Animation in the Sonic Series

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Hi there. Paradox here.

I'm an bit of an animation enhusiast. I'm a big fan of stop-motion mainly, but mainly all forms get me interested.

This topic is for discussing how scenes in the series are animated. Comparisons would be good also.

Let me explain...

Watch this on Mute:

Did you understand what was going on? Could you see how the characters were feeling?

Now how about this? (Remember mute):

Here's some questions for you, to help you compare:

1) When Tails arrived at the picnic, how would you say he was feeling? (Generations)

2) When Sonic was talking to Elise(After the intro), what sort of thing would you image him to be saying? (Sonic 06)

3) When Elise was first kidnapped by Eggman, could you tell how he was feeling about it? (Sonic 06)

4) When Sonic's chilidog was lost, how do you think he felt about it? (Generations)

These are all things to talk about. What's your favorite cutscene in the series? Which scenes are poorly animated? Which are well animated?

Just remember to justify your points. It's all very well saying "06 is badly animated" - but why is it so?

For example "Sonic 06 is poorly animated, mainly because the characters move in an unrealistic and uncharactistic manner. They show very little expression: Sonic shows virtually the same expression when elise is kiddnapped to when he is meets Tails to when he rescued by Amy."

Okay, then, let's hear you views on the animation in the sonic series!

Edited June 29, 2012 by Paradox

[Remy]

Just posting to say I deleted the duplicate of this topic.

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Just posting to say I deleted the duplicate of this topic.

Oh, thanks. Didn't know there was one.

Does anyone know how I can fix the video Embed?

[Blue Blood]

Oh, thanks. Didn't know there was one.

Does anyone know how I can fix the video Embed?

I said this in the other topic, but it got deleted. Just post the plain URL, as is written below. No tags, just the URL straight into the text box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZQbWkaxBNk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei_8eObKahU

You can also use the shorter "youtu.be" addresses.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Naysu]

cool topic, ive always loved watching the cutscenes in the sonic series, i think because I do animation myself i pay more attention to detail like yourself. As a kid I used to watch the Sonic Heroes cutscenes all the time, but I feel like although their mouths were very smoothly animated, their body language and arm movements (like mentioned in 06) seem to not match, or just in general look like they are moving around for no apparent reason.

If i was to mention a scene I really thought was aniamted well, its hard to remember all that I've seen, but I would say for graphical look: ---> (Sonic atBK)

this is the scene in the black knight where sonic transformed, even though the character doesnt really do anythign here, its always stuck in my mind as a very awesome clip.

as for BADLY acted, id say this one : ---->(sonic riders)

watching this mute it becomes clear that the characters have VERY little movement in their faces to act on the dramatic scenes that were happening in front of them.

For GOOD character acting, id say probably this one for me: ---> (sonic riders zero gravity)

although not perfect, MUCH better than the previous game, as soon as the action starts, all characters behave as expected for their character, and the facial expressions as a whole are much more dynamic. especially considering it looks like they used the same models for this one too. Edited June 28, 2012 by Naysu

[- Eternal Paradox -]

@Blue Blood - Thanks.

Naysu - Nice choices. I agree, that transformation has great, and has a lot of body lanuage going for it. At first, sonic's a bit breathless, bit surprised, then he gets more conifdent, gets powered up, and you get a sense he's ready to take down his foe.

With the Riders series, it's not quite as poorly animated as Sonic 06, but it's not quite as expressive as it could be. Tails in the GCI scenes has virtually no expression at all. His incorrect mouth placement doesn't really help.

One thing I've noticed is that in the Sonic series, they animate much the character's faces, especially the eyes/brow. Which is a shame, because most of a character's expression comes from the eyes...

[Naysu]

One thing I've noticed is that in the Sonic series, they animate much the character's faces, especially the eyes/brow. Which is a shame, because most of a character's expression comes from the eyes...

agreed. its a shame because they are also designed with those huge eyes and brows but never really use them...

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Often, some of the "static" storyboard style animations have a lot more character, as opposed to the "moving", fully animated scenes.

Take a look at some of the cutscene sprites from Free Riders.

http://sonic.wikia.c...Artwork_Gallery

Sonic eye's are actually showing different emotions for once!

@Alexander - I actually like the Adventure 2 animation style, but a can agree with you - it is bit awkward, and suffers from a lot of the animation problems the series has.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Paradox

[Milo]

I dunno which was worse, 06 or SA1. Everytime I see Sonic talk, it looks like his face is having a seizure. >_<

The in-game cutscenes have had a huge leap in quality from 06 to Unleashed.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Zinos

[Gatestormer]

I dunno which was worse, 06 or SA1. Everytime I see Sonic talk, it looks like his face is having a seizure. >_<

The in-game cutscenes have had a huge leap in quality from 06 to Unleashed.

I love the animation in the games these days, it's very well done by obviously very skilled animators, though it's a shame that Generations cut some corners on the graphics, Unleashed has the upper hand on it's finesse as a result. I'm really looking forward to seeing what advancements the next generation of consoles will bring us.

And watching that video just makes me realise how much I miss having a big story in a Sonic game D:

Edited June 28, 2012 by ENVY

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Zinos - I agree. The qualtiy of the animation in Unleashed is way better compared to most of the other series entries, especially Chip. Chip is a lovely expressive character! He has a lot of nice mime scenes, and because he's not grounded, he has a lot of freedom for body langauge. The werehog also has a few nice eye movements, but less than I'd like...

[Vertekins]

Does this topic go for the depiction of character expressions as well as the quality of animation?

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Does this topic go for the depiction of character expressions as well as the quality of animation?

[Vertekins]

Yep, sure! Personally, I think the character's expressions add to the quality of the animation.

Cool!

I ask this because I thought that SatSR had some really great and expressive...ahem, expressions despite most of it's cutscenes having minimal animation. As I'm such a fangirl and because of the reason I just stated, I'll start with this game These are, IMO, really good expressions in accordance to the script and character actions/behaviour;

1 and 2 - "Why is this guy clutching at straws?" This expression puts across Sonic's incredulity at Erazor's vain attempts to avoid his fate fantastically and I find it really awesome because it does this so well. Eyes closed and a disbelieving shake of the head, visibly sighing at the same time.

3 - "What the heck is this thing?" Surprised curiosity at what exactly is the orb-thing that the Ifrit left behind. Eyes focused on the thing and mouth slightly open in wonderment.

4 - "Hmph" Is he uncaring because Shahryar looks like Eggman, therefore giving rise to some weird kind of distrust/dislike because of physical resemblence or does he just dislike Shahryar because of his pomposity? In any case, this expression seems to put across Sonic's distate of Sharyar extremely well, as if he's grudgingly saving him.

5 - "My speed overcomes all barriers" A rather smug and boastful expression. Puts across Sonic's lack of concern for his curse because he has confidence in his speed.

6 - "What? How can this happen?" Sonic's shocked quizzicalness at why and how the Arabian Night's text is disappearing. You can quizzicalness in his hands and see concern in his eyes and mouth as well.

7 - "I hate being sick" Quills are more lax than usual and hang down a bit more and his ears are sideways as if really feeling under the weather. Only one eye halfway open and small but agape mouth as if annoyed by sneezing/a runny nose, hence the wish for hankies.

8 - "I have the upper hand!" Accompanied by a small laugh that strengthens this notion. He looks pretty triumphant here because he's got the means to put Erazor in his place and therefore has the upper hand and is happy about this.

9 - Distraught I honestly believe that Sonic is trying hard to not cry here. He's gritting his teeth and there's still a very shocked quality to his eyes as if not quite getting to grips with Shahra's defense of him and sacrifice.

10 - Disgust Obviously finds Erazor's new form repulsive. Eyes narrowed as if he can't quite believe what he's seeing as well and mouth open and frozen as if he's about to say "Daaammmnnn"

11 - "Where did you get this?" In this one, it's like he is quizzical about what exactly Shahra is giving him because it's so indistinct and mysterious as well as mystified by the apparent gravity of it because this unassuming object is their last hope if they cannot deal with Erazor with other methods.

12 - Sarcastic deadpan snarkiness One eye open, the other half closed and a smug kind of tone exemplified by the small smile and hand near face. It's almost as if he's trolling Sinbad XD

I don't know if I should do Unleashed next or Night of the Werehog. NOTW has the benefit of more variation because the animators knew how to use Sonic's brows expressively.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Verte

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Verte - Nice! I like what you did there. I was thinking of doing one of those myself, only using expressions from the Sonic series in general.

I might do one for just Riders though... that had some nice, animae style expressions, that really fit the style of the game...

I find it somewhat ironic that whenever sonic is shown in a static storyboard style (SATSR, SATBK, SFR), he becomes so much more expressive, and yet when he's fully animated, he becomes somewhat less so. Shouldn't it be the other way around.

Marza (animation INC) know what they're doing though. Seems to me that the animators SEGA contract out are better at it than the ones they use in game...

[Soniman]

Dat sum quality animation.

I think new better, given how bad looking the in-game models are, which is why none of the in-game cutscenes like this last for more than 30 seconds.

[Kimb]

Marza (animation INC) know what they're doing though. Seems to me that the animators SEGA contract out are better at it than the ones they use in game...

Well,that's cus Marza Animation studio only makes the pre-rendered/cinematic stuff for trailers,''special HQ cutscenes''(like the grand Unleashed intro/Dark Gaia appears scene,etc)and shorts like NoTW(which alone took like a year to make according to an interview),

while Sonic Team does all the rest of the cutscenes In-engine,meaning they render in real-time using the game's engine and they use the existing game assets and models.

So you can't really compare the two,since in-engine animations(which are limited) will obviously always have a disadvantage to the cinematic cutscenes(which can do all those crazy explosions/extreme environment details/more expressive gestures and well ...expressions/actions/squash and stretch effects etc).

But regarding character in-game animations,I think Sonic Team is currently doing an awesome job!

As of Unleashed specifically.Aside from nomal Sonic's ones,I just loved the stylish werehog combo moves animations.(the 360/ps3 version since the other 2 are watered down)

The fluid and unclunky movements really add liveliness to the character.

[Naysu]

while we're on the subject of expressions, i think the weirdest one ive ever seen in a cutscene was from knuckles in Sonic riders, when Tails is blabbering on about some tech'y stuff and knux's eyes spin in their sockets haha.. made me laugh although a little weird..

heres the link (CUT TO 5:10)

Edited June 28, 2012 by Naysu

[Phos]

Often, some of the "static" storyboard style animations have a lot more character, as opposed to the "moving", fully animated scenes.

Take a look at some of the cutscene sprites from Free Riders.

http://sonic.wikia.c...Artwork_Gallery

Sonic eye's are actually showing different emotions for once!

@Alexander - I actually like the Adventure 2 animation style, but a can agree with you - it is bit awkward, and suffers from a lot of the animation problems the series has.

Oh my that doesn't look quite right...

And I don't get your affection for the SA2 cut scenes, There's no weight or personality to any of their motions, and Eggman's face rises upwards every time he opens his mouth for some reason. Really a bit of a mess that within this franchise was upstaged only by, well, SA1.

Funny thing about SA1, that game didn't really have facial animation, they just took the in game expressions and flipped between them to get lip flapping. Funny thing about that is that SA1's in game animations were actually pretty good, apart from when it kind of worked against itself when Sonic would frequently get distracted by floating animals.

[Gabz Girl]

Post-Sonic 06 cutscenes animations look much better than they did before, especially in Sonic Unleashed where the cutscenes were quite a bit longer than Colours and (especially) Generations. I do find it ironic that illustrated stills in cutscenes like Secret Rings can convey more emotion than a real time one.

My main issue with Sonic 06's cutscenes was the look of Elise and the other humans. It was too much Uncanny Valley material for me, and they barely had any proper facial expressions. It was a step in the right direction for SEGA to go with the cartoony humans in Sonic Unleashed. Also, I think that awkward puppet-on-a-string like motion that the characters have in SA2 and Sonic 06 is supposed to be motion capture. It's been used in many videogames that were released after SA1, but it does make the characters look very silly indeed.

Though SA1's cutscenes were ridiculous beyond belief, the game came out in 1998 so I forgive the cutscenes for looking that way, huge gaping mouths and all. =P

Edited June 29, 2012 by Gabz Girl

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Naysu - I think his spinning eyes are supposed to show him losing it... Bit like a steam cloud from the ears, or a burst vein. But true, it is a bit odd, but it fits with the style of the game. You'd never get away with it in Unleashed...

Kimb - Well, true, you're right. A professional animation company's obivously going to better at animating than a company dedicated to making games. I should've though of that.

Oh my that doesn't look quite right...

Edited June 29, 2012 by Paradox

[lounge]

Gabz Girl - Was it really motion capture? I would've though that'd be to expensive... mind you, it'd explain why the moved as if they were people in animal suits...

I do remember in the credits it said motion capture by Visual Concepts Entertainment so yeah. I guess that was the best the dreamcast could do or maybe with their budget. Heroes nor Shadow didn't have motion capture at least I don't think so.

[Gabz Girl]

Sonic Heroes and ShtH definitely didn't have mo cap. You can tell straight away because the movements were jerky and stiff, unlike the much smoother movements seen in SA2 and Sonic 06.

[Naysu]

something just came to mind after i mentioned knuckles' spinning eyes. Ive just been remembered of Big's gameplay in SA1 when tikal/light flies around his head and his tiny black pupils spin around to follow it. Its was the only time his pupils ever moved in that game and i remember as kid finding it very creepy. hah

[Tornado]

Oh no!

Our weapons are useless!

*moonwalks*

I feel, in terms of topics like this, that it's nice to see how far they've come.

Or maybe I just still find that hilarious after all this time. Your call.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Gilda