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Sonic-related pet peeves?


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Finally decided to check out this thread. Skimmed a few from two pages back and eh.
 

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

What happened to Super form extra battles? The last one we had was in Mania, and even then, it’s only for the original mode and not Encore. Maybe it’s due to the Chaos Emeralds losing all relevance starting from Lost World, but...

The threats and/or plots in most games after Unleashed haven't really necessitated or provided reasonable access to them besides Generations.

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Honestly I've never cared for the super form final stages. Sure it's a nice bonus, but I always feel like it undermines Sonic and friends overcoming they're problems with their own abilities. It's just a nice little message in a way when a children's franchise shows that using your natural talents and skill that any problem can be overcome compared to grabbing magic rocks to solve everything. I mean, I like Super Sonic as a bonus for collecting the Chaos Emeralds, but even then just unlocking the games true ending is enough of a reward om it's own to me. Of course that ties back into another reason why I like Sonic CD so much as it is my choice how to get the true ending and that it doesn't necessarily rely on collecting magic rocks to solve my problems. If I put in the effort I can still get the best outcome without collecting the magic rocks.

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3 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Honestly I've never cared for the super form final stages. Sure it's a nice bonus, but I always feel like it undermines Sonic and friends overcoming they're problems with their own abilities. It's just a nice little message in a way when a children's franchise shows that using your natural talents and skill that any problem can be overcome compared to grabbing magic rocks to solve everything. I mean, I like Super Sonic as a bonus for collecting the Chaos Emeralds, but even then just unlocking the games true ending is enough of a reward om it's own to me. Of course that ties back into another reason why I like Sonic CD so much as it is my choice how to get the true ending and that it doesn't necessarily rely on collecting magic rocks to solve my problems. If I put in the effort I can still get the best outcome without collecting the magic rocks.

To be fair, most of those had Sonic fight in areas he can't reasonable transverse normally.

Colors Wii and Lost World had the advantage of still being in Terminal Velocity and Lava Mountain wasn't exactly toxic to one's health either.

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8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, most of those had Sonic fight in areas he can't reasonable transverse normally.

Colors Wii and Lost World had the advantage of still being in Terminal Velocity and Lava Mountain wasn't exactly toxic to one's health either.

Where the final battle takes place and what exists there is entirely up to the developers, though. There's nothing stopping them from throwing a bunch of platforms into space or the Earth's core or the interdimensional void or wherever.

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It's been a really long time since a Super Sonic boss was any fun to me but I think the games are in a weird space where the final boss fights usually end up really gimmicky and not that fun regardless. We've been doing the same autorunner thing since Colors. Just give me a boss that uses the skills I've developed in the game. 

Storywise I think the series forgot how to use Super Sonic as a character beat. In the series the games are cribbing from the transformation is usually a sign of growth, realization, or a newfound wave of inspiration. In this sense the Super Transformation isn't all that much of a harm moral wise so I'm not sure what the argument is there. Sometimes you need help, inspiration or insight to win. Sonic realizes people are counting on him and taps into new potential in SA1. Shadow has grown as a character so he gets access to a new power at the end of SA2. It's a very simple, timeless trope but the series is no stranger to those. 

It was Sonic Heroes onward where these confrontations start to feel kind of obligatory, but only because they were doing the same thing with the same characters over and over again, often without the above mentioned insight and usually because of some obligatory need to have an explosive finale. They abused an effective idea until it became pretty bland. 

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3 hours ago, Wraith said:

It's been a really long time since a Super Sonic boss was any fun to me but I think the games are in a weird space where the final boss fights usually end up really gimmicky and not that fun regardless. We've been doing the same autorunner thing since Colors. Just give me a boss that uses the skills I've developed in the game. 

Storywise I think the series forgot how to use Super Sonic as a character beat. In the series the games are cribbing from the transformation is usually a sign of growth, realization, or a newfound wave of inspiration. In this sense the Super Transformation isn't all that much of a harm moral wise so I'm not sure what the argument is there. Sometimes you need help, inspiration or insight to win. Sonic realizes people are counting on him and taps into new potential in SA1. Shadow has grown as a character so he gets access to a new power at the end of SA2. It's a very simple, timeless trope but the series is no stranger to those. 

It was Sonic Heroes onward where these confrontations start to feel kind of obligatory, but only because they were doing the same thing with the same characters over and over again, often without the above mentioned insight and usually because of some obligatory need to have an explosive finale. They abused an effective idea until it became pretty bland. 

I was thinking something more along the lines of the Dimps games; something that’s not obligatory but wraps things up quite nicely. Except Forces. The only reason the game lacked a required final Super battle is probably the budget. 

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12 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

I was thinking something more along the lines of the Dimps games; something that’s not obligatory but wraps things up quite nicely. Except Forces. The only reason the game lacked a required final Super battle is probably the budget. 

Well that and the fact that not only is Super Sonic DLC/unlockable like in Colors & Lost World, but they likely wanted to keep Buddy relatively grounded.

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7 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Well that and the fact that not only is Super Sonic DLC/unlockable like in Colors & Lost World, but they likely wanted to keep Buddy relatively grounded.

Be like Advance 3 and put Buddy in the Eggmobile, I guess. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Probably my biggest pet peeve related to Sonic is when his quills are represented as appendages or covered in their own fur. It's like no one realizes that a quill is a sharp, thick, and stiff hair itself. it's not an appendage or something that grows hair on it as it is hair. If you start putting hair on a quill Sonic might as well be a bird at that point since a feather is a quill covered in specialized hairs. It's also part of the reason I get annoyed when I see any of the hedgehogs' quills flowing as quills are rigid and not lax.

... boy writing this really got me riled up. Kind of funny how it bothers me that much I guess.

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30 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Probably my biggest pet peeve related to Sonic is when his quills are represented as appendages or covered in their own fur. It's like no one realizes that a quill is a sharp, thick, and stiff hair itself. it's not an appendage or something that grows hair on it as it is hair.

Appendage?

30 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 If you start putting hair on a quill Sonic might as well be a bird at that point since a feather is a quill covered in specialized hairs. It's also part of the reason I get annoyed when I see any of the hedgehogs' quills flowing as quills are rigid and not lax.

... boy writing this really got me riled up. Kind of funny how it bothers me that much I guess.

I think that's more a stylistic/personification thing, honestly.

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Appendage?

Like a limb so to speak. For example in SaSART when Sonic is electrocuted his quills have bones O.o

It's like no one understands what a hedgehog is.

6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I think that's more a stylistic/personification thing, honestly.

Oh I agree but when it happens in official and officially licensed products like Unleased and the upcoming movie based on that silhouette it just gets so under my skin. The movie though is a particularly bad case though with them claiming that they want to be realistic and then messing up something as fundamental as a hedgehog's quills all of my other complaints about the design aside. 

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1 minute ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Like a limb so to speak. For example in SaSART when Sonic is electrocuted his quills have bones O.o

It's like no one understands what a hedgehog is.

 

What the fries?!

2 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Oh I agree but when it happens in official and officially licensed products like Unleased and the upcoming movie based on that silhouette it just gets so under my skin. The movie though is a particularly bad case though with them claiming that they want to be realistic and then messing up something as fundamental as a hedgehog's quills all of my other complaints about the design aside. 

Probably should've specified that I meant the blowing in the wind thing, but yeah.

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  • 1 month later...

So this one is pretty straightforward, or so I like to think, but I get irritated when Sonic based off of Oshima's design is treated as a significantly younger character than when based off of Uekawa's design. I know the primary reason's for this boil down to Generations [where they purposely made him shorter than he actually is (Sonic has always been listed as 100cm regardless of art style)] due to the wild difference in proportions, and how much older Uekawa's design looks compared to a lot of examples of Oshima's if you start getting far enough away from the franchise's beginnings, but as someone who has been with the franchise since the beginning and was introduced to him as the cool teenager that everyone looked up to it just doesn't sit right with me. However, fans are one thing in this case but SEGA is a different story as they actively know better. Sure they've jacked up ages before such as Amy gaining four years for little reason except maybe to make her a more viable love interest to Sonic compared to a kid half his age, but again messing up Sonic himself is a whole other beast.

If you check out Sonic's profile over on Sonic channel you'll see that he is listed as 15 which matches up with most places where his age is listed as part of his bio. So, if Oshima's design is younger than he surely must have some correlating bio somewhere to support this as well, but I've admittedly never found one. In fact, the only bio I've ever found actually tells a rather different story

latest?cb=20120129030029

So, 16, not 15. And better yet, this is a profile from before Uekawa's redesign to make Sonic less cute which means that only Oshima's design was in use meaning that Sonic from adventure onwards is actually younger than he was before then. Yet SEGA since Generations has wanted to treat Oshima's design as though Sonic was always some little kid instead of the teenager he was originally implied to be and obviously influenced the changes with Uekawa's redesign. It's honestly just plain ridiculous to me.

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11 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

So this one is pretty straightforward, or so I like to think, but I get irritated when Sonic based off of Oshima's design is treated as a significantly younger character than when based off of Uekawa's design. I know the primary reason's for this boil down to Generations [where they purposely made him shorter than he actually is (Sonic has always been listed as 100cm regardless of art style)] due to the wild difference in proportions, and how much older Uekawa's design looks compared to a lot of examples of Oshima's if you start getting far enough away from the franchise's beginnings, but as someone who has been with the franchise since the beginning and was introduced to him as the cool teenager that everyone looked up to it just doesn't sit right with me. However, fans are one thing in this case but SEGA is a different story as they actively know better. Sure they've jacked up ages before such as Amy gaining four years for little reason except maybe to make her a more viable love interest to Sonic compared to a kid half his age, but again messing up Sonic himself is a whole other beast.

If you check out Sonic's profile over on Sonic channel you'll see that he is listed as 15 which matches up with most places where his age is listed as part of his bio. So, if Oshima's design is younger than he surely must have some correlating bio somewhere to support this as well, but I've admittedly never found one. In fact, the only bio I've ever found actually tells a rather different story

latest?cb=20120129030029

So, 16, not 15. And better yet, this is a profile from before Uekawa's redesign to make Sonic less cute which means that only Oshima's design was in use meaning that Sonic from adventure onwards is actually younger than he was before then. Yet SEGA since Generations has wanted to treat Oshima's design as though Sonic was always some little kid instead of the teenager he was originally implied to be and obviously influenced the changes with Uekawa's redesign. It's honestly just plain ridiculous to me.

You think that's bad? This one states that Knuckles is 15 even though he is said to be 16.

File:CS K US.png

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Sonic is a great runner, but when reaching his highest possible speeds as Super Sonic he just flies and doesn't use his legs at all. It doesn't make much sense that he just suddenly stops running, but I can let it by simply because of the rule of cool. It certainly gets across the idea of Super Sonic being incredibly powerful very well. But where I have to draw the line is Shadow's boosting animation. He already wears hover skates which are "rule of cool" enough as it is (plus he's got all his teleporting shenanigans and everything else), so why does he completely give up on any leg movement at all when he boosts? It's really just a minor pet peeve, but hey that's what this thread is for. I just wish that he kept his infinitely cooler and more unique skating animation over boring flight. 

Also on a similar note, Sonic's running drift in Unleashed looks way better than his ball drift in Generations. There's a place for both of them though, and I quite like seeing Sonic curl up for brief periods because that's his schtick.

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5 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Sonic is a great runner, but when reaching his highest possible speeds as Super Sonic he just flies and doesn't use his legs at all. It doesn't make much sense that he just suddenly stops running, but I can let it by simply because of the rule of cool. It certainly gets across the idea of Super Sonic being incredibly powerful very well. But where I have to draw the line is Shadow's boosting animation. He already wears hover skates which are "rule of cool" enough as it is (plus he's got all his teleporting shenanigans and everything else), so why does he completely give up on any leg movement at all when he boosts? It's really just a minor pet peeve, but hey that's what this thread is for. I just wish that he kept his infinitely cooler and more unique skating animation over boring flight. 

Also on a similar note, Sonic's running drift in Unleashed looks way better than his ball drift in Generations. There's a place for both of them though, and I quite like seeing Sonic curl up for brief periods because that's his schtick.

Super Sonic can hover in general, so I'd say it makes sense.

And since Shadow is a middling offshoot between Super and Metal, him flying when boosting seems fitting enough as well.

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On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 7:08 PM, Mountaindewandsprite said:

You think that's bad? This one states that Knuckles is 15 even though he is said to be 16.

File:CS K US.png

That profile should actually be from the same source which is pre-Adventure and hence age changes in general. So if that is taken into consideration then Knuckles was originally created as a character who is younger than Sonic, which makes sense to me as someone who views Sonic as an older character that all the younger characters look up to. However, Knuckles' closeness in age and lack of experience makes it easier for him to clash with Sonic as he isn't anywhere near as impressionable as little kids like Tails and Amy. resultantly it doesn't really bother me as much as Sonic being treated as a little kid from a time era where he was given an age older than he currently and had the same height and weight.

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Going by the Japanese Sonic Jam profile for Sonic (which said 15-16, not 16 only), they're intended to just be a similar age. That hasn't really changed. 

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I still think applying specific ages to the Sonic cast is kinda dumb and unnecessary any way. They don't actually make sense in  any context within the series. Amy is an army general at age 12 in Forces? Charmy is a private detective and sent to infiltrate a dilapidated military facility at age 6, and Cream is supposed be the same age? Lol sod that. Personally, I just tend to disregard the ages entitling because they don't really mean nor add to anything. Some of the cast are kids, the majority aren't, and you can just sort gauge relative ages. Whether Sonic is 15 or 16 really doesn't matter. What birthday was he celebrating in Generations anyway?

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