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Soniman

The Boredom Factor in today's Sonic Games

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The hubs with the mostly pointless NPCs are Unleashed's claim to fame? Why do these games even have hubs? The action is so broken up in these games.

I'd say the best thing Unleashed has going for it is that it doesn't have the terrible megaman bits seen in newer games.

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The hubs with the mostly pointless NPCs are Unleashed's claim to fame? Why do these games even have hubs? The action is so broken up in these games.

Partly. As for why, I'd say the hubs are like a rest area for the player and as a way for Unleashed to show it's work by having people populate them to add to the concept of it being a world wide tour. Didn't do the best with it because Sonic's actions are limited and the hubs were very small, but I don't think that's grounds for writing them off as a bad thing.

I'd say the best thing Unleashed has going for it is that it doesn't have the terrible megaman bits seen in newer games.

Terrible Megaman bits? Like what?

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sc3.jpg

~I think they are fine, for the record.

Ah thank you. It's kind of funny that now I have to say they aren't fun because the huge prevalence of such sections of squared off platforms that are also frequently over bottomless pits runs contrary to both the focus of the classic and modern games and works against the game's own controls.

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sc3.jpg

~I think they are fine, for the record.

Oh that...yeah, gonna have to side with Phos on this. Kinda works against the speedy gameplay the game generally has going for it, and while I wouldn't say they're terrible per se, it's not exactly the best thing to have for this.

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The only problem I have with the OP here is that I didn't find Colours or Generations boring. They just took way less time to 100% complete and were slightly less satisfying as a result.

Generally when I replay Sonic games I just... play all the levels through in order. I don't like Colours as much as the other two but I play it the exact same way.

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While I dislike the Werehog's gameplay(10 minutes or so is excuseable, but 30-40 minutes a level is NUTS; Eggmanland was even worse), I do agree overall: Unleashed had more of a difficulty curve that enhanced the amount of time one spent on it.

Difficulty is an interesting feature; too little will make the game seem not worth the buy. Too much will see the player break various things in a blind rage. Overall, having a basic mode and the ability to do multiple levels of difficulty can yield both. Think the standard mode was easy? Try the one that's 2 levels harder. Hilarity shall ensue.

Colors and Generations have many pros going for them, but one of them is how they don't seem quite worth the money for time spent playing, unless you're eager to go do a bunch of sidequests.

I understand a common rallying point for those supporting more classic games is that you could beat them in a day, but when I can buy various other titles and get far, far more time for my money, Sonic ranks up subpar.

I think his speed may in fact be his weakness as much as his strength. It's probably hard as heck to build a detailed world he can speed through. What takes Link an hour to go through he can get through in two minutes.

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Honestly, the classics being beatable in short time is a non-argument to me because of two things;

1. When the classics came out, most games could be beaten in pretty short playthroughs, that was what the hardware at the time was limited to.

2. Who the fuck would pay £40-50 nowadays for even all four of the classic tri/quadrilogy these days?

Using these alone as reasons why the short Sonic game length of the likes of Generations is expected is silly.

Edited by VEDJ-F

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Yeah, short games are good and all, but not if one's gonna fork over 50 dollars. Or 60, as the norm for new games is increasingly becoming. I can buy much longer games for that money(though I'm such a loyal fan I'll still buy Sonic anyway. Curse my fanboy status).

Analysing time for money wise, Sonic 4 was about 15 USD. For one episode with 17 stages. That take ~5 minutes(just an estimate), so 15 dollars = 1 1/2 hours of gameplay. Maybe 2, 2 1/2 assuming several deaths and the special stages.

I'm actually tempted to try a playthrough of Sonic Unleashed from the start to record how much time it took(though since I recognise many of the Day stages, it'll be quicker this time around), though I know I beat Gens in 5 hours.

Really, all the side missions are the only way to get your money's worth with Generations and Colors. Good games, but very short gameplay.

Let's not even mention the Sun/Moon Medals... :P

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Honestly, the classics being beatable in short time is a non-argument to me because of two things;

1. When the classics came out, most games could be beaten in pretty short playthroughs, that was what the hardware at the time was limited to.

2. Who the fuck would pay £40-50 nowadays for even all four of the classic tri/quadrilogy these days?

Using these alone as reasons why the short Sonic game length of the likes of Generations is expected is silly.

I get what you're saying.

So what kind of length of game are we looking at here? What would we agree would be the appropriate length for a zero-death non-speed run of an average Sonic stage? I would say somewhere in the region of 3-7 mins tops. I would also suggest that about 9-12 zones and two acts a peice plus 9-12 bosses plus final boss. Each boss being around 5 mins long (average) and final boss maybe stretching to 10 mins. So that is a minimum time (i.e no deaths) of around 145 mins (2 hours 25 mins) to 190 mins (3 hours 10 mins).

Add in about 90 mins of time consumed by deaths (at worst). So for a single character (assuming there are a max of 3 playable characters) we're looking at 235 mins (3 hours 55 mins) to 280 mins (4 hours 40 mins). I'm going to go with the former because it seems more likely that we have 9 stages.

So three playable characters each playing for the same amount of time (through the same stages, but through different areas of the same stages) we'll have a potential total time of 705 mins (11 hours 45 mins) or if we're ambitious maybe even 840 mins (14 hours).

That sounds pretty good for a Sonic game.....maybe a little ambitious though.....

Extra time could be consumed through hub worlds and missions (optional in best case scenario)

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Since deaths and bosses were mentioned:

Sonic Unleashed's bosses were awesome. They were all very difficult to start with(for me anyway) but eventually you get them down. Most hated was probably Egg Devil Ray, up until Dark Gaia anyway. (By the way it should be possible to skip Dark Gaia and just fight Perfect; that theme rocks. But I digress!)

Then you had Generations' Time Eater. Ughhhh.

Bosses are probably one of the best ways to add extra gameplay time. In a speed-based game, you can afford to rank up difficulty. The point isn't to run free and explore, the point is to beat the living daylights out of the machine/rival/Eldritch Abomination in front of you. You might be doing it on a fast track, but the focus is on the boss, not the actual stage, unlike in an ordinary level.

Some bosses also are a lot of fun; Egg Dragoon is one of my favorites to replay by a large margin. That tense music in the background seals the deal.

Colors and Generations' bosses (Time Eater aside) just didn't seem that challenging for me; heck, I was amazed I beat the Egg Dragoon Mk II given how often he got me down to zero rings, yet I bested him on the first try. Which is a shame, since bosses are one of the best ways to increase gameplay length. Well, that and ragequits, but hey, it's hard to strike a balance between way too easy and so hard you curl into a ball. (No pun intended)

Though Sega had the right idea with the Hard Modes for bosses; now if they applied this to stages... it adds gameplay without feeling like a shoe in for extra time, unlike a side mission.

Also, definitely in support of hub worlds. Nice way to explore and such, and I think a better way to do optional side quests than just selecting a stage and going for it. Real shame Sonic's speed is his downfall, otherwise we could have a massive open world to run around in!

Edited by TaniciusFox

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