Staff changes among Sonic Team.

[Diogenes]

What are the significant differences between how the Adventure games played?

[Komodin]

Again, sharing the same general gameplay with a previous game does not mean that the game is an "expansion pack" for said previous game.

[Stritix]

What are the significant differences between how the Adventure games played?

They all looked differently, and played somewhat differently. Still sharing the base Adventure formula between them, which is something Sonic Team certainly needs to remember if they're going to continue using the Unleashed formula.

Again, sharing the same general gameplay with a previous game does not mean that the game is an "expansion pack" for said previous game.

It's the same game with a few control tweaks and new stages. That's what I call an expansion pack of a game.

[Komodin]

It's the same game with a few control tweaks and new stages. That's what I call an expansion pack of a game.

You may -- may -- have a case for that with Generations, but explain Colors because, unless I'm mistaken, there wasn't anything like the Wisps in that game.

I'm not really convinced, mang...

[Xenos]

It's the same game with a few control tweaks and new stages. That's what I call an expansion pack of a game.

So I guess this means every sequel of any game ever is an expansion pack of what came before it.

[Scar]

They all looked differently, and played somewhat differently. Still sharing the base Adventure formula between them, which is something Sonic Team certainly needs to remember if they're going to continue using the Unleashed formula.

The differences between SA1 and SA2 are about the same as the differences between Unleashed and Generations.

Differences is graphics don't really count for very much.

It's the same game with a few control tweaks and new stages. That's what I call an expansion pack of a game.

So SA2 is an expansion pack of SA1

[Stritix]

So I guess this means every sequel of any game ever is an expansion pack of what came before it.

More like you failed to understand.

I don't have too much of a problem with the formula. If they made something that played a bit differently and looked new, but still had the base Unleashed formula (Similar to how the Adventure games progressed) then they certainly wouldn't be hearing that many people complaining, but that's not what they're doing. They're releasing Sonic Unleashed over and over with new stages, which is basically DLC packs.

Same Formula =/= Same Game

They're not reusing the formula, they're reusing the same game.

The differences between SA1 and SA2 are about the same as the differences between Unleashed and Generations.

Differences is graphics don't really count for very much.

So SA2 is an expansion pack of SA1

No, they both looked completely different, and played very differently. They share the same base mechanics, but they don't play the same. Whereas Generations is Unleashed with minor control fixes and new stages. Also take a look at the jump then from Sonic Adventure 2 to Sonic Heroes, then from Sonic Heroes to Sonic 06. If they Unleashed formula is going to stick around, they need to at least make the difference the next game has as big as the difference from Adventure - Adventure 2. Graphics certainly count for a lot too. New graphics per game = a fresh new feel each time, but with the same core gameplay.

You may -- may -- have a case for that with Generations, but explain Colors because, unless I'm mistaken, there wasn't anything like the Wisps in that game.

I'm not really convinced, mang...

The wisp gimmick did help it play differently, but it's certainly not an innovative way of making the game play differently. They shouldn't be using tacky gimmicks like that in order to create difference between the games. Also graphically it only looked different because they severely dumbed down Unleashed's graphics.

Edited July 8, 2012 by -L-

[Diogenes]

They all looked differently,

Why is this even a good thing? A series shouldn't be changing its aesthetics with every game. The series has found a pretty solid style and they should stick with it.

and played somewhat differently.

So are you going to answer my question and explain what these differences are, or are you just going to insist that you're right with no explanation?

[Komodin]

The wisp gimmick did help it play differently, but--

"But" nothing. The fact of the matter is, while it shared the same general gameplay with Sonic Unleashed, the Wisps helped make it its own game as opposed to being a mission-pack sequel. The quality of the Wisps doesn't matter for this argument.

[Semi-colon e]

New graphics per game = a fresh new feel each time, but with the same core gameplay.

So a consistent art style is bad now? Also how can you say that Colours and Unleashed look the same when Unleashed was almost entirely realistic stylistically aside from Eggmanland and the monster designs, while Colours had really trippy outer worldy space stuff? And Generations, where it's built entirely off old levels, so it would have been a BAD thing if the aesthetics had differed so much?

Also Diogenes, what I was saying about double standards earlier? This is what I meant (though the formula stuff was a reasonable point).

Edited July 8, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Stritix]

"But" nothing. The fact of the matter is, while it shared the same general gameplay with Sonic Unleashed, the Wisps helped make it its own game as opposed to being a mission-pack sequel. The quality of the Wisps doesn't matter for this argument.

Not exactly. It was still Unleashed with a small wisps gimmick thrown in there. Some stages played differently because of it, but not that many.

So a consistent art style is bad now? Also how can you say that Colours and Unleashed look the same when Unleashed was almost entirely realistic stylistically aside from Eggmanland and the monster designs, while Colours had really trippy outer worldy space stuff? And Generations, where it's built entirely off old levels, so it would have been a BAD thing if the aesthetics had differed so much?

Also Diogenes, what I was saying about double standards earlier? This is what I meant (though the formula stuff was a reasonable point).

Consistent Art Style =/= Reusing the same graphics over and over

They could easily stick with the same art style in general, but also create different graphics to differ it from the previous titles, which isn't what they're doing. Again, Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 shared the same general art style, but both looked very different.

[Kuzu]

If they Unleashed formula is going to stick around, they need to at least make the difference the next game has as big as the difference from Adventure - Adventure 2.

What fucking differences are you talking about? They play virtually the same, so what is so different that it makes oh so better than Unleashed-Generations. Or are you just talking out your ass

[Diogenes]

Consistent Art Style =/= Reusing the same graphics over and over

And what graphics did Generations reuse from Unleashed?

[Xenos]

Oh, I didn't fail to understand anything I don't think.

It sounds like you are saying they are Expansion packs because they are using something we like to call, consistency.

You know a similar franchise that did this? The Metroid prime series. All of them have similar gameplay with a few differences other than maybe powerups, levels, story, and whatnot. Similar to that of the Modern games.

Are you going to tell me they are Expansion Packs as well?

What about the Mother series? Similar gameplay with differences like music, story, and the graphics got newer over time.

Expansion pack as well?

I don't really understand your reasoning.

[Semi-colon e]

Consistent Art Style =/= Reusing the same graphics over and over

They could easily stick with the same art style in general, but also create different graphics to differ it from the previous titles, which isn't what they're doing. Again, Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 shared the same general art style, but both looked very different.

Games reuse graphics a lot, it's something that happens, and honestly, if I had something as fantastic looking as the original Rooftop Run, I wouldn't want to mess with it too much either. And even then, they made it all confetti-ish and celebratory just to differ from the original level somewhat.

Not every single fucking thing has to be totally changed from game to game. The Classic physics between games only differed slightly, because it was good enough in most cases already.

And again, how does Colours look the same as Unleashed? The realism levels differ so vastly.

Also I was thinking of bringing up the Metroid Prime games, they are very consistent, probably moreso than the Boost games are, but Xeno already covered that.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Komodin]

Not exactly. It was still Unleashed with a small wisps gimmick thrown in there. Some stages played differently because of it, but not that many.

I wouldn't call the Wisps a "small gimmick". Nonetheless, the fact remains: it shares the same general gameplay with Unleashed, but the Wisps helped make it ots own game.

I'm still not convinced....

[Stritix]

What fucking differences are you talking about? They play virtually the same, so what is so different that it makes oh so better than Unleashed-Generations. Or are you just talking out your ass

Someone needs to take a break, and possibly a glass of water.

Again, they share the same base gameplay mechanics, but both have a lot of gameplay differences. This isn't the case with Unleashed-Generations.

And what graphics did Generations reuse from Unleashed?

Apart from some new stage textures, practically everything.

Oh, I didn't fail to understand anything I don't think.

It sounds like you are saying they are Expansion packs because they are using something we like to call, consistency.

You know a similar franchise that did this? The Metroid prime series. All of them have similar gameplay with a few differences other than maybe powerups, levels, story, and whatnot. Similar to that of the Modern games.

Are you going to tell me they are Expansion Packs as well?

What about the Mother series? Similar gameplay with differences like music, story, and the graphics got newer over time.

Expansion pack as well?

I don't really understand your reasoning.

I don't call releasing DLC packs as a new game 'consistent', I call it unoriginal and lacking. Again, there are many ways to make sure that the titles are consistent without reusing everything.

Edited July 8, 2012 by -L-

[Komodin]

Again, they share the same base gameplay mechanics, but both have a lot of gameplay differences.

Like... what, exactly? Grinding?

[---]

Just poking my head in to state a few things:

1: Unleashed and Generations don't play the same, Unleashed feels more stiff (and this isn't even talking about the gradual improvement in level design)

2: Unleashed and Generations don't have the same graphics, Unleashed has superior, almost CGI looking graphics

3: Just because games use the same gameplay formula doesn't make them DLC packs of the first, in fact I think that's pretty dang stupid.

Edited July 8, 2012 by OneDoesNotSimplySuperJXJ

[Xenos]

I don't call releasing DLC packs as a new game 'consistent', I call it unoriginal and lacking. Again, there are many ways to make sure that the titles are consistent without reusing everything.

You still haven't explained what made the fucking Adventure games any different in that regard. And what are these "Ways" you speak of? Explain, I'm love to know really.

And next time don't dodge half the quote just to re-say what you've been saying the whole time thanks.

[sonfan1984]

The more you keep saying they keep releasing DLC packs as games the more moronic you sound. That kind of thinking could be said for just about any game series out there.

[Stritix]

Just poking my head in to state a few things:

1: Unleashed and Generations don't play the same, Unleashed feels more stiff

2: Unleashed and Generations don't have the same graphics, Unleashed has superior, almost CG looking graphics

3: Just because games use the same gameplay formula doesn't make them DLC packs of the first, in fact I think that's pretty dang stupid.

Next time, read the previous messages before sticking your head in. I'm sick of repeating myself over and over to new-comers.

1. Again, control tweaks which doesn't differ anything.

2. Yes they do. They reuse the same models, same textures, etc.

3. Again, reusing the same formula is far from reusing the same game over and over.

[Komodin]

Again, reusing the same formula is far from reusing the same game over and over.

Again, indeed. Therefore, Colors and Generations are "DLC Packs" for Unleashed.

Your argument... it still isn't really convincing...

[Diogenes]

Again, they share the same base gameplay mechanics, but both have a lot of gameplay differences. This isn't the case with Unleashed-Generations.

You keep posting, but you can't or won't answer the question. If you can't even tell me what the differences are, why should I give a shit about what you have to say?

Apart from some new stage textures, practically everything.

By "some" new stage textures, you mean nearly all of them? Rooftop Run is the only level that I would expect has any significant texture reuse. Are you complaining that the springs and ramps look the same?

[King Frosty]

Eh, I wouldn't want the staff to be changed at all. Just hire more people like others have been saying.

Even though Sega is in a jam right now, would it be a good idea to have a Sonic Team USA again?