Sonic-related pet peeves?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yes, that's a good explanation. I think our disagreement was in semantics, then. I mean, what starts both determination and stubborness, confidence and cockiness, skepticism and distrust are the same principles. But that's what I'm also saying, you know? The situation redeems or condemns.

Yeah, it's a trade-off in other words. Otherwise, the character becomes bland: since they don't have flaws, there's no tension or suspense in whether the character will succeed or not. There's always something that redeems rather than fluctuate between being a detriment or a benefit. A pet-peeve which many have started to associate with Sonic given the current writing as of now.

[Kuzu]

I think most people give Shadow crap because most of his "flaws" are never presented as such, he's arrogant, violent, introverted and tends to keep to himself but most of the time these traits hardly, if ever slow him down, or have as much consequence as the other characters. Compared to Knuckles who's stubbornness and gullibility is a constant form of ridicule and humiliation for him. Shadow is almost never seen as anything less and than "perfectly badass" on all fronts; His game is contrived to make it so that he is literally the only one who's relevant, while everyone else may as well be his sidekicks, in 06 he's the only character to learn what's going on, and is the main driving force that fights against Mephiles.

And going back to abilities, while I don't mind how much power he has, there are times when his power fluctuates from about everyone else's level to fucking Dragon Ball Z levels, case and point Sonic X.

[Dr. Crusher]

The usage of his rings being some sort of resisting chain holding him back from his full power in Sonic X and Sonic 06 probably doesn't speak well for him either.

Oh yeah, another thing; I was annoyed by how as a result of the realism in 06, Robotnik's robots felt more like G.U.N. robots, doubly so since Truck and Commander aside I'm not much of a G.U.N. fan. Even White Acropolis felt more like Prison Island than it did anything Eggmany.

At first, I thought you were being playful, but now I'm gonna be be blunt: I think you need to chill out when 1) I wasn't even pointing it at you and 2) I'm an introvert myself.

You want to be picky about this whole thing, I gave it a strength just as much as I did a weakness, and while I don't want to be an asshole over this the last thing I need is to pick a fight with someone getting grumpy at me for deconstructing a character trait because of how they feel about it in real life.

Just because something is a flaw doesn't mean it's a bad thing, at least regarding people, so it would help the both of us if you not make this personal.

Look, I just think you should have worded yourself a little better, that's all. Saying outright about things like certain traits being flaws or otherwise can often lead to disaster in many instances. I was joking the first time (come on, I'm not that bad), but at the same time I don't think it's entirely fair on those who get harassed for it in real life, and I don't think they'd like a reminder on how they're looked at by the outside (not me though, I'm used to it, even if it's annoying).

I'm not trying to be picky or personal or anything, I just thought it could give the wrong sort of message. Please be a little more considerate with how you word things in the future, that's all I'm asking.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Kuzu]

The usage of his rings being some sort of resisting chain holding him back from his full power in Sonic X and Sonic 06 probably doesn't speak well for him either.

See this by itself would be considered bad, but, for all of the crap Sonic X gets, it handled the whole ring thing pretty well; when Shadow used them, he was severely fatigued afterwards and it gives some bit of explanation on why he almost died in Sa2 while Sonic survived just fine. 06 decided to completely ignore that tho, and give him no drawbacks to him using those rings at all.

[Dr. Crusher]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Ah well, confound 06 and all that.

[Blue Blood]

Oh yeah, another thing; I was annoyed by how as a result of the realism in 06, Robotnik's robots felt more like G.U.N. robots, doubly so since Truck and Commander aside I'm not much of a G.U.N. fan. Even White Acropolis felt more like Prison Island than it did anything Eggmany.

The robots in '06 lacked all the character of Eggman's usual mechs, even the animal based ones. And there were quite a few- New Buzz Bomber, new Rhino Tank, new Crabmeat and the Egg Cerebus. One of them was in fact just a GUN bot with a new lick of paint.

[Johnny Boy]

One thing I hate is seeing fanfics that make Sonic stalk/abuse Amy just so that she could be shipped with Shadow. It's fine that you support a certain couple but making demonizing another character is not the way you should do it. That's just pure "Die For Our Ship" behavior and I hate that.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I actually liked the robots in Sonic 06. Granted, they were more G.U.N.-like than his usual robots, and I wouldn't mind it if those designs were transferred over to GUN instead of Eggman. Or they could be used in conjunction with his more quirky robots, having quirky robots be sent after you early in the game, and the more serious looking baddies being deployed next to them the further you progress in the game to show how much Eggman really wants you stopped.

Look, I just think you should have worded yourself a little better, that's all. Saying outright about things like certain traits being flaws or otherwise can often lead to disaster in many instances. I was joking the first time (come on, I'm not that bad), but at the same time I don't think it's entirely fair on those who get harassed for it in real life, and I don't think they'd like a reminder on how they're looked at by the outside (not me though, I'm used to it, even if it's annoying).

I'm not trying to be picky or personal or anything, I just thought it could give the wrong sort of message. Please be a little more considerate with how you word things in the future, that's all I'm asking.

You were almost asking for a verbal beatdown there.

But I don't see how you can get the wrong message unless you cut off the rest of the paragraph that goes into detail over the good and bad sides of being an introvert. It's not like I was saying being an introvert sucks or that being introverted is a bad thing from the get go with nothing good being said about it.

At any rate, I digress.

[Dr. Crusher]

It's not that Robotnik can't have more serious robots for the endgame, I'm fine with that. The problem is that they should still look like, well, Robotnik robots, so you can go "Yeah, I can tell Eggman made that". The only time I'd be okay with Young Ivo Cosplaying Gerald's robots is if he was deliberately making un-Eggmany robots for whatever reason.

The robots in '06 lacked all the character of Eggman's usual mechs, even the animal based ones. And there were quite a few- New Buzz Bomber, new Rhino Tank, new Crabmeat and the Egg Cerebus. One of them was in fact just a GUN bot with a new lick of paint.

That explains a lot. I couldn't even tell what was meant to be Crabmeat or Buzz Bomber or whoever else since they all looked so generic.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Blue Blood]

That explains a lot. I couldn't even tell what was meant to be Crabmeat or Buzz Bomber or whoever else since they all looked so generic.

They may or may not be Crabmeat and whathaveyou, but the they're starkly similar in design. A red crab that throws glowing red orbs and a wasp-like enemy that shoots lasers. I'd guess it was one of the ways they tried to make Sonic more mature and 'realistic' and still keep it the same, just like with Eggman's design.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Multikaris]

Those would fit right in SATAM.

[Diogenes]

Or they could be used in conjunction with his more quirky robots, having quirky robots be sent after you early in the game, and the more serious looking baddies being deployed next to them the further you progress in the game to show how much Eggman really wants you stopped.

I'd rather he do this with robots that don't look boring. I don't see why his elite troops would be any less strange and quirky than the common 'bots.

[Dr. Homem]

I'd rather he do this with robots that don't look boring. I don't see why his elite troops would be any less strange and quirky than the common 'bots.

I don't really see a problem with that. If he sees you're smashing through his robots, he could very well make a new model that focuses less on being the way he likes (quirky) and more on killing Sonic.

Example: first there are these guys

And later these guys come.

Granted, they don't have to look 2006-serious. But I see no problem with them being a little less strange.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Homem

[Diogenes]

And later these guys come.

But I hate these guys. For several reasons, but looking like boring plasticy gundam ripoffs is one of them.

[Dr. Homem]

But I hate these guys. For several reasons, but looking like boring plasticy gundam ripoffs is one of them.

Yeah, so do I. But they illustrate the example of passing to quirky to less-quirky.

[Blue Blood]

I don't see anything wrong with Eggman pulling out the bigger guns later on the in game. Just keep them all quirky, and fitting of his normal style.

I liked Colours' approach- every stage has it's own unique enemies. But every stage also has Egg Pawns, and they vary by stage. They could just put the more deadly Egg Pawns late on. Like the wrench-throwing ones from Generations' Planet Wisp.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Dr. Homem]

I don't see anything wrong with Eggman pulling out the bigger guns later on the in game. Just keep them all quirky, and fitting of his normal style.

Precisely. A good example is the guy with the big hammer in Heroes. Looks more intimidating, and (in a way) not as odd as an Egg Pawn, but still looks quite quirky.

[Multikaris]

I don't really see a problem with that. If he sees you're smashing through his robots, he could very well make a new model that focuses less on being the way he likes (quirky) and more on killing Sonic.

Example: first there are these guys

And later these guys come.

Granted, they don't have to look 2006-serious. But I see no problem with them being a little less strange.

And then after that, they start looking like these:

Edited November 19, 2012 by miru

[Dr. Crusher]

Actually, I think the Badniks in Death Egg Zone in S3&K - Chainspike and Spikebonker - are a good subtle example. Aside from one or two, Badniks are usually based on animals or objects, yet those two were a little more abstract than your typical Caterkiller or Orbinaut.

[Dr. Homem]

And then after that, they start looking like these:

-snip-

I hope that's sarcasm.

[Multikaris]

I hope that's sarcasm.

Yes it is.

[Spin Attaxx]

I think it would've been better if Silver's gameplay had been it's own, non-Sonic related IP, and if the gameplay were (obviously) refined and polished.

So, fanfics about Eggman being cheaply killed for the sake of it... bleh.

For that matter, fanfics with anyone killed off for the sake of it. I once read this fanfic on DeviantART called "Holding it Together", featuring a character named Neon the Hedgehog (sounds like he'd be one of those OCs), a childhood friend of Blaze's (someone obviously never played Rush). As for Blaze herself? A bunch of wolves (of course) set a bomb off on her. They even give her a funeral, like the author was proud of killing her off in an asinine way (or even at all).

And later these guys come.

Wasn't there concept art for Sonic Xtreme featuring a Mecha Sonic looking just like this (yeah, Mecha Sonic. Red. Looking nothing like Sonic.)?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'd rather he do this with robots that don't look boring. I don't see why his elite troops would be any less strange and quirky than the common 'bots.

Well I never implied they be uninteresting given that he makes awesome machines like the Egg Dragoon that are not anywhere near as quirky as his usual mechs while still having that look as if Eggman made it. Or how about the E-series of robots? Robotic doppelgangers like Metal Sonic?

Of course, that depends on what you define as "quirky".

It would be like the difference between the Egg Emperor from Sonic Heroes looking like a twisted version of his Egg Pawn models and that of the Egg Viper from SA1 that has absolutely no goofy elements that you would find in most of his other machines. One's goofy but still a threat, the other is completely serious looking and deadly, and yet you can still identify them as something Eggman made. No reason we can't extend that to his foot soldiers.

Edited November 19, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Crackerss]

Speaking of serious threats (?), one thing that has always bothered me are the people who throw a fit over the name "Eggman" because it doesn't sound serious enough, and that Robotnik wasn't a goofball in the original games.

Yeah, that's a serious villain if I ever saw one.

[Spin Attaxx]

... that sprite makes it look like a black creature swallowed Eggman from the waist down and sprouted little legs and is running from the fuzz for illegal eating.