Staff changes among Sonic Team.

[Alice Twilight]

Because it's fun to them. What's so hard to understand about that?

It was Fun in Unleashed and it was alright in Colors, Why was it alright in colors? You could do other neat stuff.

Generations was a glorified Unleashed level pack that brang nothing new.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Morrigan Aensland

[Xenos]

I'm saying they shouldn't reuse the same graphics over and over, but create new ones with the same art style to give each game a fresh look, but remaining consistent.

Unleashed is the realistic mixed with Sonic.

Colors is eye bleedingly colorful and more fantastical environments.

Generations is an anniversary game that brought back old stages from the past into the HD World with the beautiful Aesthetics from the stages original debut in tack.

So, uh, I think they did exactly what you asked for.

EDIT: Eeeeeh...this isn't going anywhere though. I'm just gonna..stop.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Xenos

[Komodin]

How someone can still find Unleashed's shallow gameplay fun.

Fun is subjective, I guess. Personally, I still find it rather fun.

Generations was a glorified Unleashed level pack that brang nothing new.

Hey, how about we not start this shit up again, hm?

[Stritix]

They didn't create new graphics apart from new stage textures, which still reused stage textures from Unleashed (Certain stage detail objects, also the water, etc) Everything else is the same. Same models, rings, ramps, etc.

Diogenes I see where you're coming from, but the fact still remains that the Unleashed formula's progression differences compared to the Adventure formula's progression differences are small compared. Sonic Adventure - Sonic Adventure 2 may not be the best example, but if you compare Sonic Adventure - Sonic Heroes, you'll see the difference.

No more Unleashed clones?

I hope so.

Generations felt like a modded Sonic Unleashed game.

Why people went wild over it i do not know.

This is what I've been saying. Watch out, they'll eat you.

Colors and Generations have the same graphics because they were pretty much in production at the same time, so that's why they mostly use the same models for the characters and etc.

I hope you're right. If you are, I won't have a problem.

[Alice Twilight]

This is what I've been saying. Watch out, they'll eat you.

Well, I'm glad someone agree's I hate how no one acknowledges its flaws, I liked it, I admit that, but the more I play it, the more I think it could be so much more. It's Unleashed with nostalgia as its selling point.

I hope the new staff do something we've never seen before and keep doing it with every title while keeping what we like about Sonic still present, his speed.

[Carbo]

Guys, this argument is really going in circles here, nevermind it being the billionth time we've been on the subject. If there's nothing to be obtained anymore this topic has probably outlived its purpose so knock it off.

[Komodin]

Diogenes I see where you're coming from, but the fact still remains that the Unleashed formula's progression differences compared to the Adventure formula's progression differences are small compared. Sonic Adventure - Sonic Adventure 2 may not be the best example, but if you compare Sonic Adventure - Sonic Heroes, you'll see the difference.

"Small" does not equal "non-existent." Just sayin'...

This is what I've been saying. Watch out, they'll eat you.

Oh, come now, don't do this. It's not only rather unnecessary, but it'll just make you look rather bitter.

ETA: And with Carbo's post in mind, I'll concede. That was rather fun, I must say.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Komodin

[Stritix]

"Small" does not equal "non-existent." Just sayin'...

Seeing how minor they are, they might as well be non-existent.

Oh, come now, don't do this. It's not only rather unnecessary, but it'll just make you look rather bitter.

I was being humorous. No need for that.

Edit: Didn't see Carbo's message. But I agree with him. Let's end it here.

Edited July 8, 2012 by -L-

[Diogenes]

They didn't create new graphics apart from new stage textures, which still reused stage textures from Unleashed (Certain stage detail objects, also the water, etc) Everything else is the same. Same models, rings, ramps, etc.

So you expect them to change generic objects for no reason? That may just be the stupidest fucking reason to criticize a game that I have ever heard. The vast majority of the game (that is, Rooftop Run and generic objects aside, and even RR has significant new additions) is graphically entirely new. Do you expect them to remodel and retexture something as basic as a ring literally every time? What good does that do?

Diogenes I see where you're coming from, but the fact still remains that the Unleashed formula's progression differences compared to the Adventure formula's progression differences are small compared.

But the difference between how much each pair of games changed is small. SA2 may have changed a little bit more from SA than Generations did from Unleashed, but not to the point that you can bash one and praise the other for it.

but if you compare Sonic Adventure - Sonic Heroes, you'll see the difference.

Considering this lead to progressively worse games this isn't change worth praising. Don't fetishize change in itself.

[McGroose]

Anyway...

If just to see how thing's would work out, I'd like to see how the series could take a new direction, but I don't want to see any staff members removed.

Colors and Generations were Steps in the right direction, So I want to see how the next major installment to the franchise will affect it.

[Alice Twilight]

Anyway...

If just to see how thing's would work out, I'd like to see how the series could take a new direction, but I don't want to see any staff members removed.

Colors and Generations were Steps in the right direction, So I want to see how the next major installment to the franchise will affect it.

But they felt like major steps bac.....never mind.

It'll just keep repeating again.

Still, I want Yuji Naka to come back.

Well, I've been out of sync with Sonic as of late, so I dunno what the guy is doing now.

[Ekaje]

Making games about tapping boxes and games that look neat but no one wants to publish for some reason.

[PerfectChaos]

They didn't create new graphics apart from new stage textures, which still reused stage textures from Unleashed (Certain stage detail objects, also the water, etc) Everything else is the same. Same models, rings, ramps, etc.

Diogenes I see where you're coming from, but the fact still remains that the Unleashed formula's progression differences compared to the Adventure formula's progression differences are small compared. Sonic Adventure - Sonic Adventure 2 may not be the best example, but if you compare Sonic Adventure - Sonic Heroes, you'll see the difference.

So now water should look different in every game? And are you SERIOUSLY complaining that rings and ramps look the same, or are you just trolling us in an attempt to revert the Sonic fanbase to its former 'dark ages' state? And are you aware that Generations is a bloody ANNIVERSARY game? Did you honestly expect Sonic to be able to fly, teleport and vapourise stuff in a game that's a mere nod to the past? And just what the hell do you want the formula to do different? We've had TWO semi-similar games, one being a nod to the past, BOTH having different content (Werehog/Classic) so what's the problem?Lastly, you want Sonic to have even more slippery controls and a crappy new gameplay gimmick? SA2-Heroes changes were NOT good.

[sonfan1984]

Oh nooo, it's starting again.

[Stritix]

So you expect them to change generic objects for no reason? That may just be the stupidest fucking reason to criticize a game that I have ever heard. The vast majority of the game (that is, Rooftop Run and generic objects aside, and even RR has significant new additions) is graphically entirely new. Do you expect them to remodel and retexture something as basic as a ring literally every time? What good does that do?

Creating new graphics such as character models, textures, stage objects etc help give the game a whole new look. Which is what we need. It's not a 'stupid fucking reason'.

But the difference between how much each pair of games changed is small. SA2 may have changed a little bit more from SA than Generations did from Unleashed, but not to the point that you can bash one and praise the other for it.

Well gameplay-wise I didn't feel a difference between Unleashed-Generations They felt exactly the same, and looked the same.

Considering this lead to progressively worse games this isn't change worth praising. Don't fetishize change in itself.

I'm talking about how big the difference was between them. Not the direction the series was going in at the time.

But let's end it here. It's not going to get us anywhere.

Edited July 8, 2012 by -L-

[Alice Twilight]

So now water should look different in every game? And are you SERIOUSLY complaining that rings and ramps look the same, or are you just trolling us in an attempt to revert the Sonic fanbase to its former 'dark ages' state? And are you aware that Generations is a bloody ANNIVERSARY game? Did you honestly expect Sonic to be able to fly, teleport and vapourise stuff in a game that's a mere nod to the past? And just what the hell do you want the formula to do different? We've had TWO semi-similar games, one being a nod to the past, BOTH having different content (Werehog/Classic) so what's the problem?Lastly, you want Sonic to have even more slippery controls and a crappy new gameplay gimmick? SA2-Heroes changes were NOT good.

That's not the point, interestingly enough Generations was literally built on top of Unleashed. You can see this in PC versions files.

What does this tell you?

Lazy game is lazy.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Morrigan Aensland

[Komodin]

So... how about those staff changes? That's certainly a more interesting topic than arguing over the "Modern Era" games and how they apparently suck for the umpteenth time, right?

Seriously, I just want a fun Sonic game that I can find myself easily replaying for a long time. I can't say I'm really concerned about staff changes as long as the end result yields fun and excitement.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Komodin

[sonfan1984]

That's not the point, interestingly enough Generations was literally built on top of Generations. You can see this in PC versions files.

What does this tell you?

Generations is built on top of Generations? What the hell is that suppose to mean? o.0

[McGroose]

Generations is built on top of Generations? What the hell is that suppose to mean? o.0

I think she meant to say Unleashed.

You can See Files and Other Bits of Unleashed In Generation's PC port.

Like how when we ripped the original demo to shreds when we first got it, and found a few symbols from Unleashed like the Werehog Icon, and people worried that the Werehog would be in the game,

Edited July 8, 2012 by Mephiles550

[Stritix]

Generations is built on top of Generations? What the hell is that suppose to mean? o.0

I'm sure she means Unleashed.

[PerfectChaos]

We just need more staff, not less. Dunno if Sega could afford it right now...

[Alice Twilight]

Generations is built on top of Generations? What the hell is that suppose to mean? o.0

Meant to say Unleashed.

Edited it for less confusion

Edited July 8, 2012 by Morrigan Aensland

[Diogenes]

Creating new graphics such as character models, textures, stage objects etc help give the game a whole new look. Which is what we need. It's not a 'stupid fucking reason'.

You do realize that all of the stage designs, the majority of the level objects, 99% of the textures, etc etc, are brand new?

Well gameplay-wise I didn't feel a difference between Unleashed-Generations They felt exactly the same, and looked the same.

And I don't feel much more of a difference between SA and SA2.

I'm talking about how big the difference was between them. Not the direction the series was going in at the time.

Yes that's my point, you're fetishizing change rather than caring about improvement. The way you talk you'd take an arbitrary or even damaging change over continuing to do something well.

But let's end it here. It's not going to get us anywhere.

If you actually meant that, you would've said it instead of responding to my post. It's disingenuous to declare the conversation over only after you get the last word in.

That's not the point, interestingly enough Generations was literally built on top of Generations. You can see this in PC versions files.

What does this tell you?

Sonic Team knows better than to remake the wheel when they're aiming for something similar to the existing wheel? This is not at all out of the ordinary, dude; the Genesis games were built on each other too. Why waste time remaking things from scratch when you don't need to?

[Professor Pickle]

I won't say anything about gameplay, but I will say this:

Creating new graphics such as character models, textures, stage objects etc help give the game a whole new look. Which is what we need. It's not a 'stupid fucking reason'.

Making new character models just for variety's sake? Yes it is.

It's the constant changes to the series that got it into the shitter, and now that they've actually got a staff that knows what they're doing, along with a gameplay style that's been generally well-recieved, they're smart enough not to try anything new until they're ready.

[Remy]

If you look on the last page you'll see this.

Guys, this argument is really going in circles here, nevermind it being the billionth time we've been on the subject. If there's nothing to be obtained anymore this topic has probably outlived its purpose so knock it off.

Now several posts later we're still posting in circular arguments. I'll refrain from adding my 2 cents on the subject of game engines, which is not what this thread is even about, for the sake of our collective sanity. I'll also refrain from any strikes, and just let the people in here off with a warning.

Don't ignore staff warnings, and try and cool down before you post. If you can't do that you might have to take a vacation from the board

Anyway, this topic has most certainly outlived its purpose. Locked.