The Boredom Factor in today's Sonic Games

[Soniman]

This is a problem, yes yes a problem indeed.

I see this problem constantly with the recent games despite their higher quality compared to previous 3D titles. The teen usually goes like this. The game initially comes out and most people are singing the praises about how great said game is (Colors or Generations) then they beat it four hours later..

The rest of the time after that is people noticing each flaw the game has more and more before it finally settles into average/good quality usually.

Now interestingly, Unleashed is a game that has all but avoided this curse as I have never heard someone call the game boring (bad or mediocre sure, but never boring) even if you can argue it's of lesser quality than Colors and Generations from a gameplay perspective, and you can see a ton of people on this very site who prefer this game over the other two.

Now why is that? What is it about Unleashed that has many fans coming back to it? It manages to avoid a major problem later games have had and could use improvement on. Well lets take a look.

I think the main thing right away is that Unleashed has hub worlds which already lengthen the game to a considerable amount, they aren't perfect by any means since Sonic controls a little wonky in them and some aren't really designed with Sonic in mind and feel a tad congested at times, but they offered playgrounds for the player to screw around and talk to the colorful characters in each of them, it doesn't fall into the RPG trend of re-using character models, nope. This is a true cast of snowflakes right here. The Hub worlds also contain secrets to find which again, increase replayability. I know most people (myself included) want the games just to cut the fat and get to the main course, but who says we can't make it work in a way that makes the hubs a fun distraction while not blazing through the levels? It'd be better than what they did for say..Generations.

Colors is just your typical map screen that takes you to straight to the level (whether that's a good thing or not is up to you) and Generations has some half-assed hub that might as well be a level select screen, it has NPCs in the way of Sonic characters but it's kinda sad when I think that the throwaway NPCs from Unleashed feel more full of life and developed then the fucking Sonic characters, something is wrong there, seriously....

I think Sonic Unleashed is also more repayable because it has less platforming in the Sonic parts then the others (again, good or bad it's up to you), with games like Sonic Colors, you have to move carefully, as the game has a lot of platforming and puzzles in it, same goes with Generations to an extent, but Unleashed..?

Hahaha, fuck that shit. It's extremely satisfying to perfect run most of the levels in the game because it feels great to complete a level a seamless run, no stopping for platforming or anything, it all just flows naturally. Does that make the levels well designed? Well not especially, but it does make them repayable because of it.

Unleashed also has the Werehog "going" for it. Now while I don't believe stuff like this should be a thing Sonic games the Werehog at least had the decency of being competently made and function relatively well, it does increase replayability, albeit in the wrong way, but hey it's something.

Oh and Unleashed ALSO has fucking DLC! Something games like Generations needed desperately, while a lot of the DLC in Unleashed was rather cruddy, it increased replability! I think DLC is something modern Sonic games need, especially if the initial game is only 4 hours long!

So I guess the point of this topic is. How can we make our modern Sonic games something that can hold our attention for more than 2 seconds? And again, while I personally think that Colors and Generations are still more superior games than Unleashed, I still think the game had a factor in it that had people constantly coming back to it, and I want that factor to be brought back in future games without compromising their quality, any ideas?

Edited July 2, 2012 by The Noodle

[Chaos Warp]

Honestly, Modern Sonic games keep me hooked because I have fun replaying the awesome levels! While Unleashed kept me hooked better because of the things above, that`s not to say that games like Colors and Generations kept me hooked for a while. So I`m not complaining that much.

[Kuzu]

I think I might be the opposite, Unleashed has kind of turned me off with it's bullshit.

[Soniman]

I think I might be the opposite, Unleashed has kind of turned me off with it's bullshit.

Haha yeah, that's fair. Unleashed's tactics to increase replay ability are very hit or miss, it really depends on the person mostly.

Edited July 2, 2012 by The Noodle

[Linkabel]

I get what you're saying but what I'm thinking is that Sonic games are just so.....short. I think between Unleashed, Colors, and Generations it took me more time finishing Unleashed than the other two. Colors and Generations were both fun to me but I completed them in no time. So I think that it's not so much that they are boring it's just that you finish everything and have nothing to do no more.

[sonfan1984]

Honestly I haven't had any serious playtime with Unleashed in a couple of years. There are many times where I want to start a fresh file but then I also don't want to lose all the hard work I've done and re-collect all the sun and moon medals and deal with the long werehog levels again, etc. Colors and Generations is more like pick up and play experiences. I still go back to play them.

Edited July 2, 2012 by sonfan1984

[Dejablue]

I

Love

Hubworlds

I can't figure out why I just do. I love discovering stuff in them. Ooooh a secret omg a secret door I need a key omg I never noticed this passage way before.

[Salamander]

Hub worlds appeal to me too as an exercise in immersion. It makes the gameplay and the plot feel like more of a continuous whole - particularly in Unleashed, where they're so vibrant - whereas Colours and Generations's hubs were basically glorified level select screens. I do get that this is a matter of opinion, though. People who want to get straight to the levels probably will want minimal hub of any kind, and I'm sure even a glorified level select was too much padding, but for me, without them everything feels... well, as you put it: Boring. Like the game world itself is just a painted backdrop that doesn't actually matter, and the developers were only interested in the levels.

[Alluusio]

Hahaha, fuck that shit. It's extremely satisfying to perfect run most of the levels in the game because it feels great to complete a level a seamless run, no stopping for platforming or anything, it all just flows naturally. Does that make the levels well designed? Well not especially, but it does make them repayable because of it.

Now this is something I can't agree with. I don't think platforming makes speed running boring, I think it makes it interesting. It's a challenge: How to make it through this platforming section with minimal amount of platforming and as quickly as possible? Sure, it's fun to just boost through stages a few times, but after a while it kinda gets boring. I can play the same stage over and over again for hours to improve my time, and if it's mostly just straightforward boosting it gets old pretty fast. If there's more platforming, then it can hold my interest for longer. That's why I find Colors more fun to play. The Wisps are also great and really help you improve your times if you can figure out new ways to use them.

Of course not everyone is like me and spend ridiculous amounts of time speed running. But I personally found Colors less boring than Unleashed. I have played Colors for almost 200 hours while Unleashed only managed to hold my interest for about 130 hours. Neither of those will probably reach the 250 hours I played SA2B, but that game had so much content with its extra missions and Chao garden anyway that even unlocking Green Hill probably took half of that time.

[Soniman]

Now this is something I can't agree with. I don't think platforming makes speed running boring, I think it makes it interesting. It's a challenge: How to make it through this platforming section with minimal amount of platforming and as quickly as possible? Sure, it's fun to just boost through stages a few times, but after a while it kinda gets boring. I can play the same stage over and over again for hours to improve my time, and if it's mostly just straightforward boosting it gets old pretty fast. If there's more platforming, then it can hold my interest for longer. That's why I find Colors more fun to play. The Wisps are also great and really help you improve your times if you can figure out new ways to use them.

Again, I agree with this, it's just with Colors you have to do a fair amount of careful polygonal platforming where speed isn't a factor, I mean it's cool to see how one can overcome said obstacles in a speedy and efficient manner to get the best time (stages like Planet Wisp act 4 represent this ideal perfectly) . But the only parts where you can get true raw speed is when you're in 3D and even then it's nothing much to sink your teeth into.

This is where Generations excels in that regard, it manages to combine the best of both worlds for some great level design that you can discover or speed thorough, Modern Speed Highway and Seaside Hill come to mind instantly.

Edited July 2, 2012 by The Noodle

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think Unleashed's hubwords are something that should have been done in a much larger play area.

They had lots of life and character to them, but it was done in such a small space. It's not exactly the key, but it's something to consider.

[Dejablue]

They probably made them smaller because Soleanna was a giant cement block with nothing in it.

[Diogenes]

I think Sonic Unleashed is also more repayable because it has less platforming in the Sonic parts then the others (again, good or bad it's up to you), with games like Sonic Colors, you have to move carefully, as the game has a lot of platforming and puzzles in it, same goes with Generations to an extent, but Unleashed..?

*snip*

Hahaha, fuck that shit. It's extremely satisfying to perfect run most of the levels in the game because it feels great to complete a level a seamless run, no stopping for platforming or anything, it all just flows naturally. Does that make the levels well designed? Well not especially, but it does make them repayable because of it.

I don't really agree. The problem with Unleashed Day, the problem that runs through all Modern-style games, is that, once you've played through the level a few times, playing it becomes very mechanical. I can pop in Unleashed and both the levels and the proper sequence of moves to solve them are still ingrained into my muscle memory to the point where there's little difference between playing the game and watching a video of someone else playing the game.

And I think this is because the modern gameplay is designed for a sort of speedrunning mentality by default, or even exclusively. Sonic's abilities and the typical level design only really make sense for hurtling forward towards the goal at 300 MPH. There's nothing technically stopping you from playing the level in a less-than-speedrun-optimal way, but there's also basically no reason to do so; the game doesn't actively reward you except maybe with the occasional medal/red ring (which only works once) or 1 up (which is basically worthless), and the game doesn't play very well because it's not set up to accommodate much more than heading straight through the obstacle course. This is also why the slower paced portions of Colors and Generations don't hold up well; they got the message about people wanting more platforming, but they tried to squeeze it out of gameplay mechanics that aren't built for it.

What they need to do is rethink Sonic's abilities, how he moves through a level, and how he can potentially move through an area, with the aim of building something that is more robust, something that allows for multiple valid interpretations rather than just one.

[Kuzu]

Like Dio said, after you've memorised a level in the Modern gameplay, there's no real reason to go back and play it unless you're a speed runner. But for the folks that don't like breezing through levels in less than 30 seconds, it's very boring. You know everything that's coming, there's no challenge in trying to explore a stage, and the linearity gets absurd sometimes.

Unleashed is more of a chore for me to finish, and I have no real desire to play Generations or Colors again aside from maybe if If I was feeling bored. Basically, Sonic needs a rehaul, in that Sonic Team need to start thinking how the hell can they make these games replayable without padding it out with bullshit like Medal collecting or Werehogs.

The "Boost Trilogy" did their job; they got Sonic back onto the map, and helped revive the series from death. But now it's time to pack it in and move on to something else.

Edited July 2, 2012 by The Batman

[Scar]

The problem can be seen in the inherant design which is limited. Yeah, Generations was really damn good and Sonic Team deserve the credit for producing a high-quality end product. Problem is, its too limited and the mechanics an such need and overhaul for the sake of longevity.

This problem is compounded to an exponential degree, by online dissection.

Some people look too hard into every little detail and end up disappointed because the end product didn't satisfy a self-generated, pre-ordained, arbitrary definition of what a Sonic game (much less a good one) should be. We, here and elsewhere, spend more time dissecting the games and complaining about what it isn't, than we do actually enjoying the game for what it is.

That's fair enough I guess, but its going to suck out the fun.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Scar

[Kuzu]

This problem is compounded to an exponential degree, by online dissection.

Some people look too hard into every little detail and end up disappointed because the end product didn't satisfy a self-generated, pre-ordained, arbitrary definition of what a Sonic game (much less a good one) should be. We, here and elsewhere, spend more time dissecting the games and complaining about what it isn't, than we do actually enjoying the game for what it is.

That's fair enough I guess, but its going to suck out the fun.

Edited July 2, 2012 by The Batman

[Scar]

It's not like Sonic Team aren't partially to blame, they can stand to be a bit more ambtious about their products, and actually try to add some additional substance to a game, instead of doing the bare minimum and calling it finished.

It's getting a C grade when you can do A+ work. We know Sonic Team can do better, so don't blame the fans for expecting them to do so.

Yes, they can stand to be more ambitious. I said that the issue is down to Sonic Team to begin with. The problem is merely compounded by fans and their often ludicrous desires. Our pre-ordained "ideal Sonic game" ideas have no real merit to them. Who knows, our ideas could be pure genius or total shite, yet we continue to use those thoughts and ideas, as a benchmark (consious or otherwise) to compare actual Sonic games too.

Chances are, most of the time, the end result will never match up, because Sonic Team don't live in our minds.

So yes, what you say is partially true. Generations was a B/B+ at best, when we know they should be capable of a resounding A+. The only problem is, that our perception of what an A+ is, isn't at all consistant or objective.

[Salamander]

I think Diogenes's point about modern gameplay being seemingly designed for speedrunners is a cogent one. The levels don't care about story, they don't care about how you get in or out, they don't care about making the experience memorable apart from the occasional visual gimmick (i.e. a chase sequence) which you overcome by playing exactly as you would if there was no gimmick, except possibly with more limited controls. The developers seem to think you just want to get in and out as quickly as possible and not actually do anything in the level at all.

[Diogenes]

This problem is compounded to an exponential degree, by online dissection.

Some people look too hard into every little detail and end up disappointed because the end product didn't satisfy a self-generated, pre-ordained, arbitrary definition of what a Sonic game (much less a good one) should be. We, here and elsewhere, spend more time dissecting the games and complaining about what it isn't, than we do actually enjoying the game for what it is.

That's fair enough I guess, but its going to suck out the fun.

You might as well be using this junk to defend '06.

[Scar]

You might as well be using this junk to defend '06.

I suppose you could if you wanted to. You could use it to defend anything you want it to. I'd have no problem if they did to be honest, they had fun with it.

I don't know about you, but when I played 06, I just didn't have fun. It was frustration from the word go. That was the first strike for me, the rest of its technical shortcomings and atrocious storytelling did nothing but confirm to me that it was a horridly, badly made game.

Edit:

Besides, why does that matter?

What I'm saying is in many parts true. It can be seen when someone "outgrows" something that they used to like, because they've grown older, wiser and have gathered more information and/or understanding.

I used to like - no - love Sonic Heroes, now I don't. When I was younger, I didn't care about the specifics, I didn't mentally evaluate and dissect the gameplay experience. I just played it and had an immense amount of fun. Now that I'm more atuned to quality, I just can't have that much fun with the game any more.

The fact that my argument can be used to defend 06, doesn't invalidate it...in fact, I'm pretty sure it does the opposite. When you're ignorant of problems you tend to enjoy things a lot more.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Scar

[Diogenes]

Ignorance is not a good thing.

[Scar]

Ignorance is not a good thing.

Nobody ever said it was....

[Diogenes]

So let's not act like people are responsible for ruining their own fun simply because they take steps to understand the games, when it should be on Sonic Team's back to make games that stand up to some scrutiny.

[Rusty Spy]

Ignorance is not a good thing.

So is being petty

[Scar]

So let's not act like people are responsible for ruining their own fun simply because they take steps to understand the games, when it should be on Sonic Team's back to make games that stand up to some scrutiny.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.

In my original post, I clearly stated that it was part of the issue at hand. That and I made the post vague enough to also encompass peoples' massively unrealistic fantasy Sonic games. You know the type of people who say, "I want the games to feel more like SA2", or I want " a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h......x, y, z in my Sonic game" and end up disappointed when the end result doesn't exactly live up to their desires.