Would you miss the Boost?

[Diogenes]

What's the difference between that and the boost?

[PerfectChaos]

You have to charge it up. And when you put it that way, I suppose being able to do it while moving is not an option.

[Komodin]

You know, I'd love it if you could only replenish boost when you're not using it....

I think you can already do that in Sonic Generations with the Auto-Gauge skill.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If I see someone misunderstanding hyperbole one more time, I am going to kill myself*.

And if I see someone make another hyperbole, I'll treat it like any other comment like I always do.

*I am not actually going to kill myself**, that is hyperbole

**probably just slam my head against the wall a few times

I'll get an ice pack for your headaches when you're done, dude.

Edited July 11, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Burnt Ash]

I think you can already do that in Sonic Generations with the Auto-Gauge skill.

You can? That's pretty cool, if true. Allows for the boost...but at the same time, it makes it harder to get.

[Kuzu]

Guess who just got home from work?

Because both have objective differences in their utilization that makes people prefer one over the other.

The differences aren't that major that anybody would go apeshit if one was gone.

I'm not acting like that, and I even took the time to state plainly in a list that I don't feel Sonic would be uncharacteristically slow without the boost. So why do you keep setting up this strawman? Are you even listening to anything I have to say?

Then why does it matter if the boost is gone or not? The main argument that you're presenting is that "Sonic should be able to go fast with one button", and I've saying that's never needed to be the case ever, and why is it such a big deal if it's gone.

Rayman Origins has a run button and its level design is brilliant.

Because Rayman actually bothers to design levels with something other than running forward in mind, something the Modern games have yet to learn.

These ideas that relegating a speed increase to a button means there's no point in having decent level design, that every single level in a modern game is nothing but Windmill Ilse Act 2, or that there is nothing in the modern games to qualify as platforming, are so inherently ridiculous to the point that I don't feel like entertaining them anymore than I do the aforementioned strawman.

Because you're deluding yourself into thinking the Modern games aren't flawed at all, that they're these shining gems of awesome with no bad sides to it, it'd help if you actually bothered to listen to the other side of the argument. I'm not saying the Modern games are nothing but straight lines with nothing inbetween, I'm saying that the gameplay is so heavily focused on speed that it excludes and prohibits anything else that might interest the average player who doesn't have a hard on to go forward all of the time. Diversity is what I'm asking for, is that so damn hard to understand?

I didn't present it as anything other than a generalization. I said it plainly that the layman thinks of speed before anything else when they think of Sonic. That isn't a generalization so much as it is actual truth. It's also a rather insignificant point and I don't know why people are singling it out. I only said that in response to what I felt was an obvious question. "Is Sonic only known for going fast?" The answer is pretty much yes.

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying the games shouldn't be so dominated by that trait alone, which is basically what the Modern games have done; turned Sonic into a speed based platformer with little to no depth in the levels, and while that may fly over well with some people, it's gonna turn off people who want something more from their experience.

All of the time, this sentiment is bullshit

Well obviously there's some merit to it, somebody didn't just wake up and decided "Hey, I think Sonic Unleashed is a shallow platform game" simply to be dick, and I think you're overlooking that.

Your first sentence seems inherently contradictory, so I'm kind of confused.

Regardless, the only enemies you ever really mow over are two brands of Egg Fighters- two enemies out of the many I listed from one game alone. Besides, when boosting, you will probably come across Aero Chasers and Interceptors, which are capable of dealing damage and are simultaneously immortal. These will slow you down whilst boosting. When you are prompted to slow down, you come across a wider variety of enemies which can be taken down by the boost, but only through proper utilization and timing; you cannot boost through bullets.

Also, usually when a classic enemy "caught you off guard," it was either cheaply-implemented or cheaply-placed. I really don't miss Grounders popping out of the ground or those stupid little mice in Flying Battery's faster sections.

Those two enemies you listed only show up in about four levels, and only in scripted events, are you telling me that the only challenge I should expect from enemies are in events that basically play themselves?

And no, I'm not saying that enemies have ever been well implemented in this series, I'm saying that the Modern gameplay has made that aspect worse.

Why should I take into account what others want when I am arguing for merely the validity of my own preferences in a topic asking me about my preferences, especially when most others aren't doing the same for me when they say they want the boost gone?

Because your reasoning is flimsy; Sonic should be fast, therefore he should have a fast button? That's redundant, it's like giving Mario a "High Jump" power up when he's already capable of it in the first place. This topic is about personal preferences, but your preference should make sense, and I honestly can't understand the sentiment that Sonic needs a button to do something he's already been doing since his conception, which is going fast.

Again, this is purely subjective and I disagree with it. Most of my favorite platformers are fairly linear and have a primary focus on speed-running, and only have so much exploration to offer. I am seriously more likely to pop in Sonic Unleashed than I am Sonic 3 nowadays, and I love the shit out of Sonic 3.

Ok, cool. But why is it that we can't have a game that's both fast and has some depth to it's levels? Why is that Sonic must be so dominated by his speed gimmick that he isn't allowed to have anything else? Are people really not going to know Sonic is fast simply because you're not stopping every second?

I mean nobody is asking for the games to slow down, but to actually try to innovate with it's levels.

It matters because that's the character Sega puts across and it's the character I ultimately want to play as.

But since when have you now been playing as him? Have we been playing as a completely differnet character for the past 20 years?

The Sonic CD and Unleashed openings? They're awesome. So I want to be able to do that myself.

Me too, but I'm not willing to sacrifice decent level design to do it. Those are cutscenes, they literally have no bearing on the gameplay, and I think it's ludicrous to try and replicate everything in a cutscene to gameplay.

Again, I am not opposed to any ideas that would make this achievable without the boost, but at the same time I won't sacrifice my idea and my enjoyment based on appeals to tradition.

Will your enjoyment really be ruined simply because you can't do everything you see in a cutscene?

[Nepenthe]

Beyond the fact that I dislike the "cherrypick certain statements" out of a post technique of arguing, mostly because it takes a lot of time to format, I'm done with responding to you because it's also very clear that you're still not really comprehending anything I'm saying. The fact that you actually have the gall to accuse me of having deluded myself into thinking the modern games are somehow absolutely perfect when I've railed on various aspects of them plenty of times in the past makes it all the more clear you're actually not interesting in having an honest conversation, so fuck this shit, I'm not wasting my time with you anymore.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Kuzu]

Ok, I may have been out line when I said that, but it still doesn't change the fact that you're perception that Sonic needs to have a command to something he naturally can do, or that everything in cutscenes should be replicated in gameplay is no more flawed than my apparent argument. If you don't want to continue, fine, but don't act like I did anything wrong when I was merely pointing out the holes in your post.

Edited July 11, 2012 by The Batman

[PerfectChaos]

Guys...

[Indigo Rush]

Would I miss the boost? Yeah, kinda. I'm not as big of an advocate as I used to be, but the move is fun enough in its own right. I mean, holding down a button to blast through rings and robots is so satisfying, I can't really compare it to much else.

But if it were to go, I wouldn't kick and scream or anything like that. I just hope that if it is indeed removed, it's replaced with the Spindash, along with traditional rolling mechanics.

I still think boosting for uphill speed and rolling for downhill speed would be an okay compromise, but I dare not get all up in arms defending the idea. I just like to go with the flow and see where SEGA goes next with it. As long as it's fun, I'm good.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Indigo Rush

[Soniman]

I swear to christ if I'm fed that "all the modern games do is play themselves" line one more fucking time......

Edited July 11, 2012 by The Noodle

[Hybrid]

I would miss using the boost because I love blasting through stages, rings and badniks while screaming "FASTEST THING ALIVE!" but I certainly wouldn't cry about it if it was taken out.

Indigo Rush and I are on the same page with this if they take the Boost out just give us something to compensate for it, logiclly the Spin Dash and rolling mechanics.

[Phos]

(Doesn't really seem worth quoting anything specific) If you really want to emulate the Sonic CD intro the boost isn't the way to go about it, rather the way to go seems to me to be the peel out.

[Nepenthe]

Not really sure how substituting the Peel-Out would suffice. Honestly, I think the entire way Sonic has played needs a bit of an overhaul in order to truly achieve that instead of merely deciding between existing maneuvers. Being able to stick to surfaces and rebound off of them, as well as some limited aerial mobility, would be the first steps to making that happen.

[Phos]

Not really sure how substituting the Peel-Out would suffice. Honestly, I think the entire way Sonic has played needs a bit of an overhaul in order to truly achieve that instead of merely deciding between existing maneuvers. Being able to stick to surfaces and rebound off of them, as well as some limited aerial mobility, would be the first steps to making that happen.

The boost's impact on agility is primarily why I don't see it as a great option for allowing such scenarios to take place, mostly just needs something to get moving. Then there's credits bit versus the enemies. Those mosquito bots wouldn't be a threat of he could just shoop out of there. It'd be like in AC for Answer, if anyone launches missiles you could just overboost away from them.

[ZER0]

I would certainly miss my dear boost button or "SKADOOSH" button as I like like to call it. (credit to cobanermani456 for influencing that on me.)

To me, few things are more fun than plowing through enemies at the speed of sound!

SKAAAADOOOOSH!

In all seriousness, I really would miss going super fast, because to me, that's when sonic is the most fun.

[Chaos Warp]

I would certainly miss my dear boost button or "SKADOOSH" button as I like like to call it. (credit to cobanermani456 for influencing that on me.)

To me, few things are more fun than plowing through enemies at the speed of sound!

SKAAAADOOOOSH!

In all seriousness, I really would miss going super fast, because to me, that's when sonic is the most fun.

But you could accomplish going super fast by a spindash or through momentum physics.

Just saying.

[Nepenthe]

If the speed and satisfaction derived from between the two methods of gameplay is perfectly equatable, then there's no reason to bring back the Spin Dash or a heavy reliance on momentum to accelerate either.

[TheOcelot]

I can appreciate why the boost is liked. The fact it simulates going fucking fast is cool. But there are plenty of Sonic games that have been successful without the boost. So I don't think the boost would be that badly missed if it was dropped.

Here's a question; Could Sonic games progress without the boost and spindash? I.e.still be fast and fun. I am treading dangerously close to Sonic 1 territory here.

[Kuzu]

Well one is more involved, while the other is fairly simple. I'd rather do the former.

[Nepenthe]

Here's a question; Could Sonic games progress without the boost and spindash? I.e.still be fast and fun. I am treading dangerously close to Sonic 1 territory here.

I think most people would say that the Spin Dash and Boost are wholly unnecessary, but I personally would be even more frugal and say that rolling is also unnecessary for a "fast and fun experience" so long as a good physics system was in play and you had a control scheme robust enough to allow some basic acrobatic maneuvers to really take advantage of it.

[PerfectChaos]

The thing is, as much as I'd miss good ol' Boost, it's doing the franchise a lot of harm. Boost and platformer level design aren't compatible.

You know why people moan about games being 'chock-full of bottomless pits' even if they're not? Even if there are warning signs?

You know why the Classics are just as guilty of bottomless pits, yet don't get bashed for it?

It's because in the old games, you relied on the level design for speed. In platform-heavy moments, it was IMPOSSIBLE to pick up speed because there were no slopes. If Sonic Team didn't want you going fast in a certain place, you weren't going fast. In modern games it's the other way around - we can just boost everywhere, sometimes to our deaths. And some reviewers don't care that it's kinda THEIR fault for being incompetent and also ignoring the warning signs (I don't care what you say, they ARE helpful and CAN be seen before it's too late)

[Nepenthe]

The platforming areas in modern games are punctuated by several blatant design choices that indicate it's a terrible idea to boost through them without any idea of what you're doing. For one, you're always thrown into springs, walls, or slopes before reaching these areas in order to cancel your boost and slow you down. The camera is also pretty decent at orienting itself properly to these parts, allowing you to easily see any pits or obstacles around you. And then of course, blatant orange floating signs.

If you boost through a platforming area and die as a result of it, it's your fault. The fact that you can do this of your own free will doesn't place any blame on Sonic Team, and instead it smacks needing your hand to be held.

[Diogenes]

You know why the Classics are just as guilty of bottomless pits

Y'know they really, genuinely aren't. Most levels have very few, and many levels (most?) have none.

[Cobalt_Bolt]

To be honest if I would miss the boost or not I'd have to say it depends on how the game is designed. That is the best answer that I can give since I've played the older games as well as the current ones since I appreciate how they play.