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Black Hedgehog

What did you think about Shadow The Hedgehog?

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As soon as I reread my post after I clicked post, someone was gonna bring it up. It IS a Sonic game, there's no denying that. Its apart of the Sonic series. Saying it isn't a Sonic game, is like saying Luigi's Mansion isn't a Mario game. It might be completely different then the other games in the series, but its still apart of it.

Ummm...Luigi's Mansion ISN'T a Mario game...but this is probably gonna get nowhere >3>

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I think it's laughably pathetic that everyone has to be right. Some people like Shadow, some people don't. It's a fucking war every time someone brings Shadow or his game up. Apparently no one can accept the other's opinions, and so this happens.

Edited by UltDevilDoom

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Ummm...Luigi's Mansion ISN'T a Mario game...but this is probably gonna get nowhere >3>

Its in the Mario series, has Mario characters, takes place in the Mario universe. See the trend? I could understand if I said something like Warioware because while it has Mario characters, its in a completely different universe.

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It's not a Sonic game, it's a Shadow game. He was most likely going to get his own series if the game did well. Using the "This shouldn't be in a Sonic game." doesn't work here. It's not a Sonic game.
It's a game derived directly from the Sonic series. It is a member of the "Sonic the Hedgehog" series of games. Thus it is a Sonic game. And as such, it derives the majority of its setting, characters, and tone from the rest of the series, and must largely be held to the same standards as the rest of the series. And ShtH's tone was wildly inappropriate.

You always seem to be the negative one.
Only as much as the series requires me to be.

There is a very long list of things wrong with '06. While one of the biggest and most hated problems is the character control scheme, that does not mean the characters themselves are the problem (save Silver).
The characters, as they appear in '06, are a problem.

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Okay. So explain to me how we all jumped into a DeLorean and traveled back in time far enough that "It's not really a Sonic game, so saying it should have guns is invalid as a criticism" suddenly becomes something that people can even pretend is a valid rebuttal.

Well someone brought up that it's a Sonic game, and I'm explaining how it isn't. If you have a problem with this subject, then look away. It's a forum for a reason. People are going to discuss these things.

As soon as I reread my post after I clicked post, someone was gonna bring it up. It IS a Sonic game, there's no denying that. Its apart of the Sonic series. Saying it isn't a Sonic game, is like saying Luigi's Mansion isn't a Mario game. It might be completely different then the other games in the series, but its still apart of it.

It isn't. Shadow used to be an incredibly popular character. SEGA thought of this as a way to launch him into his own video game. It features Sonic characters, yes, but that doesn't make it a Sonic game. Sonic and his friends aren't the main characters in this game. They have very minor roles. Shadow, Black Doom, Maria, and the Robotnik men are the main characters. Those to do with Shadow's past. It would be like saying 'Sonic appears in Nights, so it's a part of the Sonic series.' It's its own thing that features Sonic characters, but it certainly isn't a Sonic game.

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Well someone brought up that it's a Sonic game, and I'm explaining how it isn't. If you have a problem with this subject, then look away. It's a forum for a reason. People are going to discuss these things.
What he's saying is that this has all been done before, and your side has no case. At all. You'd sooner be able to argue that the sky is plaid than come up with a convincing argument for ShtH to not be a Sonic game.

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Well someone brought up that it's a Sonic game, and I'm explaining how it isn't.

It is an in-no-uncertain-terms main series title in the Sonic franchise with the bonus of being the direct storyline sequel to two other main series titles in the Sonic franchise; to the extent of making up the final part of a 3 game story arc. There is no discernible standard by which that does not make it a Sonic game.

Furthermore, when someone says "Guns don't belong in a Sonic game" it is generally understood to mean that "guns don't belong in the Sonic franchise;" and it is generally understood because people have been saying it since March 8th, 2005 so it should be commonly held by now that when someone says "guns don't belong in a Sonic game" they extend that to games that star Sonic in addition to ones that do not.

In other words, your "This isn't a Sonic game" rebuttal is basically the single most meaningless response imaginable to the discussion of whether or not real-world guns have a place in the Sonic franchise, for reasons above and beyond the fact that it is a Sonic game.

It isn't. Shadow used to be an incredibly popular character. SEGA thought of this as a way to launch him into his own video game. It features Sonic characters, yes, but that doesn't make it a Sonic game. Sonic and his friends aren't the main characters in this game. They have very minor roles. Shadow, Black Doom, Maria, and the Robotnik men are the main characters. Those to do with Shadow's past. It would be like saying 'Sonic appears in Nights, so it's a part of the Sonic series.' It's its own thing that features Sonic characters, but it certainly isn't a Sonic game.

Here's the thing: Regardless of if a backdoor pilot is a failure or success, it is still a part of whatever TV show it aired under. That's why it is a backdoor pilot instead of just a pilot. The only difference being if that attempt to pander out a spin-off series fails (as it did for Shadow), it just makes it even more jarring how blatant it was.

Edited by Gilda

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It isn't. Shadow used to be an incredibly popular character. SEGA thought of this as a way to launch him into his own video game. It features Sonic characters, yes, but that doesn't make it a Sonic game. Sonic and his friends aren't the main characters in this game. They have very minor roles. Shadow, Black Doom, Maria, and the Robotnik men are the main characters. Those to do with Shadow's past. It would be like saying 'Sonic appears in Nights, so it's a part of the Sonic series.' It's its own thing that features Sonic characters, but it certainly isn't a Sonic game.

I realize that SEGA wanted to give Shadow his own series by launching this game, but that still doesn't make it a non-Sonic game. Shadow having his own series never happened, so his one outing as the main character was placed into the Sonic series canon. And that NiGHTS argument is ridiculous. Sonic and the gang had a much more important role in Shadow than a simple cameo appearance.

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It isn't. Shadow used to be an incredibly popular character. SEGA thought of this as a way to launch him into his own video game. It features Sonic characters, yes, but that doesn't make it a Sonic game. Sonic and his friends aren't the main characters in this game. They have very minor roles. Shadow, Black Doom, Maria, and the Robotnik men are the main characters. Those to do with Shadow's past. It would be like saying 'Sonic appears in Nights, so it's a part of the Sonic series.' It's its own thing that features Sonic characters, but it certainly isn't a Sonic game.

Shadow the Hedgehog is a Spinoff from the 'Sonic The Hedgehog' franchise. Ergo, it technically counts as a Sonic game. Of course, people will say otherwise but, hey there's one flaw; It's just a crappy game, I don't really give a shit what it is.

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What I liked about Shadow the Hedgehog:

- A pretty sweet E.G.G.M.A.N. remix

- Memetic quotes

- Some of the level themes were okay

What I didn't like about Shadow the Hedgehog:

- Glitchy, terrible gameplay

- Awkard, forced attempt at "dark" storytelling

- Branching story paths often didn't make sense (Helping a character, then fighting them immediately afterward)

- Clumsily retconning aliens into Sonic Adventure 2's backstory

- Black Doom in general. One of the most uncreative villains of all time.

- The game's lame attempts to be edgy by hammering us with minor swear words. It's like a little kid saying "DAMN" for the first time in order to sound grown up.

- Eggman dies in three endings. Not cool, dude.

- Even if you help Eggman, the story forces you to immediately betray him anyway. No "Shadow joins the Eggman Empire" ending? How disappointing.

So yeah. Overall, I disliked Shadow the Hedgehog, and I see it as an embarrassing mistake in the Sonic franchise. We've certainly come a long way from it though, and I enjoy the direction the series is going nowadays. May we never have a Shadow-esque game again.

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The characters, as they appear in '06, are a problem.

I agree with that. They were not likable compared to previous versions of themselves in past games. Most of them felt like poor personality rehashes from those games. None of them stepped out for character growth.

There is no way I'm getting involved in the "Is Shadow a Sonic Game?" argument.

Edited by UltDevilDoom

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I...like Shadow the Hedgehog, a bit.

No, it's not a masterpiece by any means.

No, I can't say it's particularly one of my fave games at all.

Yes, the story as a whole is pretty shit.

Yes, people who don't like it all have very valid reasons for not doing so.

Yes, I still enjoy this more than the Adventur--oh wait, that just breaks the comment chain.

Shadow certainly isn't an example of what Sonic is about, but there's something about it that still makes it enjoyable. Maybe it's because I find more enjoyment in quite a lot of the levels, maybe it's because I tolerate the guns more than most, maybe it's because I just don't have typical tastes to begin with. Whatever it is, I can still go back to get and get an hour or two of just messing around it for fun, at the very least.

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It's "I'd hate to tick off G.U.N" actually.

He says piss instead of tick in an early prototype. I've seen footage.

Also from the Retro wiki:

Due to the minor controversy surrounding the use of weapons in the title, as well as mild swearing and the use of blood in the human and alien enemies, the game initially received a "T" rating from theESRB, Sega even asking those at trade shows and events where the game was being demoed to only play if they were 13 and up. As luck would have it, as the game was being produced, the ESRB decided to update their rating system, adding an "E10+" rating between "E" and "T." Wanting to take advantage of this, the Western translation of the game removed some of the swearing that was present, leaving other moments in tact. The blood was also dealt with, removed completely from the G.U.N. soldiers and changed to green for the Black Doom armada. This purposeful censorship on Sega's part allowed the game's rating to be changed to the lower ten-and-up designation, even if such a move contradicted the intention of targeting the game to an older audience.

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I may like the game, but I am open to hear that other people do not. To each is own.

Except the people that spew obviously undignified trash and show no signs of maturity. It's easy to spot.

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Chaos Powers is one thing, but having guns was pointless.

Shadow's game was pointless to begin with. I mean, the Chaos Powers make sense, but guns don't fit Sonic games at all, the story is shit, the gameplay is broken, and it's a mess.

Advice: Open your thread with more dignity than just a simple question. A paragraph or two would work.

Oh, and to make Shadow badass, even though he was fine without guns.

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