What did you think about Shadow The Hedgehog?

[ArtFenix]

T-Bert Fizzlewut, so you took one of the worst lines from Shadow and another line from Colors, which has the name "BEST line in Colors". Riiiiiiight.

You're okay with this bastardization of his character simply because "it's still Shadow" and you're getting to play as a character other than Sonic?

Yes, I forgive Sonicteam for that. Yes, it's because the story is about Shadow and because I can play as him.

Especially since Shadow was alright in 06 and I loved him in Free riders.

Oh, and quite frankly, I have to wonder: what makes Sonic being the only playable character such an unforgivable sin?

Because they can do better? Because even classic games had something more than just Sonic? Because it's degradation? Because it's simply boring to play as only one character for almost 6 freaking years and not being able to see other chars at least being important to the stories (don't bring up Tails or Amy, these are given)?

Fuckin' really? So apparently being lighthearted is a bad thing for this series

Fucking no. Being extremely shallow, barebones and too lighthearted is. Of course being as dark as Shadow is not appropriate either, but that game was about Shadow, not Sonic and I'm fine with dark stories, as I've said several times already.

That is bullshit to the highest degree, and even if that was the case you would be flat out hypocritical not to consider ShTH to have "zero storyline".

Haha no. Shadow definitely has a story. It's just it wasn't executed that well. Colors however has too simplistic story and generations has basically no story whatsoever.

Look, there are many of us who want to play as other characters, who want them to grow some balls and attempt to do darker elements and further add intensity to their plots, but doing so in the most ass way possible isn't something to be put on a pedestal.

That's great to hear. When there will be some games with other chars playable, we'll talk. As of now, there is no modern game to compare to games like Shadow the hedgehog (I'm speaking about other characters being relevant to the story and playable).

Personal enjoyment and objective quality do not go hand in hand. A person can hypothetically "enjoy" Sonic 06, but to call it "good" just because you "enjoyed" is simply wrong.

Fuck(((((((( Man, just look at the damn title. Ok, here it is for you all

What did you think about Shadow The Hedgehog?

Well I think it's good enough and I like the game regardless of how bad you think it is. Is it a better answer?! I never said the game is objectively great, I just said I like it. Where did you get that stuff about me saying the game is objectively great and that you are all wrong for not liking it? Why do you put your words in my mouth?

[Sami]

T-Bert Fizzlewut, so you took one of the worst lines from Shadow and another line from Colors, which has the name "BEST line in Colors". Riiiiiiight.

lol. There are no good lines in Shadow, you silly goose! 8)

Because they can do better? Because even classic games had something more than just Sonic? Because it's degradation? Because it's simply boring to play as only one character for almost 6 freaking years and not being able to see other chars at least being important to the stories (don't bring up Tails or Amy, these are given)?

It's still better than this shit, so...

Fucking no. Being extremely shallow, barebones and too lighthearted is. Of course being as dark as Shadow is not appropriate either, but that game was about Shadow, not Sonic and I'm fine with dark stories, as I've said several times already.

What, pray tell, isn't "too lighthearted"? Sonic Colors is pretty happy in tone, but not to the same degree as old Disney princess movies, children's television shows, or even a lot of anime.

Haha no. Shadow definitely has a story. It's just it wasn't executed that well. Colors however has too simplistic story and generations has basically no story whatsoever.

>Aliens attack.

>Shadow needs to collect those damn emeralds.

>Shadow collects those damn emeralds.

>Final story.

>Credits.

Yeah, that's just as bare-bones as Colors or even Generations, I'd say. Feel free to correct me, though. I haven't touched Shadow in years, and I doubt I will any time soon.

That's great to hear. When there will be some games with other chars playable, we'll talk. As of now, there is no modern game to compare to games like Shadow the hedgehog (I'm speaking about other characters being relevant to the story and playable).

So shit isn't as shitty if there isn't anything else to compare it to? Look, bro: Bad gameplay is bad gameplay, even if it is the only game in recent years to attempt a certain style.

Fuck(((((((( Man, just look at the damn title. Ok, here it is for you all

What did you think about Shadow The Hedgehog?

Well I think it's good enough and I like the game regardless of how bad you think it is. Is it a better answer?! I never said the game is objectively great, I just said I like it. Where did you get that stuff about me saying the game is objectively great and that you are all wrong for not liking it? Why do you put your words in my mouth?

You're saying several aspects of the game were good. We're disputing that.

If you really want to just state your opinion and not have any discussion afterwards, I think you'd be better off in the comments section of YouTube than an actual forum. That's kind of what these websites were designed for.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Desudash Demonhoof

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Fucking no. Being extremely shallow, barebones and too lighthearted is. Of course being as dark as Shadow is not appropriate either, but that game was about Shadow, not Sonic and I'm fine with dark stories, as I've said several times already.

I'm fine with dark stories too, when they're actually decent and appropriate. Otherwise, it get's no praise from me regardless of who the game was about.

Shallow and barebones tend to draw criticism from me, but that's not saying they're bad by default especially when I've played games that manage to do very well with just a very simple plot.

Haha no. Shadow definitely has a story. It's just it wasn't executed that well. Colors however has too simplistic story and generations has basically no story whatsoever.

Haha yes. Colors and Generations both had a story, and you damn well know that. Yes, they were simple, but you also know that being simple does not equate to having zero story.

Let's answer these questions:

Did Colors and Generations have a protagonist and antagonist?

Did they have any kind of conflict going on, like the protagonist fighting the antagonist?

Did it have a goal for the character to reach?

If yes to all 3, then it had a story. No if, ands, or buts about it. Hence why if you say that Colors or Generations had zero storyline, it is hypocritical for you to say that ShTH had one when they all have the basic requirements for it to be called a story in the first place.

That's great to hear. When there will be some games with other chars playable, we'll talk. As of now, there is no modern game to compare to games like Shadow the hedgehog (I'm speaking about other characters being relevant to the story and playable).

Sonic and the Black Knight?

Edited July 6, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[ArtFenix]

>Aliens attack.

>Shadow needs to collect those damn emeralds.

>Shadow collects those damn emeralds.

>Final story.

>Credits.

You missed a good amount of events. This is just dumb. You can retell pretty much any story in a few words like these. The basis is always simple, but there are always details which were in Shth but were not in Colors. They could tell us more about Tails being brainwashed and make him fight Sonic, they could tell us where did Jaker (or what was his name?) go etc. So while the basis of Shadow the hedgehog is simple, the whole Colors story is that simple.

It's still better than this shit, so...

No it's not. I know a lot of people who honestly enjoyed Knuckles/Rouge levels in Sa2. I am not one of them (in fact, I don't like them) but if the radar system was showing all 3 shards at the same time like in Sa, I think I would enjoy playing those levels much more.

So shit isn't as shitty if there isn't anything else to compare it to? Look, bro: Bad gameplay is bad gameplay, even if it is the only game in recent years to attempt a certain style.

I wasn't talking about the gameplay. It was about being able to play as someone other than Sonic and especially as one of my fav characters. That's why the game has some value to me. I clearly stated what was wrong about the gameplay so of course I know it's far from perfect. And since you spoke of the gameplay, it's not BAD (it's basically Sonic heroes' gameplay). It's not great, but it's not bad. If the controls were better, the gameplay would have been much better too.

old Disney princess movies, children's television shows, or even a lot of anime.

Ahaha now those had much more dark themed stuff than both Colors and generations combined.

I'm fine with dark stories too, when they're actually decent and appropriate. Otherwise, it get's no praise from me.

True, but as I've said, I think Shadow had much better story than Colors and Generations which were too barebones and too lighthearted for my taste.

Colors and Generations both had a story, and you damn well know that. Yes, they were simple, but you also know that being simple does not equate to having zero story.

Yes I know that there were stories.

Count the amount of story explaining cutscenes in Shadow and then in Colors and Generations, speaking of which, the game almost has no story cutscenes at all. And even those few cutscenes the game has are just useless fillers and you know that as well. When I said those games have no story I meant they are so insignificant and barebones that I could just say they have no stories. OK, that is not quite true about Colors, but I'm sure it's true if we speak about SG.

Sonic and the Black Knight?

Yeah, an almost on-rails spinoff game where there were like 2 or 3 levels where you could play as other characters with swords. Great example.>_>

Of course I'm speaking of main 3D titles.

Edited July 6, 2012 by ArtFenix

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yes I know that there were stories.

Count the amount of story explaining cutscenes in Shadow and then in Colors and Generations, speaking of which, the game almost has no story cutscenes at all.

Edited July 6, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Sami]

You missed a good amount of events. This is just dumb. You can retell pretty much any story in a few words like these. The basis is always simple, but there are always details which were in Shth but were not in Colors. They could tell us more about Tails being brainwashed and make him fight Sonic, they could tell us where did Jaker (or what was his name?) go etc. So while the basis of Shadow the hedgehog is simple, the whole Colors story is that simple.

[ArtFenix]

Dude, again that is false! Stop lying to me and especially to yourself, because you KNOW that isn't true.

Edited July 6, 2012 by ArtFenix

[Sami]

These are just extremes and I could list a good amount of tv shows and cartoons that had something more than that. Most of Disney animated movies had some serious and tragic moments. Beauty and the beast, Lion King etc. That old tv show x-men or spider man had much more than being stupid and lighthearted.

[Gabz Girl]

... o_o

Anyway, all I have to add really is that Generations and Colours did have lighthearted plots, Generations even more so. But they were only flawed in their presentation and lack of cutscenes, though there was still a coherent plot. The problem with ShtH is that they tried to do too much with it! The whole branching path thing is completely useless, because none of it is canon! This means that half the story is pretty useless anyway, except for the beginning and the end! Let's not forget the overly dark and serious tone which made the game too silly to take seriously.

Another thing. I used to be a big fan of Shadow before ShtH came out, and I felt that the game completely ruined his character and personality. He's never been the same since that game, and that's why I hate it even more. =[

Edited July 6, 2012 by Gabz Girl

[---]

While some of that may be true ^^^, I do like how Shadow was in 06 ironically. I actually think his characterization and story in that game was pretty darn good.

[Scar]

Fucking no. Being extremely shallow, barebones and too lighthearted is. Of course being as dark as Shadow is not appropriate either, but that game was about Shadow, not Sonic and I'm fine with dark stories, as I've said several times already.

[Semi-colon e]

Scar made a great post, kind of nailed the whole tone issue in the way I would have if I were any good with words.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, the whole concept of Mephiles being a clone of Shadow tempting Shadow into becoming evil again would have worked better in this game instead of 06. He could have been one of the Shadow Androids or something, and considering this game was about Shadow trying to figure out who he is and his morality stuff theoretically, Mephiles could have existed here and tried to manipulate Shadow into being a dick. It would have made for better character interactions and both Shadow and Mephiles would have been less bland here with more of a context than they were in 06.

I'd have taken that over Black Doom any day. Gerald creating Shadow was fine, we didn't need the whole Black Doom is Shadow's father thing in the mix as well, it's just a mess.

Also it's worth noting that while mature content doesn't automatically make a game mature, it doesn't make it immature either, it's all about HOW it's used. Same with child-friendly content, it doesn't have to be diabeetus level baby stuff or more serious about it. It's how it's used and how it fits in contextually. Shadow fails as this as it has the mature content but it just uses it to try and be cool rather than using it effectively in the storytelling and setting.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Solkia]

Jesus christ, is it really worth getting this worked up over?

[Scar]

Jesus christ, is it really worth getting this worked up over?

Not really.....but then this is a discussion board.....

[Diogenes]

Shth however has a more meaty story

Hhhhhahahaha, there's no meat in ShtH. It's all tofu, crud masquerading as meat. Literally nothing but the vaguest and most broad strokes of the entire pre-"Last Story" part of the game matter at all. There are evil aliens, they want Shadow to get the emeralds, the aliens helped make Shadow. That's it, that's the "meat" that you're so desperate to defend, this is what you find valuable in a game written for the lowest common denominator.

From what you've argued it sounds like you'd take an hour of garbage over 10 minutes of mediocrity.

[Soniman]

I'd say the only story more shallow and childish than Shadow was actually Sonic Heroes for painfully obvious reasons.

Edited July 6, 2012 by The Noodle

[ArtFenix]

There is no logical way to argue that a lighthearted, shallow, barebones plot is bad for a series about a cartoon blue hedgehog.

Stopped reading there.

This is one of those most stupid arguments one could bring up ever along with green eyes, "Sonic should not talk" and "wrong quills". If you really think so, then why are we discussing tons of topics on this board like Eggman's IQ, characters' personalities, plot holes and all that stuff?

I got it that people on this board tend to dislike the adventures and stories that had something more than "defeat Eggman" like it is now thanks to goddamn Colors. I don't see any reason to continue arguing with so many people while a few other Shadow (the game) fans silently sit in the corner. I explained my point of view. You don't accept my arguments? Fine. Neither do I accept half of yours. You think the game is awful? While it's by no means great I don't think so. You think the story is crap? Well, I think it's miles better than that shit in Colors or Generations. I have nothing else to add, I've already repeated myself in this thread several times. Thanks everyone for amazing discussion.

End of story.

[Scar]

Stopped reading there.

This is one of those most stupid arguments one could bring up ever along with green eyes, "Sonic should not talk" and "wrong quills". If you really think so, then why are we discussing tons of topics on this board like Eggman's IQ, characters' personalities, plot holes and all that stuff?

You missed the point.

You said it was bad for the series to have thin, lighthearted plots. Is it really bad for the series? Really? Like would it have a negative impact on the series if the stories continued to be lighthearted and barebones?

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. You can argue from a multitude of different perspectives but you cannot, with any conviction say that a barebones, lighthearted plot is bad for the series.

You really should have read on by the way.

I do want better stories because I know that Colours isn't as good as it can get. All I'm saying is, that simple, lighthearted stories (how many times have I said this now?) aren't bad for the series.

I got it that people on this board tend to dislike the adventures and stories that had something more than "defeat Eggman" like it is now thanks to goddamn Colors. I don't see any reason to continue arguing with so many people while a few other Shadow (the game) fans silently sit in the corner. I explained my point of view. You don't accept my arguments? Fine. Neither do I accept half of yours. You think the game is awful? While it's by no means great I don't think so. You think the story is crap? Well, I think it's miles better than that shit in Colors or Generations. I have nothing else to add, I've already repeated myself in this thread several times. Thanks everyone for amazing discussion.

End of story.

Well whatever you want man.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Scar

[Diogenes]

This is one of those most stupid arguments one could bring up

You're defending ShtH.

If you really think so, then why are we discussing tons of topics on this board like Eggman's IQ, characters' personalities, plot holes and all that stuff?

Because the argument isn't between the story you want and literally no story at all, you twit. Get your head out of your ass and try to understand what people are actually saying, that ShtH's pathetic excuse for a story is horrendously written and the tone is entirely inappropriate for the series (and not because it's "serious" but because it's the most childish interpretation of what a serious story is). There are plenty of valid criticisms of Colors' story and I would wager that it is not most people's ideal kind of story, but it still does a lot of things better than ShtH, because it actually embraces the series' aesthetics, tone, and overall light-hearted nature, rather than expecting you to take a story about an angsty Looney Tunes reject who goes around shooting aliens and soldiers seriously.

[Abominal SnowTaz]

Count the amount of story explaining cutscenes in Shadow and then in Colors and Generations, speaking of which, the game almost has no story cutscenes at all. And even those few cutscenes the game has are just useless fillers and you know that as well.

Of course I'm speaking of main 3D titles.

Oh for God's sake. Not this shit again...

Dude, there are no FUCKING fillers in colors or Generations. Who's giving you this information?

Strange because I think that the one who is lying about that is you. Seriously, go watch Generations cutscenes. Must of them are either some babbling and fanservice and others are half story-related/half filler. And in every other cutscene Time eater suddenly appears and then disappears and everyone is like "wow, did you see that?" and all that shit. I don't think I'm lying in the slightest. Most of Generations cutscenes are just one giant filler.

No, it's not. Stop trying to back up ShTH, which you are not doing a good job of.

Stopped reading there.

This is one of those most stupid arguments one could bring up ever along with green eyes, "Sonic should not talk" and "wrong quills". If you really think so, then why are we discussing tons of topics on this board like Eggman's IQ, characters' personalities, plot holes and all that stuff?

I got it that people on this board tend to dislike the adventures and stories that had something more than "defeat Eggman" like it is now thanks to goddamn Colors. I don't see any reason to continue arguing with so many people while a few other Shadow (the game) fans silently sit in the corner. I explained my point of view. You don't accept my arguments? Fine. Neither do I accept half of yours. You think the game is awful? While it's by no means great I don't think so. You think the story is crap? Well, I think it's miles better than that shit in Colors or Generations. I have nothing else to add, I've already repeated myself in this thread several times. Thanks everyone for amazing discussion.

End of story.

Your 'arguments' are just rants about how you obviously fanboy obsess over ShTH and how it's supposed to be glorified over colors and generations. Accept that the game sucks and have a great day.

[The Weeb with No Name]

I agree with Fenix on one thing. The cutscenes in colors were largely meaningless, and nothing much would have been lost by not bothering with them.

Well, save for a chance to hear the new voice actors.

(make reaaaaaalllly bad jokes.)

Edited July 6, 2012 by Jayhawker30

[Diogenes]

Maybe, but that's at least as true of ShtH, if not more.

[Scar]

Maybe, but that's at least as true of ShtH, if not more.

Yes, considering that 8/10 of the game (and its cutscenes) was completely meaningless, because regardless of which route you chose, the game decides by the Last Story that Shadow is a hero.

(make reaaaaaalllly bad jokes.)

That's still better than random cursing.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Scar

[Kuzu]

Goddamn it guys, I wanted to read him the riot act, now he's not going to come back at all. Phooie.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Strange because I think that the one who is lying about that is you. Seriously, go watch Generations cutscenes. Must of them are either some babbling and fanservice and others are half story-related/half filler. And in every other cutscene Time eater suddenly appears and then disappears and everyone is like "wow, did you see that?" and all that shit. I don't think I'm lying in the slightest. Most of Generations cutscenes are just one giant filler.

Dude, I just gave a complete memorization of Generation's cutscenes in a one paragraph summary in that exact. SAME. POST.

Did you even read it?

Well duh! Colors has a very simple story, so simple that there should've been no plot holes alltogether. Still they made one somehow.

And it's a very minor one, compared to other plots in the series. And you don't see many people complaining over it than they do over games like ShTH and Sonic 06 or even Heroes.

Shth however has a more meaty story that they executed kind of poorly, but the point about Colors still stands.

What meat, dude? Barely any of the paths you take have any impact on the actual plot. The only thing that is for certain is that Black Arms invades Earth, Shadow starts off in Westopolis, and the Final Story. Everything in-between it makes no impact or is completely non-canon to boot, because if you end up fighting Black Doom somehow he's gone and then comes back asking for the Chaos Emeralds after you just kicked his ass; if you fought Eggman or Diablon, Eggman is somehow on the same side as the heroes and the GUN commander wasn't there for you to fight to begin with.

The things an incoherent mess.

Heroes is even worse in that department, but at least the ending had that epic and "time to get serious" feel.

So that one ending makes everything better, or what?