outsourced. It takes away ammo from the "Shadow is overpowered" camp.

 

But yeah, I see what you mean. Chaos Control was his thing, and Sonic used it only because he had no real other options (I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Sonic has some sort of connection with chaos energy as well, it's just not as refined due to his being naturally born), but everyone else picking it up just ruins the value of it. Sonic picking up some of Shadow's abilities makes sense as part of their rivalry.

 

On that first note. They really should have established more of Shadow's weaknesses in his game. He was able to break Doom's mind control so that's not one, and apart from being able to die in game for gameplay purposes he seems very overpowered. He can flip buses, will live forever, is immune to disease, and I presume he'd be able to rapidly heal from any injury. Short of severe blunt force or use of the Master Emerald (I presume it can nullify his natural link as much as an emerald's), he doesn't seem to have any physical weakness.

[Fatman3000]

There are some bonuses to Shadow's powers being outsourced. It takes away ammo from the "Shadow is overpowered" camp.

 

But yeah, I see what you mean. Chaos Control was his thing, and Sonic used it only because he had no real other options (I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Sonic has some sort of connection with chaos energy as well, it's just not as refined due to his being naturally born), but everyone else picking it up just ruins the value of it. Sonic picking up some of Shadow's abilities makes sense as part of their rivalry.

 

On that first note. They really should have established more of Shadow's weaknesses in his game. He was able to break Doom's mind control so that's not one, and apart from being able to die in game for gameplay purposes he seems very overpowered. He can flip buses, will live forever, is immune to disease, and I presume he'd be able to rapidly heal from any injury. Short of severe blunt force or use of the Master Emerald (I presume it can nullify his natural link as much as an emerald's), he doesn't seem to have any physical weakness.

 

Well, he was made to be the ultimate life form. And as overpowered as he is, I still do like him as a character. Though it's sad that the last game where he had any real importance was Sonic 06.

[Amomynous]

My serious qualms with the game aside (as this is a pet peeves thread)

Shadow's very last line in Shadow the hedgehog is clearly supposed to be quoting Maria when she ejected Shadow into space.

"Good bye forever, Shadow the hedgehog."

The problem is, she doesn't say that, she says "Sayonara, Shadow the hedgehog."

 

Also the chance could have been taken to expand on what Dr.Eggman or Shadow's relationship with Gerald was like, If I recall correctly, Gerald was Eggman's grandfather, and Maria his cousin. 

Did Gerald view Shadow as his son, student, or just an experiment?

Edited January 20, 2013 by Mysterics

[Speedy]

So uhhh. People griping about Knuckles having fingers in the fan film. Seriously, that's being used as a point of criticism?

 

Probably that goes along with my pet peeve in Sonic related stuff. Why do people have to criticize everything? Do we really need to dig around for every goddamn tiny detail that might not be perfect, just so we can pick on it? What's up with that shit?

 

That aside, I support Knuckles having fingers. He's got thumbs, I don't see why he shouldn't have fingers. I think he just wears fingerless gloves, because he lives on his own on a floating island and has to make all his stuff himself. And making gloves with fingers is tough. So, no fingers on Knuckles' gloves. Doesn't mean he has none.

 

Somewhat related... Why don't Sonic characters have toes in the SA official pictures? That's really stupid. Firstly, because actual hedgehogs have toes. Secondly, they have five fingers, why not toes? I see no sense there. And thirdly, toes are really important for bipedaled creatures to properly walk/run/run/anything.

(Funnily, Sonic has toes in Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog.)

 

My serious qualms with the game aside (as this is a pet peeves thread)

Shadow's very last line in Shadow the hedgehog is clearly supposed to be quoting Maria when she ejected Shadow into space.

"Good bye forever, Shadow the hedgehog."

The problem is, she doesn't say that, she says "Sayonara, Shadow the hedgehog."

 

What Maria actually says is pretty messed-up anyway by now. In SA2, she said "Sayonara, Shadow the Hedgehog." How did that turn to "Bring hope to humanity"? Might be a translation error, or she said that at some other time and it wasn't mentioned unmistakably...

[Spin Attaxx]

Somewhat related... Why don't Sonic characters have toes in the SA official pictures? That's really stupid. Firstly, because actual hedgehogs have toes. Secondly, they have five fingers, why not toes? I see no sense there. And thirdly, toes are really important for bipedaled creatures to properly walk/run/run/anything.

(Funnily, Sonic has toes in Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog.)

 

I've seen art of Sonic characters with toes. It doesn't look right.

 

Also, if you're going to apply real world physics to Sonic, then he shouldn't be able to run at the speed of sound without causing serious damage to his body.

[Tara]

My serious qualms with the game aside (as this is a pet peeves thread)

Shadow's very last line in Shadow the hedgehog is clearly supposed to be quoting Maria when she ejected Shadow into space.

"Good bye forever, Shadow the hedgehog."

The problem is, she doesn't say that, she says "Sayonara, Shadow the hedgehog."

 

Also the chance could have been taken to expand on what Dr.Eggman or Shadow's relationship with Gerald was like, If I recall correctly, Gerald was Eggman's grandfather, and Maria his cousin. 

Did Gerald view Shadow as his son, student, or just an experiment?

In the Japanese version, she says "Adios, Shadow the Hedgehog," so maybe they wanted to boast about their amazing linguistic skills by showing they actually know how to say good-bye in three different languages... or just poor writing.  But I'm okay with the fact that he didn't directly quote Maria.  Sonic did that at the end of SA2, so it would be extremely redundant.

 

I agree with the last part though.  That's what ShTH SHOULD have been about.  It should have been about discovering the specifics on Shadow's past, his memories on board the Ark, etc.  The whole alien plot really butchered whatever... I'm not going to say realism, but worldliness that SA2 had.  I mean, when SA2 came out, it was shockingly emotional at the time, especially since it was competing with the lively, happy-go-lucky Mario franchise. (And not to sound fanboyish, but Gerald's voice actor gave a STELLAR performance; probably the best performance in the whole game)  Then ShTH dumbed it down a stupid alien story and suddenly GERALD'S A GOOD GUY NOW EVEN THOUGH HE CLEARLY WANTED TO DESTROY THE WHOLE EARTH TO AVENGE HIS GRANDDAUGHTER IN SA2.

 

So yeah, bad plot choices all the way around with ShTH.  I wouldn't have even minded the gunplay if not for the fact that the story pretty much ruined what we already established.

[Fatman3000]

In the Japanese version, she says "Adios, Shadow the Hedgehog," so maybe they wanted to boast about their amazing linguistic skills by showing they actually know how to say good-bye in three different languages... or just poor writing.  But I'm okay with the fact that he didn't directly quote Maria.  Sonic did that at the end of SA2, so it would be extremely redundant.

 

Or what if the change was intentional? He said something different to maria for once to show that he let go?

 

Then again, given the writers for that game, I doubt they had the ability to use metaphors in their writing.

[Tara]

Or what if the change was intentional? He said something different to maria for once to show that he let go?

 

Then again, given the writers for that game, I doubt they had the ability to use metaphors in their writing.

Yeah, I was going to say that I don't think the writing team would have the foresight to think about something like that, but even if they did it would have been a relatively weak metaphor.

[Vertekins]

The notion that you're not allowed to criticize something because it's fanmade and because creator of said criticized work put 'effort' into it and did something that you didn't, therefore somehow making anything they do above critique.

 

The SONIC '06 fangame and Lebron's Sonic fanfilm spring to mind.

 

Something being a "labor of 'love'" is not in any way, shape or form a defense against credible critique and any fan worth their salt would embrace critique and acknowledge that when they put their work into the public eye, they've effectively welcomed it. Being accepting of positive feedback and dismissive of critique is such an ass-backwards double standard and screams of "Pat me on the back. I did something with my time and something that you didn't do!"

[Tara]

The notion that you're not allowed to criticize something because it's fanmade and because creator of said criticized work put 'effort' into it and did something that you didn't, therefore somehow making anything they do above critique.

 

The SONIC '06 fangame and Lebron's Sonic fanfilm spring to mind.

 

Something being a "labor of 'love'" is not in any way, shape or form a defense against credible critique and any fan worth their salt would embrace critique and acknowledge that when they put their work into the public eye, they've effectively welcomed it. Being accepting of positive feedback and dismissive of critique is such an ass-backwards double standard and screams of "Pat me on the back. I did something with my time and something that you didn't do!"

That and when people treat constructive criticism as a negative thing.  I mean, yes, when worded right, it can sound harsh, but it's ultimately for the greater good.  You'll never know how to improve until you know what you did wrong.

[Komodin]

Then ShTH dumbed it down a stupid alien story and suddenly GERALD'S A GOOD GUY NOW EVEN THOUGH HE CLEARLY WANTED TO DESTROY THE WHOLE EARTH TO AVENGE HIS GRANDDAUGHTER IN SA2.

 To be perfectly fair, that recording was made before Maria's death, as clearly shown by her appearance at the very end (and the subsequent lack of Gerald's insanity). If anything, it helped to make Gerald even more of a tragic villain than he was in Sonic Adventure 2.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Komodin

[-blank-]

The notion that you're not allowed to criticize something because it's fanmade and because creator of said criticized work put 'effort' into it and did something that you didn't, therefore somehow making anything they do above critique.

 

The SONIC '06 fangame and Lebron's Sonic fanfilm spring to mind.

 

Something being a "labor of 'love'" is not in any way, shape or form a defense against credible critique and any fan worth their salt would embrace critique and acknowledge that when they put their work into the public eye, they've effectively welcomed it. Being accepting of positive feedback and dismissive of critique is such an ass-backwards double standard and screams of "Pat me on the back. I did something with my time and something that you didn't do!"

I agree with this.

 

I don't care if something's fanmade - if I don't like it, I may just damn well criticize it. Being fan-created does not act as a shield for critique.

[Tani Coyote]

Well, he was made to be the ultimate life form. And as overpowered as he is, I still do like him as a character. Though it's sad that the last game where he had any real importance was Sonic 06.

 

Oh, I like Shadow as well. Sonic if he went down a different road.

 

Though really I wish they'd show off his more antiheroic traits; a willingness to murder (common quality in the darker types) would be a major source of contention between the two. Increasingly he seems to me to be a Sonic with a darker past, rather than a hedgehog with a darker past who has a darker tendency as a result.

 

I suppose ShTH solves the issue. Shadow decided he would devote his life to serving humanity as a super soldier, but it still kind of annoys me...

 

Also the chance could have been taken to expand on what Dr.Eggman or Shadow's relationship with Gerald was like, If I recall correctly, Gerald was Eggman's grandfather, and Maria his cousin. 

Did Gerald view Shadow as his son, student, or just an experiment?

 

In Shadow the Hedgehog, Gerald's plea mentioned, "Shadow, my son." Ergo, for most of their time together it seems he took a natural fatherly demeanor towards Shadow. It was only when he went into insanity that he forsook that in favor of using Shadow as an instrument of revenge.

 

Probably that goes along with my pet peeve in Sonic related stuff. Why do people have to criticize everything? Do we really need to dig around for every goddamn tiny detail that might not be perfect, just so we can pick on it? What's up with that shit?

 

Somewhat related... Why don't Sonic characters have toes in the SA official pictures? That's really stupid. Firstly, because actual hedgehogs have toes. Secondly, they have five fingers, why not toes? I see no sense there. And thirdly, toes are really important for bipedaled creatures to properly walk/run/run/anything.

 

Yeah, the Sonic fandom's tendency to nitpick has become the stuff of legends.

 

As for toes - I remember when that was brought up at Sonic Boom 2012. I forget what Takashi Iizuka's reply to the question was though.

 

 To be perfectly fair, that recording was made before Maria's death, as clearly shown by her appearance at the very end (and the subsequent lack of Gerald's insanity). If anything, it helped to make Gerald even more of a tragic villain than he was in Sonic Adventure 2.

 

Indeed. The human mind is a very odd thing. The slightest traumatising event or chemical imbalance can have radical effects. Gerald was one of the people who could only see the worst in humanity after what he went through, and it made him go off his rocker.

 

Shadow seems to comprehend this; as I recall he primarily remembers the Professor BEFORE he went off the deep end.

 

On that note I wonder what happened between Gerald and Eggman's generations. Gerald wished to use science to better people, whereas Eggman is just a spoiled child who wants to use his talents to enslave the world instead.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice