Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Wraith]

Speaking of Silver, why does nobody but me want him to go back to being a knight Templar again?

Because it doesn't fit his character.

Plus he was never that in the first place.

Plus he's a stupid 13 year old kid in reality.

[Blue Blood]

What truly doomed Chronicles, though, was the removal of the planned Metal Sonic boss fight mentioned in an early Nintendo Power review.

I don't remember this at all. You got a source?

[WarioBone]

Blargh, laying around here somewhere, I'm sure, but I really don't want to go through 50+ issues of Nintendo Power. I'll take a quick look.

[Kuzu]

There was a Metal fight in Chronicles?

[WarioBone]

There was a Metal fight in Chronicles?

Was going to be.

I know it's around here somewhere...

EDIT: So apparently I've thrown out RANDOM issues of Nintendo Power, because I have stuff as old as the Shadow the Hedgehog cover issue and as new as Pikmin 3, with random things missing in between. :V

There was literally only one line about it, like, "...such as a boss fight with Metal Sonic."

Edited November 20, 2012 by Wario wants a damn WiiU

[Diogenes]

First off this is generalizing to the nth degree, not every fancharacter based on an existing character is automatically some shitty caricature or "Mephiles girlfriend".

I have trouble believing that. Basing a fan character directly on an existing character is pretty much an express lane to shit town.

And it's not like Mephiles` form is some arbitrary design choice, it's a story related plot point, and it connects Mephiles to Shadow.

Unfortunately it's as if they didn't consider the context in which they were doing it, and they ended up making an evil doppelganger of the formerly evil doppelganger of the main character. If you look at it from a perspective outside of Shadow's story, it's just ridiculous.

I did say his execution was poor, but the saying that a fan character based on an existing species is automatically a shitty recolor that deserves to hated is just being petty.

The guy has no positive qualities, and he's a recolor. He's pretty deserving of hatred.

Who's to say Silver wasn't desperate for a way to fix his future? If some guy came up to me and told me I had a chance to fix my fucked up world, I'd probably ignore appearances too.

Then maybe you're kinda gullible. The whole thing could've been more believable if Silver had shown some amount of hesitation, and/or if Mephy didn't have the equivalent of a giant neon sign saying "VILLAIN! BAD GUY!" pointing to him. But Silver rushes right into killing some guy just because a dude with no mouth and monster eyes suddenly showed up and said it'd work.

Just like how people love Robotnik for his eccentric personality, people are going to love something about a character they like too. Yes, Mephiles is a moron, but that doesn't automatically mean everyone has to hate him with the same amount of passion that you do, just like how Eggman has his faults too. And this really boils down to you getting upset over an opinion that opposes yours.

Great, the "but opinions!" argument. If that's all you've got, why bother with this?

Yes, Mephiles could have interacted with Sonic more and that made his death feel cheap but, how is a villain supposed to establish himself if he isn't allowed to touch the main hero? Sounds like the setup for a pretty shitty villain if he's barred from even harming Sonic.

No one's saying he can't pose a threat. But you need to build up a context for it, not just have the cool new villain run in, shank Sonic effortlessly, and cackle like a stereotypical villain.

Neither does Metal Sonic, but apparently he's better suited to kill Sonic despite doing less effective villainy than Mephiles.

Mephiles only succeeds because the story contrives it to happen. It doesn't happen as a natural consequence of his actions; aside from setting Silver on his mission the guy does basically nothing the whole game besides taunt Shadow, then gets Sonic with the cheapest, most anticlimactic shot I've ever seen. And this isn't even about which villain is more effective in the first place; what matters is the relationship between the killer and the killee, and Mephy and Sonic have literally none.

[Blue Blood]

Was going to be.

I know it's around here somewhere...

EDIT: So apparently I've thrown out RANDOM issues of Nintendo Power, because I have stuff as old as the Shadow the Hedgehog cover issue and as new as Pikmin 3, with random things missing in between. :V

There was literally only one line about it, like, "...such as a boss fight with Metal Sonic."

http://www.sonicscene.net/media/scans/magazine/chronicles/

That should help.

[Dr. Crusher]

First off this is generalizing to the nth degree, not every fancharacter based on an existing character is automatically some shitty caricature or "Mephiles girlfriend". And it's not like Mephiles` form is some arbitrary design choice, it's a story related plot point, and it connects Mephiles to Shadow. Secondly, the entire concept of Mephiles is no more of a "some shitty fancharacter" than Shadow was to Sonic, or Wario is to Mario, or Venom to Spider-man. I did say his execution was poor, but the saying that a fan character based on an existing species is automatically a shitty recolor that deserves to hated is just being petty.

...Hence why I mentioned the good ones being overshadowed. I said there were good ones, but no one pays attention to them because the bad ones are getting all the fame and glory. And Mephiles' lookalike form being important to the story doesn't count for anything since it's already a shit story to begin with, and they could have very easily made a better plot point that didn't involve him looking like Fridge Shadow.

And Mephiles being based on Shadow - who already served as an Anti-Sonic back in SA2 - is like a character russian doll effect, like if someone made an evil clone of Shadow Mario, it's just redundant.

Who's to say Silver wasn't desperate for a way to fix his future? If some guy came up to me and told me I had a chance to fix my fucked up world, I'd probably ignore appearances too.

There's desperation, and then there's complete and utter idiocy. There's choosing to look past first judgements, and then there's just being blind. There's "I'm willing to look past your initial appearance and trust you" and then there's "I'm going to completely ignore your mysterious and slightly sinister nature and do absolutely anything you ask". And so on and so forth, you get the idea.

And even if you did excuse that, surely the likes of Mephiles' Iblis-like eyes would have clued him in that he wasn't trustworthy. There's a limit you can go before you transcend normal stupidity and go into full-on incomprehensible territory.

I did say he's just as shit as everything else in 06, did I not.

I meant in general. There are many others out there who view Mephiles as a diamond in the 06 rough, which of course grinds my gears a bit since he happens to be my least favourite Sonic character of all. It's not being petty, because if I was being that, I'd be getting on their cases on it endlessly, when in reality I'm merely expressing my disagreement with it.

Just like how people love Robotnik for his eccentric personality, people are going to love something about a character they like too. Yes, Mephiles is a moron, but that doesn't automatically mean everyone has to hate him with the same amount of passion that you do, just like how Eggman has his faults too. And this really boils down to you getting upset over an opinion that opposes yours.

I'm not actually getting upset over their opinions, that's just silly. I'm not the kind of person who goes to fanclubs of characters I dislike only to poke them repeatedly with a pencil. And I didn't say that the world is about me and that everyone should think like me, I never have and I never would. I'm merely expressing something that's a pet peeve of mine, which - as you know - is the whole point of this very thread. It is something that I get a little tired of, but that doesn't mean I have some sort of legitimate ill will for the actual people who like him, just like how I'm perfectly okay with those who don't like Robotnik as much as I do.

Yes, Mephiles could have interacted with Sonic more and that made his death feel cheap but, how is a villain supposed to establish himself if he isn't allowed to touch the main hero? Sounds like the setup for a pretty shitty villain if he's barred from even harming Sonic.

No, no, no. That's not what I said. I didn't say Sonic was absolutely unbustable and that no one could touch him, he can get hurt like anyone else. What I said was that someone who is the main character of a franchise should not be treated like a typical redshirt, let alone outright killed in such a disrespectful way to him as a character and as a series. Merlina beating up Sonic when he refuses to back down is fine. Bowser using the Star Rod on Mario or Grodus striking lightning down repeatedly at Mario when he doesn't want to harm Peach is fine. Mephiles killing Sonic with something as simple and mundane as a quick laser is not, and it undermines both Sonic and all his heroics as well as all the other villains he's faced, Robotnik or otherwise.

Neither does Metal Sonic, but apparently he's better suited to kill Sonic despite doing less effective villainy than Mephiles.

While I did use Metal Sonic as an example, that was only because he's the second biggest villain after Robotnik. I didn't say he was any better, since I do believe the fanbase overrates him (and I always liked Mecha Sonic MKII's design more anyway). I was mainly thinking of the OVA version of him.

EDIT: Balls, you win this round, Dio.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[WarioBone]

http://www.sonicscen...ine/chronicles/

That should help.

wat the fak

where do i get these nonfacts

EDIT: My pet peeve is that I remember things that don't exist.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Wario wants a damn WiiU

[Kuzu]

I have trouble believing that. Basing a fan character directly on an existing character is pretty much an express lane to shit town.

Guess every single character based on an existing character in existence is automatically shit then according to this logic.

Unfortunately it's as if they didn't consider the context in which they were doing it, and they ended up making an evil doppelganger of the formerly evil doppelganger of the main character. If you look at it from a perspective outside of Shadow's story, it's just ridiculous.

But that's not the point, the point is there IS an explanation for it, it doesn't matter how ridiculous it is, and it's not just a random idea that just showed up in the game.

The guy has no positive qualities

Yes, the villain who wants to destroy everything doesn't have an positive traits, because I need to feel sympathy for him.

,

and he's a recolor.

So's Shadow.

He's pretty deserving of hatred.

Two sentences don't tell me why I should hate a character.

The whole thing could've been more believable if Silver had shown some amount of hesitation, and/or if Mephy didn't have the equivalent of a giant neon sign saying "VILLAIN! BAD GUY!" pointing to him. But Silver rushes right into killing some guy just because a dude with no mouth and monster eyes suddenly showed up and said it'd work.

Apparently you missed the part when I said it could have been handled better.

Great, the "but opinions!" argument. If that's all you've got, why bother with this?

Cute, now read the part of the post that isn't the last sentence.

No one's saying he can't pose a threat. But you need to build up a context for it, not just have the cool new villain run in, shank Sonic effortlessly, and cackle like a stereotypical villain.

OK true, but had their been proper context, I still wouldn't see the problem with Mephiles offing Sonic, or at the very least being pretty damn close too.

Mephiles only succeeds because the story contrives it to happen. It doesn't happen as a natural consequence of his actions; aside from setting Silver on his mission the guy does basically nothing the whole game besides taunt Shadow, then gets Sonic with the cheapest, most anticlimactic shot I've ever seen. And this isn't even about which villain is more effective in the first place; what matters is the relationship between the killer and the killee, and Mephy and Sonic have literally none.

Fair enough. Now let's get into our imagination boxes, and pretend that 06 isn't a terribly written game. I know it's hard, but let's try. So, with that said,and 06 was at the very least a competently told story, then what pray tell is the problem with a character like Mephiles aside from the obvious hate that everyone seems to have.

Crusher, I will get to you in a second.

[Diogenes]

Guess every single character based on an existing character in existence is automatically shit then according to this logic.

It's pretty fuckin' high odds, dude. If you have to rip off other people's ideas, you probably don't have anything worth saying.

But that's not the point, the point is there IS an explanation for it, it doesn't matter how ridiculous it is, and it's not just a random idea that just showed up in the game.

No, it really, really does matter if it's ridiculous. A validly logical answer is not enough to save an idea that is ridiculous in the larger context.

Yes, the villain who wants to destroy everything doesn't have an positive traits, because I need to feel sympathy for him.

I had considered clarifying my statement, but I had figured you were smart enough to figure it out on your own. So let me be more clear: I don't mean "positive traits" in the sense of being a nice person, I mean "positive traits" in the sense of being an interesting character.

And it's usually a good thing for a villain to have some sympathetic qualities anyway. If there's literally nothing to humanize them, they basically stop being characters and become bland walls of generic evil.

So's Shadow.

Yes. And I am not particularly a fan of Shadow. And making a recolor, of a recolor, is doubly bad. Note also that Shadow has occasionally had positive qualities, while Mephy has not.

Two sentences don't tell me why I should hate a character.

His design is terrible, his plan is terrible, he doesn't do anything interesting in the entire game, he has no character beyond "generic villain", they try to play him as manipulative in spite of the fact that, again, his plan is terrible and he basically does nothing, he only succeeds because the story is contrived in his favor, he kills Sonic in the most boring and anticlimactic way possible...

Now give me even one reason why I shouldn't hate him.

Apparently you missed the part when I said it could have been handled better.

Great, so concede the point and stop defending this shit.

Cute, now read the part of the post that isn't the last sentence.

If there's anything to it beyond "some people like mephiles for reasons therefore shut up because opinions!" then you did a piss poor job of arguing it.

OK true, but had their been proper context, I still wouldn't see the problem with Mephiles offing Sonic, or at the very least being pretty damn close too.

It's pretty damn hard to build up the proper context for the main character's death in just the span of one game in a long-running series like this. It is something that needs to be treated with the utmost respect, otherwise it feels unfair; it just isn't compelling or moving to have a guy who's fought through so much get offed by some punk who only just showed up. Just getting beaten up is a different matter, though, and I don't think anyone would have a problem with that any more than they did with, say, Merlina in SatBK.

Fair enough. Now let's get into our imagination boxes, and pretend that 06 isn't a terribly written game. I know it's hard, but let's try. So, with that said,and 06 was at the very least a competently told story, then what pray tell is the problem with a character like Mephiles aside from the obvious hate that everyone seems to have.

Because he's boring, because his character design is ridiculous, because he's basically nothing but a shallow cliche...and if you're going to say they'd fix all that, don't bother, because we'd no longer be talking about Mephiles anymore.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Guess every single character based on an existing character in existence is automatically shit then according to this logic.

It's pretty fuckin' high odds, dude. If you have to rip off other people's ideas, you probably don't have anything worth saying.

Uh...Isn't there a difference between flat out ripping off something and basing ideas off a previous idea?

It's not so much a rip off of Sonic being capable of super speed like dozens of characters before him, but it is quite a rip off for one character to take on the exact appearance of another character but with nothing more than a change of color scheme?

Do I even want to jump into this?

[Kuzu]

It's pretty fuckin' high odds, dude. If you have to rip off other people's ideas, you probably don't have anything worth saying.

No, it really, really does matter if it's ridiculous. A validly logical answer is not enough to save an idea that is ridiculous in the larger context.

I had considered clarifying my statement, but I had figured you were smart enough to figure it out on your own. So let me be more clear: I don't mean "positive traits" in the sense of being a nice person, I mean "positive traits" in the sense of being an interesting character.

And it's usually a good thing for a villain to have some sympathetic qualities anyway. If there's literally nothing to humanize them, they basically stop being characters and become bland walls of generic evil.

Yes. And I am not particularly a fan of Shadow. And making a recolor, of a recolor, is doubly bad. Note also that Shadow has occasionally had positive qualities, while Mephy has not.

His design is terrible, his plan is terrible, he doesn't do anything interesting in the entire game, he has no character beyond "generic villain", they try to play him as manipulative in spite of the fact that, again, his plan is terrible and he basically does nothing, he only succeeds because the story is contrived in his favor, he kills Sonic in the most boring and anticlimactic way possible...

Now give me even one reason why I shouldn't hate him.

Great, so concede the point and stop defending this shit.

If there's anything to it beyond "some people like mephiles for reasons therefore shut up because opinions!" then you did a piss poor job of arguing it.

It's pretty damn hard to build up the proper context for the main character's death in just the span of one game in a long-running series like this. It is something that needs to be treated with the utmost respect, otherwise it feels unfair; it just isn't compelling or moving to have a guy who's fought through so much get offed by some punk who only just showed up. Just getting beaten up is a different matter, though, and I don't think anyone would have a problem with that any more than they did with, say, Merlina in SatBK.

Because he's boring, because his character design is ridiculous, because he's basically nothing but a shallow cliche...and if you're going to say they'd fix all that, don't bother, because we'd no longer be talking about Mephiles anymore.

...Hence why I mentioned the good ones being overshadowed. I said there were good ones, but no one pays attention to them because the bad ones are getting all the fame and glory. And Mephiles' lookalike form being important to the story doesn't count for anything since it's already a shit story to begin with, and they could have very easily made a better plot point that didn't involve him looking like Fridge Shadow.

And Mephiles being based on Shadow - who already served as an Anti-Sonic back in SA2 - is like a character russian doll effect, like if someone made an evil clone of Shadow Mario, it's just redundant.

There's desperation, and then there's complete and utter idiocy. There's choosing to look past first judgements, and then there's just being blind. There's "I'm willing to look past your initial appearance and trust you" and then there's "I'm going to completely ignore your mysterious and slightly sinister nature and do absolutely anything you ask". And so on and so forth, you get the idea.

And even if you did excuse that, surely the likes of Mephiles' Iblis-like eyes would have clued him in that he wasn't trustworthy. There's a limit you can go before you transcend normal stupidity and go into full-on incomprehensible territory.

I meant in general. There are many others out there who view Mephiles as a diamond in the 06 rough, which of course grinds my gears a bit since he happens to be my least favourite Sonic character of all. It's not being petty, because if I was being that, I'd be getting on their cases on it endlessly, when in reality I'm merely expressing my disagreement with it.

I'm not actually getting upset over their opinions, that's just silly. I'm not the kind of person who goes to fanclubs of characters I dislike only to poke them repeatedly with a pencil. And I didn't say that the world is about me and that everyone should think like me, I never have and I never would. I'm merely expressing something that's a pet peeve of mine, which - as you know - is the whole point of this very thread. It is something that I get a little tired of, but that doesn't mean I have some sort of legitimate ill will for the actual people who like him, just like how I'm perfectly okay with those who don't like Robotnik as much as I do.

No, no, no. That's not what I said. I didn't say Sonic was absolutely unbustable and that no one could touch him, he can get hurt like anyone else. What I said was that someone who is the main character of a franchise should not be treated like a typical redshirt, let alone outright killed in such a disrespectful way to him as a character and as a series. Merlina beating up Sonic when he refuses to back down is fine. Bowser using the Star Rod on Mario or Grodus striking lightning down repeatedly at Mario when he doesn't want to harm Peach is fine. Mephiles killing Sonic with something as simple and mundane as a quick laser is not, and it undermines both Sonic and all his heroics as well as all the other villains he's faced, Robotnik or otherwise.

While I did use Metal Sonic as an example, that was only because he's the second biggest villain after Robotnik. I didn't say he was any better, since I do believe the fanbase overrates him (and I always liked Mecha Sonic MKII's design more anyway). I was mainly thinking of the OVA version of him.

EDIT: Balls, you win this round, Dio.

Ok, I think I should clarify before I lose my point; I like the CONCEPT of Mephiles, specifically the concept of him being such an all powerful villain that the heroes need to think outside the box in beating him. Mephiles himself is a terribly written and poorly thought out character, BUT I do like his concept and wouldn't mind it being applied to another character entirely. I'm not defending Mephiles himself, I'm defending his concept. comprende?

[Your Vest Friend]

wat the fak

where do i get these nonfacts

EDIT: My pet peeve is that I remember things that don't exist.

Well, Espio was mentioned to be in the game once in a preview. Pretend they said Metal Sonic instead and you're all set.

Edit: And don't try to call me out for remembering non-existent factoids, I have sources for this shit.

Edited November 20, 2012 by VEDJ-F

[SenEDDtor Missile]

So Mephilies killed Sonic. Big whoop. Can he do that to Super Sonic?

Your thoughts Eggman? Eggman: "Nope.avi"

So aside from the Sonic 06 conversations, a pet-peeve of mine is about Chronicles. It's a question of whether people praised the Sonic characters in the game for being well written, or just because Bioware worked on them. I'm not saying that Bioware can't make some good characters considering how they've done Mass Effect, but considering the continuity errors in Chronicles, I'm wondering if people were only saying good things about it at the time was because of Bioware name being involved on the game.

Well considering the massive backlash of the release of SWTOR, which was touted as a WoW Killer (Which is a really stupid thought process when you think about it) that occurred after people burned through the story and realized the game had no longevity beyond the stuff they already saw in other MMOs, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if people just assumed it would be amazing based on brand name alone, and then suffered a rude awakening afterwards.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Malpercio

[- Eternal Paradox -]

I have a pet peeve.

When people say that the plates on Knuckles shoes look like Lego.

Ok, so they do, but they're meant to be bolts! Metal Plated shoes with bolts because he's hardcore!

It's just so many people say it, it annoys me.

[Blue Blood]

I have a pet peeve.

When people say that the plates on Knuckles shoes look like Lego.

Ok, so they do, but they're meant to be bolts! Metal Plated shoes with bolts because he's hardcore!

It's just so many people say it, it annoys me.

Why do people say the sky is blue?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I have a pet peeve.

When people say that the plates on Knuckles shoes look like Lego.

Ok, so they do, but they're meant to be bolts! Metal Plated shoes with bolts because he's hardcore!

It's just so many people say it, it annoys me.

Well...

Where did he get the means to make those shoes?

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Well...

Where did he get the means to make those shoes?

Well, there's probably the means to on angel Island. I can imagine Knuckles trying his hand a little blacksmithing. Sewing might be difficult with those mittens though...

[Alice Twilight]

I'd like to have lego brick shoes.

[WarioBone]

I'd like to have lego brick shoes.

THEY'RE BOOOOOOOOLTS OMFG RAAAAAGE

They're totally Legos, bro. Stop lying to yourself. Speaking of Legos, Lego City: Undercover looks really good. :V

[Dr. Homem]

I'd like to have lego brick shoes.

Is this good for you?

==============

As to not derail the topic, I'll mention something: when people say Knuckles needs to be straight up evil, not a hero or even an anti-hero. Yes, some actually think that.

[WarioBone]

As to not derail the topic, I'll mention something: when people say Knuckles needs to be straight up evil, not a hero or even an anti-hero. Yes, some actually think that.

People? Don't you mean the shit-smeared subhumans that dwell on the Sega Forums?

[Spin Attaxx]

Whenever people say that Sonic is dying and that instead of being given a chance to recover, SEGA should just off him altogether. The critics say either that or they say that SEGA must nuke all of Sonic's "useless critter friends" and rename Eggman "Robotnik".

[Dr. Homem]

Whenever people say that Sonic is dying and that instead of being given a chance to recover, SEGA should just off him altogether. The critics say either that or they say that SEGA must nuke all of Sonic's "useless critter friends" and rename Eggman "Robotnik".

That's why I hate game critics. They are not gamers, they are journalists whose opinion doesn't matter.