Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Kuzu]

There's a difference between being addressed as wrong and acting ruthlessly. Sonic isn't perfect goody two-shoes in the Storybook games and he is actually criticized such as when Lancelot, Caliburn and Arthur rightfully point-out his sloppy swordsmanship and admonish him for it and he reacts negatively to that.

 

That's not what I'm referring to tho; You said Sonic isn't portrayed as a goody-goody in the storybook games, but if that's the case then do those stories really address the flaws in Sonic's character and affect the narrative in a significant way?

 

For instance, let's take Black Knight; While it is touched upon before he pulls Caliburn, in which case its mostly a one-off line, does the plot really address the moral consequences of Sonic slaying King Arthur? For the most part, its portrayed as nothing but a good thing and not something really morally questionable in the slightest.

[Vertekins]

That's not what I'm referring to tho; You said Sonic isn't portrayed as a goody-goody in the storybook games, but if that's the case then do those stories really address the flaws in Sonic's character and affect the narrative in a significant way?

Not particularly but then I don't see why they especially need to. Just because they don't do so doesn't lessen Sonic non-goody two-shoe portrayal at all. This is an issue some people fail to recognize; Just because a character's more negative mannerisms don't contribute to the main meat of the narrative to any large degree, that doesn't undermine the portrayal of such in other areas of the game.

 

For instance, let's take Black Knight; While it is touched upon before he pulls Caliburn, in which case its mostly a one-off line, does the plot really address the moral consequences of Sonic slaying King Arthur? For the most part, its portrayed as nothing but a good thing and not something really morally questionable in the slightest.

 

There were moral consequences to slaying Illusory Arthur? I'm more of the mind that the prospect of slaying Illusory Arthur flew in the face of what was expected from a Knight in that particular dimension and Sonic's reasoning for rebellion is that he's doing it for the greater good. The Knights of the round table are sitting back out of misguided loyalty to their liege and allowing Arthur and his knights of the underworld to sow terror throughout the kingdom because they feel that that loyalty is what defines them as Knights of the round table, regardless of their real priorities i.e Protecting the populace. The moral reasoning of taking-out Arthur would've been undermined by the fact that Arthur turned out to be an illusion after all, a false king. So how could Sonic truly gain character development from questioning his stance regarding taking on a fake king at the end of the day?

[Tara]

*checks watch* Oh my, is it time to start a flame war again?!

 

Just kidding.  It's simply time to complain about the VA's again.  But fear not, this isn't just Sonic.  This is a pet peeve I have in general, but I was reminded of while playing Shadow the Hedgehog.

 

 

This is a GUN soldier from Shadow the Hedgehog.  What voice do you think he would most likely have?  If you answered shrill, mid-pubescent holler... then I just don't even know anymore.

 

 

Seriously?  That is the voice you assign to them?  Why not just give Duke Nukem the voice of Shaggy from Sooby-Doo or Captain Falcon the voice of SpongeBob while you're at it?!  I mean, aside from Eggman and Shadow*, the voices for the main cast are pretty bad, in my opinion, but at least I can see that they were attempting to emulate the crew that came before them.  This?  This is just unbelievable.  Was that really the only voice you could think to give to them?

 

So naturally, that just grates on my nerves a little, but you know, it's probably just a poor decision on the part of Shadow the Hedgehog.  WAIT NO IT'S NOT.

 

Okay, so I've never been a fan of Beyblade, but just as I would any show, I come into it expecting it to follow certain principles of characterization.  I don't expect the voice acting to be supreme by any means.  But looking at the picture above, what do you think he'll sound like?  If you guess whiny, ill-controlled shout... you're right.  Oh my god.

 

 

(Skip to around 3:17)

 

Wh-why wha- how...

 

So clearly it's just an Anime thing, right?!  Something about exporting cartoons and games specifically from Japan makes it difficult for them to find appropriate dubbing, right?  Right?

 

 

Here's a picture of Jeremie from the French cartoon, Code: Lyoko.  You may remember it as the cartoon that had good music but bad pretty much everything else.**  But after watching the whole thing over again, I have to say that the very worst thing about the (English dub of the) series is the voice acting, but at least you can see the intent in most of them.  Jeremie, of course, is the odd one out in this case.  Like, what do you think he'll sound like?  Well, we can see from this picture that he's a kid and that he has glasses, therefore we can assume he's a total nerd.  So we don't expect him to sound totally badass, right?  Of course not.  But we don't expect him to sound like a drunken, off-key, nasally... person who is constantly attempting to do an impression of Patrick Star while failing miserably each and every time.  Oddly enough, that's what we got.

 

http://youtu.be/SnfUOvJqE7A

 

(Skip to 5:15)

 

But wait, Akito, I hear you avid Code: Lyoko fans saying... all two of you... that's actually his second voice actor!  It was changed in the latter half of the series!  You're right... but... really was this much better?

 

 

(Skip to 3:27)

 

Okay, so I can list several other examples, so let me just cut to the chase.  Am I just complaining about the VA's?  Sort of, but no.  Am I just complaining that the VA's aren't fitting to the character?  Again, sort of but no.  I'm complaining that we live in a world where apparently it's common practice to give characters nasally, whiny and annoying voices on purpose.  Why?  I don't know, but it's such an oddly specific trend that I can't believe it's just a thing that dubbing companies, for completely unknown reasons, choose to do.  Do they really think that having such deliberately ironic voices that match this very specific description will make the show/game more marketable to young children?  Have children ever voiced a complaint that their favorite characters didn't crack their voices nearly as much?

 

So yeah, the pet peeve here is having these voice types be cast onto characters who obviously don't fit them.  There's literally no excuse for this.  No budgetary or marketing justification for going with this strangely specific trend of giving characters intentionally annoying voices despite them not looking or having the character traits that would entitle them to it.  The main cast of the 4Kids VA's are bad, but you can at least tell they're trying their best to give the characters the proper dignity.  These are just deliberately wrong in every sense of the word and, not to sound like a broken record, but there's no reason for it.  I just... I can't.  Seriouisly, look at this.

 

 

(Skip to 2:04)

 

Seriously, what is this?!  What was the thought process behind this?  What was... I mean, look, the G.U.N. commander himself doesn't have the best voice, either, but you can at least see they what they were going for.  The regular G.U.N. soldiers, though?  Why?  Why that voice?  Why do so many English dubbed shows and cartoons think they need to do this?  It's not even a 4Kids thing, it's a thing that companies apparently think they need to do.  I just... god damn it.

 

(Also, look for Mad Dog's voice from the English dub of Yu-Gi-Oh GX; couldn't find it on YouTube to show here, but it's so horribly wrong.)

 

And while I'm on the subject, I want to address why the voice actors are such a big deal in the first place.  Because they give voice to the series.  They transfer the emotions of the story onto us.  With games, you can justifiably say that it's the gameplay that counts.  Because it's true.  Unless, of course, you're one of the many people that play Sonic specifically for the story, which there is nothing wrong with.  No one says you have to enjoy a game solely for its gameplay.  But that's not true, that's exactly what people do.  You should only enjoy something for the reasons it was intended to be enjoyed and nothing else!

 

That aside, though, you can't say the same thing about a show.  Yet, whenever I complain about it, I always hear things like "well, the voice acting is terrible but the plot is still good," which is a legit point.  But the thing is, if I can't get invested in the plot because of the acting, then that beautifully-crafted story might as well not exist.  That's not to say that acting is more important than writing.  It's not.  A bad story with good acting is just as bad as the reverse.  But often times, people will tell me, "it's the plot that matters!"  Well, aren't the characters part of the plot?  If there's something impairing my ability to enjoy the characters, then that means there's something impairing my ability to enjoy the plot.

 

But see, I'm usually very lenient when it comes to acting quality.  Roger Craig Smith wasn't exactly excellent in Colors, but he was tolerable.  The main 4Kids cast were eventually tolerable once I got over the fact that they were present in the main games.  But this is just the most questionable and objectionable sin against acting and characterization in general, and it wouldn't be nearly so bad were they not expecting us to actually take it seriously.  That's a bit of a tall order when such a deliberate misuse of cast indicates that not even the directors take the project seriously.

 

* I like Jason Griffith's Shadow... plz don't kill me.

** I also kind of like Code: Lyoko... plz reconsider killing me.

[Dizcrybe]

Maybe it's just bad casting? It happens, dude.

[Hobgoblin]

Hating on Code Lyoko is cool now?

[Tara]

Maybe it's just bad casting? It happens, dude.

But it's such an oddly specific trend of bad casting that you would think by now we'd have some kind of quality standard.  Learn from the mistakes of others, as they say.  It's not like it's just a different case of bad casting decision each time, it's the same type of bad casting decision.  The consistency of it leads me to believe that it's an intentional act on the side of the dubbing company.

 

Hating on Code Lyoko is cool now?

Never said such a thing?

Edited October 19, 2013 by Spooky Akita

[Adorkable]

Can I bump? Or is it too old? :<

[Tara]

Can I bump? Or is it too old? :<

As long as you have something worthwhile to contribute, there is no rule against topic necromancy.

[Semi-colon e]

There's this annoying tendency in Sonic 2006 to go flying into bottomless pits. That's normal for that game, but half of the alternate below paths that are supposed to catch you always seem to be just too far away or the characters have just too little momentum to actually reach the platforms. Especially in Kingdom Valley's End of the World segment, good god. I die so much in that section and it's almost never because of the orbs.

[Briraka]

I don't like it when people assume that you don't want serious or more plot-driven stories because you didn't like Sonic Team's previous attempts at doing so and then grouping you with all the ignoramuses that believe "Sonic can't/shouldn't have story".

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't like it when people assume that you don't want serious or more plot-driven stories because you didn't like Sonic Team's previous attempts at doing so and then grouping you with all the ignoramuses that believe "Sonic can't/shouldn't have story".

Well unless your proving their point by using those previous attempts as a an excuse to avoid them, you've got a lot to do to distance yourself from that stigma then.

 

Conversely, I don't like it when people who don't like these elements in a Sonic game seek to deny others from having them around when they can be done well. I can understand preventing it from looking less like a Sonic game, but like to be entertained and on the edge of my seat when I'm playing a game, and that includes heavy elements and more narrative in the games. The idea of such elements being around doesn't make it less Sonic by default.

[RustyRick]

Well if I can contribute something to this while it gets bumped:

It irks me how some people think Charmy is incredibly annoying that they can't stand him. He's supposed to be hyperactive and somewhat scatterbrained for a 6-year old kid who doesn't have a real inner conscience yet, and although very overlooked, he did manage to activate the message display in Shadow's spinoff game by ramming straight into it.

[Dr. Crusher]

I don't like it when people assume that you don't want serious or more plot-driven stories because you didn't like Sonic Team's previous attempts at doing so and then grouping you with all the ignoramuses that believe "Sonic can't/shouldn't have story".

 

Agreed, agreed, agreed. You do not know how much this irritates me. I make it a point to try and make sure that I don't throw words into other people's mouths, so it can be a little distressing when the other side doesn't return the favour.

 

Well unless your proving their point by using those previous attempts as a an excuse to avoid them, you've got a lot to do to distance yourself from that stigma then.

 

I've tried many times to explain my own stance (that being that I think it can be done well, but it just isn't something I'm interested in regardless... that doesn't mean I'm completely against it, it just means that I'm not too bothered about it), and I still get the "You only dislike the idea because it's been done badly in the past" card every now and then. I've also been given the "Stop denying what we want" card more than once, even though I've never said that I think others are wrong for disagreeing with me/wanting something else/etc.

 

Needless to say, it's only contributed to the whole "I really don't like talking about Sonic" deal with me.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I've tried many times to explain my own stance (that being that I think it can be done well, but it just isn't something I'm interested in regardless... that doesn't mean I'm completely against it, it just means that I'm not too bothered about it), and I still get the "You only dislike the idea because it's been done badly in the past" card every now and then. I've also been given the "Stop denying what we want" card more than once, even though I've never said that I think others are wrong for disagreeing with me/wanting something else/etc.

 

Needless to say, it's only contributed to the whole "I really don't like talking about Sonic" deal with me.

If you're not using the previous attempts as an excuse to avoid them, and don't exactly care for or against them, then I don't even get that myself.

 

I've been in many of the debates over this. It's one thing to say or imply "it's not something I want" or "get rid of it," as that conflicts with those who do want them. But "I don't care if it's there or not" doesn't conflict with anything, and if you're giving them that straight a response then chances are that those people are being reactionary over others liking what they don't like.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

-Brings out the list-

 

1. I hate when fans say modern fans are little kids who want Sonic to be like dragon ball z because we love super formes and powers. 1) not all modern fans are little kids. I dont think Im a little kid but yeah. 2) not all modern fans want Sonic to be exactly like DBZ. I mean yeah super formes are inspire from DBZ and the chaos emeralds but it doesnt mean we want a DBZ copy. 3) its fine that you have super formes but some of us like them for different reasons. I like Sonic and Silvers because they are intresting and they show personality a little.

 

2. I hate when people say "Sonic = Goku". They are .... not alike. I remember Goku taking things more serious then Sonic. (besides I think Sonic is more like America from Hetalia. They are both free spirits, tell jokes, always positive, takes things with a grain of sailt, can let there egos get in the way etc.)

 

3. I hate when "medicore game" is throw around to make people feel bad for liking a Sonic game they dont like. Especially to modern fans. Its like classic fans think they are perfect.

[Tara]

2. I hate when people say "Sonic = Goku". They are .... not alike. I remember Goku taking things more serious then Sonic. 

 

Yeah, no. =v

 

But I agree with what you're saying.  They're quite different in terms of mannerisms and while I do see the obvious DBZ inspirations, I think it pretty much ends there.

[Adorkable]

Okay, I have a few.

 

First off, "Sonci", the #1 typo Sonic-related on the planet. xD

Second, people who call Rings "coins", for glob's sake, people, this isn't Mario.

Last, fans who rant about literally everything, why be a fan if there's nothing you like about Sonic?

 

Got that out of my system. ^^

[Komodin]

Okay, I must admit: seeing people dismiss everything Pontac and Graff has done because they apparently got their information on the franchise from Wikipedia annoys me bunches. Frankly, it just comes across as being unnecessarily elitist with its implications that one's work isn't worth jack if you're not fully intimate with it, regardless of its actual quality. Also, in most of the times I've seen this, it assigns all the blame on them instead of at least partially blaming Sega for apparently not providing them a basic set of rules and guidelines for the do's and don'ts of the series. Also, it kinda implies Wikipedia is a bad way of acquiring information -- just because it's not citable, doesn't mean it's not useful.

 

It's just really, really meh to me, is all. =/

[Vertekins]

I don't like it when people assume that you don't want serious or more plot-driven stories because you didn't like Sonic Team's previous attempts at doing so and then grouping you with all the ignoramuses that believe "Sonic can't/shouldn't have story".

 

Kind of on the same tangent...

 

I don't like it when me or anyone who takes even slight issue with Tails' portrayals as of late are treated as if we're hankering for Tails to turn into Sonic's bootlick and fanboy and/or remain a 'boring' or undeveloped character. Apparently the Sonic Adventure games never happened.

 

I don't want Tails to turn into that. I just don't want Tails to turn into Sonic v2.0 or be characterized as excessively snarky when his sweet nature has always been a pretty prominent and attested-to facet of his character.

[FriendBot]

Okay, I must admit: seeing people dismiss everything Pontac and Graff has done because they apparently got their information on the franchise from Wikipedia annoys me bunches. Frankly, it just comes across as being unnecessarily elitist with its implications that one's work isn't worth jack if you're not fully intimate with it, regardless of its actual quality. Also, in most of the times I've seen this, it assigns all the blame on them instead of at least partially blaming Sega for apparently not providing them a basic set of rules and guidelines for the do's and don'ts of the series. Also, it kinda implies Wikipedia is a bad way of acquiring information -- just because it's not citable, doesn't mean it's not useful.

 

It's just really, really meh to me, is all. =/

 

Something tells me, this was aimed at me so I kind of apologize if I did sounded sort of elitist-like. I don't hate them and you are right that Sega should have as much blame with this as well but I don't really think Wikipedia is as good as a resource than seeing actual cutscenes of the game but that's just me.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Soni

[Diogenes]

Kind of on the same tangent...
 
I don't like it when me or anyone who takes even slight issue with Tails' portrayals as of late are treated as if we're hankering for Tails to turn into Sonic's bootlick and fanboy and/or remain a 'boring' or undeveloped character. Apparently the Sonic Adventure games never happened.
 
I don't want Tails to turn into that. I just don't want Tails to turn into Sonic v2.0 or be characterized as excessively snarky when his sweet nature has always been a pretty prominent and attested-to facet of his character.

I still don't see how SLoW Tails is anywhere near "excessive".

 

I mean...I'm not trying to attack anyone here, I'm not trying to start a big argument. But it feels like people are twisting everything the game did out of proportion and interpreting it in the worst possible light. Tails shows some confidence in his skills and jokes about it with Sonic, and he's suddenly a braggart. Sonic acts impulsively and makes a mistake, and suddenly he's an idiot. Tails feels hurt and betrayed and acts out because of it, and he's suddenly a jerk. I don't see how people get that out of the game unless they're going into it without even trying to engage with it.

 

Tails isn't even that much different outside of the parts where he's upset. If he comes off as more snarky and less polite, it's not because of some radical shift in the character, it's because it's the first time he's been allowed to be upset. And I hate that it gets turned into a flaw and called "out of character", instead of being seen as a new aspect of the character being revealed. Especially when it's things like that that the series needs; we want the series to tell stories that can be taken seriously, but people shrink away and reject it as soon as they try, just because it's outside their comfort zone.

[Indigo Rush]

Well I just checked out this topic and it turns out I haven't visited it in over a year.

 

This was my last post:

I have a pet-peeve. It's probably been mentioned, but heck if I will bother digging through all those pages to be sure.

 

 

HIS ARMS.

 

ARE NOT.

 

BLUE.

 

 

 

SSMB I'M SORRY

[Your Vest Friend]

Well, they're not in that particular product, so it still holds.

 

/murdering the joke

[SlickEvan]

I remember a school project I was working on with teamates and I went to the bathroom, came back, and they painted his arms blue. A fierce argument was had that day. We went to the teacher to look it up and a couple pictures with blue arms came up, but finally the verdict came to peach. We all made up quickly though as we we're kids.

Thats one of the first things I remembered when I saw Boom.

(Looks at avatar.. do I have an internal struggle with this? Dx nuuuuu)

[Dr. Crusher]

Alright, I need to get this off my chest, I've hid in the shadows about it long enough. I understand that this won't be a popular sentiment, and I apologise in advance if I offend anybody as a result of this post, but... here goes nothing.

 

When it comes to this place, I personally feel that the "decline" of the series is a subject that gets talked about to infinity, and I admit to it driving me nuts.

 

Now, it's perfectly (...and obviously?) okay to talk about something you want to talk about, and it's to be expected that some people aren't happy because they haven't been given what they want. But this subject in particular is one that I feel gets talked about constantly. For example, look at the "So... What's so Bad About the Series' Current Direction?" topic. Now look at the "Downward Spiral of Characterization and Plot" topic. I don't know about you, but from what I can see, the discussions in those two topics look exactly the same. And that's without getting into all the other topics that start off as or inevitably devolve into the same arguments and debates. And that's without getting into the statuses that make the same rants we've seen before. I know it's a common occurence for topics and subjects to be repeated - again, it's to be expected - but this one takes it to a whole new level. And sometimes I get the impression that some folk feel as though they're breaking new ground when making their rants about it, when in reality it's just storming the same dilapidated castle over and over.

 

Now just to be clear, I don't get annoyed by this whole routine solely because "I don't agree with them", because we all know that everyone will have different opinions when it comes to everything to ever exist by default. No, even if I did agree, I think I'd still be going "Really guys? Yet again?" It's like if I talked about Mephiles/Scourge/Nega/etc and how much I dislike them all the time. It would get old fast, you know? Everyone has their reasons for their dislikes, but no one likes a perpetual negative nancy.

 

And it's not just the repetitive nature of the subject in itself. There's also how it often invades or intersects with something else, when there was absolutely no reason for it to do so. I could be talking about, say, how much I love Aquarium Park's visuals, and then I'll get a reply that complains about how the level design/platforming/story/character interaction/etc should have been up to the same standard, and it's just... what was the point in that? Was that really necessary?

 

This is one reason why I find it difficult to talk about Sonic here. You want to talk about one thing, but it always comes back to this subject.