Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Blacklightning]

In a way I blame Sega for it - they themselves can't seem to decide on a single image or gameplay scheme for their icon, and their obsession with constantly introducing superflous bullshit every single time they create a new game means that brand identity is frankly all over the fucking place. The very fact that there isn't a "one true Sonic" anymore is exactly what breeds this kind of factionalism to start with, because the fanbase itself is literally divided thanks to Sonic Team's inability to just pick a fucking approach and stick with it. And I'm sure there's something to be said of Sega failing to unify canon when the hands of others adapt it too, but for the life of me the right words don't occur to me.

 

I hope this doesn't come off as trying to call the kettle black, but remember how the classics did it? Nearly everything they introduced was purely incremental development, and complimented fundemental aspects of the gameplay they'd already established tried and true. The Spindash, for example, was simply an extension of Sonic's existing ability to roll, and augmented it in such ways that it's legitimately hard to imagine playing a Sonic game without it, and all the while not even compromising the original move's usefulness. And even when the games did think up an otherwise arbitary gimmick, they had the tact to introduce them as level quirks instead - Sonic CD being the obvious exception here - where they had no hope of overstaying their welcome. Can we just have more games made with this mentality? Is it really so hard just to build on what we already have?

[Semi-colon e]

I'm glad they phased this one out from Unleashed on (aside from Generations final boss) but the constant bullshit chatter in levels. Heroes was fine with it because the characters mostly talked to each other and even the Chaotix crew had what sounded like actual conversation. In Shadow it was fine with allies but less so himself, and 06 was obnoxious with how characters talked to themselves.

 

It's like they just had to have the characters say something no matter how little sense it made (why would Silver be shocked that "the building's knocked over?" he's lived there all his life) and to just tell you how to play the game constanty. The worst offender is the Egg Wyvern if you die twice - at the start of the third time, Sonic will literally monologue on how to beat the boss for a good 30 seconds. I'm not even joking.

 

Also there's the obligatory parts like "Gotta be careful not to fall off here!" and then the homing attack missing the rope and you going into a pit. It's already annoying enough, but having the stupid obnoxious warning is even worse. Just keep it to hint bubbles like what later games did (though apparently Lost World fucked that up by going the other way).

[-blank-]

Another example I recall is that, after re-watching SatAM a few years back, I went looking for a SatAM forum. Big mistake. It was peopled almost entirely by SatAM fanboys and fangirls who absolutely hated any other version of Sonic, especially the games.

 

Oh, I know what forum you're talking about. Used to be a member myself. Key word, used to.

 

But I agree with pretty much everything you said. Yeah, you're allowed to like one version of Sonic better than another, but to act like a self-righteous asshole about it? Bash people who like other versions of Sonic? No. Screw that bullshit.

[Kaze no Klonoa]

The writing in some of the Sonic games are just PLAIN awful. Generations is pretty much a good example.

[Gabz Girl]

Stupid pointless gimmicks that SEGA just luuuurves to add to each Sonic game, or randomly changing the gameplay style altogether. I'm glad they changed boost2win to parkour and platforming but omg they should've ironed it out more! There wasn't even an in-game tutorial or any proper instructions on how to use the parkour controls. It was mostly guess work, vague descriptions or look it up online to find out!

 

I hope SEGA sticks to parkour in the next game and improves it so that it becomes a great platforming mechanic, but we all know they're going to change AGAIN to some other pointless gameplay gimmick we don't need in our Sonic games.

[Dizcrybe]

I hope SEGA sticks to parkour in the next game and improves it so that it becomes a great platforming mechanic, but we all know they're going to change AGAIN to some other pointless gameplay gimmick we don't need in our Sonic games.

 

Or just go the safe route and go back to boost.

[Gabz Girl]

Or just go the safe route and go back to boost.

 

Which is something I don't particularly like but eh. =P

[Dizcrybe]

I wouldn't mind it, but it'll never happen considering how much Lost World was thrashed by fans.

 

*sigh*

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I really like the boost and I was sad it go away. I love the sense  of speed.

[Dizcrybe]

I really like the boost and I was sad it go away. I love the sense  of speed.

 

Don't worry, there's a good chance you'll see it again in a couple of years.

[SlickEvan]

I'm sorry but... I hope boost doesn't return. I'm hoping they keep lost worlds formula add adventure 1 physics type thing. Remove run button (which is practically -50 boost but really slow eithout a meter) and don't put so much focus on parkour, add it in naturally. And I'd buy a wiiu for it.

Oh and maybe. Please. Please add tails playable? :3 and open level design

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Don't worry, there's a good chance you'll see it again in a couple of years.

it will make me happy to be a boost fan if they do

[StaticMania]

Or just go the safe route and go back to boost.

That won't be the "Best" possible decision...it'd  be nice if they would at least try to do more with the new style, than just going straight back to the Boost game-play.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I wish there was a Sonic game where you can mix and mach moves. Sonic can do alot of things like use wisps, use weapons like a soard, run on walls, boost, kick attack, spindash, air boost, double jump, physical combat, stop time, go backwerds, do tricks, jump dash, roll and many others.

 

Im wondering if there could be a Sonic only game where these moves are avalable to you but you can only chose 5 from the list.

[Straw Hat]

Maybe SA1 styled gameplay with some new features and one pure gameplay style?

[Mania Pipe]

I don't know how many other members have talked about this particular subject, but I just want to chime in on this too.

 

I'm really tired of the whole Solo-Sonica thing. Sonic Team can't seem to shake off the stigma with the whole playable friends fiasco from Sonic 06. Every other game, except SatBK and Sonic Rush Adventure, afterwards was just nothing but Sonic and only Sonic being playable in Single player mode. They've even went to such great lengths to make sure that Sonic was the only Playable character in the games. Not even Tails gets a chance to shine when there were clearly multiple opportunities for him to be playable. They're just background characters. I thought Sonic Lost World would've been the one to break out of that Solo-Sonica phase because of Online co-op or Multiplayer races, but nope. Instead we get the Sonic robot recolors from Sonic Colors. 

 

That's why I'm hopeful for Sonic Boom because of Tails, Knuckles and Amy being playable, but Sonic Team really needs to lose that lack of confidence and just go for it. Make them all play similar to Sonic while giving them their own unique movesets and quirks. It's just that simple!

Edited April 3, 2014 by Electro Pipe

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Its not all thrown together...they're trying to make the teams balanced, so for every advantage a team has there is also a disadvantage. If not an actual disadvantage, than its just something that the player doesn't like about that specific team pairing.

Might I say that you're expecting a bit too much from the game...you're not suppose to gain other character's main abilities that's not how the mechanic was meant to work. You get different traits from a team pairing along with the partner mechanic.

It may be useful like Tails being able to use the Hammer while flying being partnered with Amy, Knuckles getting extra height in his glide from being partnered with Tails, Amy getting a small glide with balloons from being partnered with cream or it could not be so useful like Knuckles getting a skull bash attack from being with Sonic, Sonic not being able to spin jump when partnered with Amy(I'm pretty sure he does anyway by pressing the button again), and Tails not being able to fly and only glide from being partnered with Knuckles...

i didnt want them to get all the ablities i thought that it would be in your moves. like Sonic using his hammer in the freaking air for one instead of being a useless weapon.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06QJMKkfi84&feature=youtu.be

 

 

my thing is:

-Knuckles cant glide he head butts when hes with Sonic. I like the head butt dash. but i feels empty without his gliding.

-Sonic/characters cant do hammer tricks with Amy. (no one can) He can only hit springs when hes close to them. He cant use it while in the air. Seriously why give a character a hammer if its useless?

-Chao tricks are half. Serioulsy why give the chao options if its not going to be the same?

-Homing attack seems like a super dash that doesnt target anything.

-I dont get the point of the giant hammer moves

-Why can Sonic do tricks when hes with Tails?? I dont like Advance 2 but i LIKE the tricks but the limit to 2 characters togather. i dont think that was fair. everyone should do tricks.

 

but yeah my complains on the teams.

[Straw Hat]

 my thing is:

-Knuckles cant glide he head butts when hes with Sonic. I like the head butt dash. but i feels empty without his gliding.

-Sonic/characters cant do hammer tricks with Amy. (no one can) He can only hit springs when hes close to them. He cant use it while in the air. Seriously why give a character a hammer if its useless?

-Chao tricks are half. Serioulsy why give the chao options if its not going to be the same?

-Homing attack seems like a super dash that doesnt target anything.

-I dont get the point of the giant hammer moves

-Why can Sonic do tricks when hes with Tails?? I dont like Advance 2 but i LIKE the tricks but the limit to 2 characters togather. i dont think that was fair. everyone should do tricks.

 

but yeah my complains on the teams.

Did you even read the comment you replied to...? He clearly stated why the things you don't like in Advance 3 are the way they are.

[Kuzu]

Wow its been a while since I posted in this topic.

 

 

I guess I'm starting to get real tired of the plot and characterization debates, if only because they tend to delve into the same pact mentality most of the time. Its to the point where I almost do not care what direction Sega do with the categories at this point.

[Junko]

Ooh, I got one, although, its probably been mentioned. Knuckles' devolution from Master Emerald guardian. Now, he pretty muchs serves as comic relief. Don't get me wrong, he was that in SA1/2, but that was balanced. He did his job and had a humourous side to him. SA2 Knuckles was the best Knuckles. He didn't get duped by Eggman, did his job, and helped everyone else against the Space Colony ARK incident. And he was still plenty funny in the scenes and lines that he had. So yeah, my two cents.

[StaticMania]

Ooh, I got one, although, its probably been mentioned. Knuckles' devolution from Master Emerald guardian. Now, he pretty muchs serves as comic relief. Don't get me wrong, he was that in SA1/2, but that was balanced. He did his job and had a humourous side to him. SA2 Knuckles was the best Knuckles. He didn't get duped by Eggman, did his job, and helped everyone else against the Space Colony ARK incident. And he was still plenty funny in the scenes and lines that he had. So yeah, my two cents.

The Master Emerald tends to hold Knuckles back for possible appearances...if it wasn't for the Last Story, Knuckles would've literally had no purpose in Sa2...and its not like they couldn't have told that part differently.

 

The Master Emerald being involved in the plot is something they were driving away from when they realized that it CAN'T be done all the time just so Knuckles can have a role in the story and keep the story feeling fresh and interesting at the same time. ..every once and while maybe...and its not like they would've cut Knuckles from the later stories, because until Unleashed they wanted to stuff every character they could into the games for no real reason.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The Master Emerald tends to hold Knuckles back for possible appearances...if it wasn't for the Last Story, Knuckles would've literally had no purpose in Sa2...and its not like they couldn't have told that part differently.

 

The Master Emerald being involved in the plot is something they were driving away from when they realized that it CAN'T be done all the time just so Knuckles can have a role in the story and keep the story feeling fresh and interesting at the same time. ..every once and while maybe...and its not like they would've cut Knuckles from the later stories, because until Unleashed they wanted to stuff every character they could into the games for no real reason.

I highly doubt it's a case of them not being able to do it all the time. I'd say it's more that they suck as writers and in the worst case are creatively bankrupt or just flat out don't care (which leads to people continuing to complain). And really, we've known this for a long time.

 

We're talking about writers who added more junk to Shadow's backstory by making him an alien hybrid, and making ShTH the atrocity of a narrative it was. We're talking about writers who set Blaze as an inhabitant of the future instead of an alternate dimension in Sonic 06, or even disregarding that writers who weren't capable of keeping track of their own events, failed to make a competent antagonist who's scheming actually made any sense, or all around sidelining Sonic (whether intentionally or not) in favor of Shadow and Silver as far as who handles the main antagonists of the narrative. Mind you, these were fresh plots in themselves, and yet it was partially because they ignored everything about Knuckles that people feel he's in this mess in the first place.

 

Nevermind how they continuously go from one extreme to another when trying to solve problems, making others wonder if they even know of a middle ground, as they continuously sideline characters and don't seem to know how to fix the problems that make people dislike them. Yet we're also talking about writers who can somehow make the Chaos Emerald relevant in every plot and give them extrodinary abilities thanks to their nature already being that of Deus Ex Machinas that can solve plots. Writers who've, for all their screw ups, created this massive, diverse, and extrodinary world, yet somehow they can't make ONE plot device feel fresh after doing it many times for others?

 

Yeah, I find that they can't do it all the time hard to believe. They have WAY more than enough material to do it for at least a decade (if not more), whether it's given a major or minor use.

[Splash the Otter]

I still think the main problem with Knuckles has less to do with his being away from Angel Island and more to do with the current lack of anything else to define him. People wouldn't complain so much if he actually did something useful, but at the moment his only settings are "one of Sonic's friends" and "the guy who isn't allowed to do anything fun because of that fucking rock".

[StaticMania]

Its not only that they can't do it all the time, they literally just seem to be close minded to thinking of using the Emerald OR Knuckles for anything else that would actually be interesting for the story...that type of thinking is why they were "limited" to what Knuckles they thought they could do with him. There is literally only 1 instance of using the Master Emerald in an interesting way...in Sonic Rivals 2.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I still think the main problem with Knuckles has less to do with his being away from Angel Island and more to do with the current lack of anything else to define him. People wouldn't complain so much if he actually did something useful, but at the moment his only settings are "one of Sonic's friends" and "the guy who isn't allowed to do anything fun because of that fucking rock".

 

Or maybe, as I've already said, it's just being creatively bankrupt or not caring anything about the character other than "oh look, there's Knuckles!"  Hardly any of us who complain about these things made a big deal about Knuckles being around in games like Generations bare bone plot aside, or better yet actually wondered why the hell isn't he and everyone else around helping out when the Earth was shattered into several pieces in Unleashed.

 

So him being away from Angel Island is only half of a really easily solved problem, and part of the reason why is because they don't give any good reason for doing so as if it doesn't exist for him, or when they do pull it off it's often in the worst or most lacking narratives they've made or even completely miss their chance when it came to Unleashed. We've had this discussion before,  

 

And even then it's not like he can't do anything useful because of "that fucking rock" when "that fucking rock" is one of the most powerful objects in the series. He has plenty of material there to build into new tools, a lot of which you can base on "that fucking rock", but they're just not bothering to use it. Nor do they bother crafting any new material for him, because even disregarding that, they just throw all of Knuckles entire being aside just to having him around for the sake of being around. They don't craft any new material for him (whether it's through "that fucking rock" or something completely different), they ignore the old material that assisted in building him in the first place, and thanks to the whole "shitty friends" syndrome they don't bother to do anything beyond the bare minimum of spotting him in the game.

 

The over-arching problem is that Knuckles, like every other character, is merely an afterthought as far as using his character goes, which leads to a lot of these other problems, of which Knuckles just happens to have issues specific to him.

 

Its not only that they can't do it all the time, they literally just seem to be close minded to thinking of using the Emerald OR Knuckles for anything else that would actually be interesting for the story...that type of thinking is why they were "limited" to what Knuckles they thought they could do with him. There is literally only 1 instance of using the Master Emerald in an interesting way...in Sonic Rivals 2.

And Sonic Battle, and Sonic Chronicles if you're going to use spin-off games. So that's literally three instances of using the Master Emerald in an interesting way. Four games if you're including Sonic Rivals 1.

 

But I certainly agree with the idea of them being close minded of using either Knuckles or the Emerald, because they seem to be that way for most of the whole cast.