Would you miss the Boost?

[Diogenes]

Sonic is stated to be the Fastest thing alive and Speed is his natural ability, so in a white void he should be able to hit top speed without the use of the environment. The environment should just quicken the ability to move at high speeds, instead of being the only way.

But the environment isn't going to help you speed up faster if you have the boost and just need to tap the button to reach max speed.

I think the boost fits Sonic because of the Sonic CD openings, the numerous speed and action scenes in Sonic X, and the Sonic Unleashed opening, among other things.

Cutscenes and TV shows are always going to do things that don't work in gameplay, because they don't have the restriction of actually playing well. Cutscene Sonic can pull off stunts that are both faster and more precise than anything gameplay Sonic can do, because cutscene Sonic is animated bit by bit and then played back, while gameplay Sonic has to be controlled in real time by the same mechanics that drive the rest of the game. Cutscenes don't need to worry about balance or challenge or flow, they just need to be exciting. If you build a game to play like a cutscene, you're probably going to end up with a pretty shit game.

[Sparky]

But the environment isn't going to help you speed up faster if you have the boost and just need to tap the button to reach max speed.

Cutscenes and TV shows are always going to do things that don't work in gameplay, because they don't have the restriction of actually playing well. Cutscene Sonic can pull off stunts that are both faster and more precise than anything gameplay Sonic can do, because cutscene Sonic is animated bit by bit and then played back, while gameplay Sonic has to be controlled in real time by the same mechanics that drive the rest of the game. Cutscenes don't need to worry about balance or challenge or flow, they just need to be exciting. If you build a game to play like a cutscene, you're probably going to end up with a pretty shit game.

The boost isn't always available to due the boost gauge and sometimes it's not the right time to use it. So during those times, Sonic could use the environment and other skills to continue without having to stop.

[Diogenes]

The boost isn't always available to due the boost gauge

How often does this actually come up? The games basically drown you in boost energy.

and sometimes it's not the right time to use it. So during those times, Sonic could use the environment and other skills to continue without having to stop.

If there's enough room to build up speed by rolling, there's enough room to boost.

[Solly]

The boost isn't always available to due the boost gauge and sometimes it's not the right time to use it. So during those times, Sonic could use the environment and other skills to continue without having to stop.

If you've got the level memorized (which is something modern games put emphasis on, being geared towards time attack) then you can get through the majority of the stage using it without fear of it running out.

To be honest, I'd like to see the boost done away with. Either that, or altered considerably. And by considerably I mean beyond recognition. For example, they could turn it into a slightly souped-up version of Amy's skipping move from Sonic Advance: Pressing the button would make Sonic charge forward for a short distance, and he could keep his momentum, but it wouldn't be enough to get through loops/corkscrews/slopes by itself, and it wouldn't nearly as fast as the Spin Dash-- just enough to get the player moving.

That way players who find being at a standstill frustrating would have a way to get going instantly, without cheapening the level design or other moves in Sonic's arsenal. Just a thought.

In any case, I don't like the idea of having a move that brings Sonic to his top-speed immediately.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Solly

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Considering the game guides you around the turns in the first area, probably pretty far...

How far will it get you in the latter areas?

[Diogenes]

Still pretty far, if memory serves. I've done large portions of the level without touching the control stick. Might jump back in to see exactly how much can be done...

[Solly]

How far will it get you in the latter areas?

Pretty sure the point was that pushing buttons and actually playing the game is something that should be required through the whole level, not just the later parts...

Granted there is more to it than just boosting, but you can get unreasonably far in some areas just holding forward, and it's a statement about the level design.

Edit: Ninja ninja ninja'd, believe it.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Solly

[WarioBone]

If the game drowns you in boost, how about it just DOESN'T? Colors rarely gave you boost, and when you did get it, you better damn-well be happy about it and use it to the best of your ability, because you're not getting anymore for a while.

[Nepenthe]

If the game drowns you in boost, how about it just DOESN'T? Colors rarely gave you boost, and when you did get it, you better damn-well be happy about it and use it to the best of your ability, because you're not getting anymore for a while.

Which made it a fairly useless ability and there was no real reason it should've been there. It's like Sonic's Light Speed Dash in Generations. I remember how jarring it was to encounter a ring trail in Speed Highway, and I never encountered another afterwards. So why was the ability even allotted to a button?

[Diogenes]

Just tested Dragon Road; it's only the spinning platforms that are a concern, everything else is beaten fairly easily without touching the left stick.

If the game drowns you in boost, how about it just DOESN'T? Colors rarely gave you boost, and when you did get it, you better damn-well be happy about it and use it to the best of your ability, because you're not getting anymore for a while.

It's a start, but what reasons do we have to keep the boost at all at this point? What would we lose by not having it?

[WarioBone]

How was it useless? Yeah, it wasn't used as much, but it gave you full invincibility to enemies and top speed with the press of a button. I used the crap out of the boost in Colors.

@Diogenes

Say the game gives you Boost Energy early on. There's one specific spot in the level that, if you use Boost, is just a GLORIOUS point orgy and pretty much instant S-Rank ticket. However, there are, on the way, many difficult areas that would benefit from the use of the boost as opposed to more difficult means of attack and conveyance. This could teach the player patience and timing, as well as give that much sought after "reward speed" so many clamor for. You could've used that boost earlier on, but you saved it, and now you're plowing through robots at top speed and knocking those robots into massive fuel containers that, in the end, bring down the giant Eggman Empire Battleship you're on, which you couldn't have seen if you didn't fight your way through the level the good-old-fashioned way.

In that sense, though, I'd like if the boost wasn't a gauge but, instead, a sort of limited-use ability. Say you have three, 25-second-long boosts to use for the stage, and that's it.

Edited July 11, 2012 by HyperMetal

[Nepenthe]

How was it useless? Yeah, it wasn't used as much, but it gave you full invincibility to enemies and top speed with the press of a button. I used the crap out of the boost in Colors.

The boost was essentially relegated to a power-up only situated at fairly blank roads, roads that were short enough to really not warrant any kind of speed element at all anyway. The rest of the game is a pretty much a tiered platforming haven, where you'll be jumping on blocks or abusing Wisps. Had they taken it out, the game would not be missing any crucial element or even suddenly crippled by level design that catered towards higher speeds.

[WarioBone]

That's where the rest of my post comes in handy.

[Nepenthe]

Uhh, the rest of your post seems to be describing a hypothetical boost, not the one that exists in Colors and the one I'm deriding.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Just tested Dragon Road; it's only the spinning platforms that are a concern, everything else is beaten fairly easily without touching the left stick.

It's a start, but what reasons do we have to keep the boost at all at this point? What would we lose by not having it?

Pretty sure the point was that pushing buttons and actually playing the game is something that should be required through the whole level, not just the later parts...

Granted there is more to it than just boosting, but you can get unreasonably far in some areas just holding forward, and it's a statement about the level design.

My point is that simply boosting to win and nothing more can kill you if all you do is boost throughout the game and expect to reach the end every level. I'm more than aware of the level design being created around the boost, and I'm one of the folks advocating for a change.

But if all you do is boostboostboost, then you'll definitely diediedie throughout the game. Not exactly boost2win, is it? And that's made all the more obvious by the haphazard difficulty roller-coaster in other day levels.

Edited July 11, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[OlenJimi]

I would miss the boost. Now it's really hard for me to go back and play older games without it though.

[Diogenes]

Say the game gives you Boost Energy early on. There's one specific spot in the level that, if you use Boost, is just a GLORIOUS point orgy and pretty much instant S-Rank ticket.

Oh, so, terrible balance. No thanks.

But seriously, what benefit is the boost here, that's worth keeping it? Why not cut it, bring back the spindash, and design your point orgy around it instead?

In that sense, though, I'd like if the boost wasn't a gauge but, instead, a sort of limited-use ability. Say you have three, 25-second-long boosts to use for the stage, and that's it.

Any situation where you can boost for 25 seconds straight is one I am immensely suspicious of. What, exactly, would I be doing for those 25 seconds?

My point is that simply boosting to win and nothing more can kill you if all you do is boost throughout the game and expect to reach the end every level.

If I see someone misunderstanding hyperbole one more time, I am going to kill myself*.

*I am not actually going to kill myself**, that is hyperbole

**probably just slam my head against the wall a few times

Edited July 11, 2012 by Diogenes

[WarioBone]

Uhh, the rest of your post seems to be describing a hypothetical boost, not the one that exists in Colors and the one I'm deriding.

Sorry, I was talking about how it COULD be used correctly. I didn't know we were talking about how Colors failed to use the boost in any significant way.

So yeah, I guess you win. Congrats.

@Diogenes

Hilarious that you mention misunderstanding hyperbole. Let me put it in less veiled terms then:

YOU GET A LOT OF POINTS FOR SAVING THE BOOST

I AM NOT A GAME DESIGNER AND DO NOT KNOW A WELL-BALANCED TIME FOR THE BOOST TO LAST

Edited July 11, 2012 by HyperMetal

[Winston]

I'd miss it kind-of, I like the speed.

But we all know who would miss it the most, the Irate Gamer.

"Sonic's about speed, speed, and more speed! Fuck yeah!" - The Irate Gamer

[Dr. Mechano]

The boost is basically Super Sonic that uses "boost energy" instead of rings.

Go really fast and plow through enemies and get a higher/farther jump? It's anytime Super Sonic, more or less. And I think having the boost available at all kinda defeats the purpose of Super Sonic's inclusion in the games.

I, for one, would not miss the boost. I've never liked it since its introduction in Sonic Rush.

[Diogenes]

A shitty point orgy is not worth keeping around a crappy mechanic that you've crippled in an attempt to fix.

I AM NOT A GAME DESIGNER

Well that much is obvious, but you sure seem determined to talk about game design in spite of it!

[WarioBone]

Well that much is obvious, but you sure seem determined to talk about game design in spite of it!

I...what? What are we SUPPOSED to be talking about? If we're not allowed to talk about things we don't know, this forum doesn't make much sense, now does it?

[Diogenes]

Obviously very few people here have any real experience with game design, but if you're going to talk about game design, you should probably take the time to learn a bit about game design, and not cry "well I'm not a game designer!" when people point out the problems with your game design ideas.

game design game design game design game design game design

[Burnt Ash]

You know, I'd love it if you could only replenish boost when you're not using it....

[PerfectChaos]

How would you guys feel if Spindash replaced Boost, but used up the action gauge?

You never know, this might actually work well. And Spindash could be used while moving - it's not exactly broken because you have a limited amount anyway. It's probably a flawed concept, but just a thought...