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PerfectChaos

Would you miss the Boost?

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Y'know they really, genuinely aren't. Most levels have very few, and many levels (most?) have none.

Sonic CD has one, Sonic 1 has a handful (MZ, LZ, and SYZ have none), Sonic 2 had them in Wing Fortress, Chemical Plant, and basically had one in MCZ. I can't think of any in Sonic 3, and then Sonic & Knuckles had one in Flying Battery that you might not even see. That's all the ones I can remember.

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The thing is, as much as I'd miss good ol' Boost, it's doing the franchise a lot of harm. Boost and platformer level design aren't compatible.

You know why people moan about games being 'chock-full of bottomless pits' even if they're not? Even if there are warning signs?

You know why the Classics are just as guilty of bottomless pits, yet don't get bashed for it?

It's because in the old games, you relied on the level design for speed. In platform-heavy moments, it was IMPOSSIBLE to pick up speed because there were no slopes. If Sonic Team didn't want you going fast in a certain place, you weren't going fast. In modern games it's the other way around - we can just boost everywhere, sometimes to our deaths. And some reviewers don't care that it's kinda THEIR fault for being incompetent and also ignoring the warning signs (I don't care what you say, they ARE helpful and CAN be seen before it's too late)

Unless you stop on a platform and perform a Spin Dash jump or Spin Dash and skim to the next platform xD

I would actually kind of miss the boost, it's weirdly funny to me that Modern Sonic has too many overpowered skills. I like it.

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The boss of Spring Yard hovers over a bottomless pit. I also think Marble Garden has some bottomless pits too.

Ah yes, that boss. That's a bit of a grey area. On the other hand, Marble Garden Zone is a vertically looping level so I don't think that it can have bottomless pits.

If the point to the boost is exhilarating speed there are many other ways to go about that.

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Not really. It is a nice tool for speedrunning and an easy way to gain momentum but I think the spindash just does a better job. You can easily boost uphill or downhill or on even ground and it works on all of them. The use of spindash requires a bit more thinking since it's not always the best way to gain speed. Spinning while going downhill is a good option since your speed increases all the time but when you're on even ground or going uphill things get a bit different. Using spindash on even ground gives you a quick burst of speed but unless there is a downhill nearby, your speed will keep decreasing until you come to a complete halt. Same goes when going uphill. But if you just start walking and eventually running instead of performing a spindash, your speed won't decrease and you can keep going at max speed, thus making it the optimal choice on even ground. But when you have the boost, it's always the optimal choise since there really is no point in not using it when going up or down. I think the spindash just brings a bit more strategy to the games which I do appreciate.

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But you could accomplish going super fast by a spindash or through momentum physics.

Just saying.

I'm talking...SUPER DUPER HOLYCRAPSKADOOSH FAST

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There's no such thing as a platformer with no bottlomless pits
Oh, I'm sure there is somewhere. CD comes very close, after all.

On the other hand, Marble Garden Zone is a vertically looping level so I don't think that it can have bottomless pits.
The first act loops, but I don't think the second does. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have any pits anyway, though.

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Ah yes, that boss. That's a bit of a grey area. On the other hand, Marble Garden Zone is a vertically looping level so I don't think that it can have bottomless pits.

If the point to the boost is exhilarating speed there are many other ways to go about that.

Well, I took a look at some level maps on Retro and their appear to be some bottomless pits there, but considering the way they've been composited I don't think I'm reading them properly.

Also, equivocating the boost with other methods of gaining speed isn't a compelling argument; if such is true, we stand nothing to gain or lose with replacing it, so why even bother suggesting the other methods that are available?

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Exactly Diogenes; there isn't perfect equivocation in play, so implying modern proponents should be fine with destroying one of the key components that makes their favorite gameplay compelling to them is farcical if not disingenuous. It at least assumes the exhilaration the boost currently provides is comparable enough to other current methods of gaining speed for its proponents to simply not care when it goes away. It isn't.

Edited by Nepenthe

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Personally, I would. After a while of roaming in 3D, it was nice to see a new gameplay style enter the Zones. I like the Boost. It's one of my favorite moves since it moves so fast, ramming everything. However, I would be lying if I said it wasn't overpowered. I would like the Boost to slow down just a tiny bit, like 5% at most, and I would like a few enemies that are unaffected by the boost. You know, you need to use a different tactic.

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Exactly Diogenes; there isn't perfect equivocation in play, so implying modern proponents should be fine with destroying one of the key components that makes their favorite gameplay compelling to them is farcical if not disingenuous. It at least assumes the exhilaration the boost currently provides is comparable enough to other current methods of gaining speed for its proponents to simply not care when it goes away. It isn't.

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Unless I'm missing something it seems to me as thought the appeal of the boost is the speed, I'm not getting what's so specifically appealing about this ability.

People like seeing Sonic run fast.....

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Unless I'm missing something it seems to me as thought the appeal of the boost is the speed, I'm not getting what's so specifically appealing about this ability.

The appeal of the boost- at least to me- is the fact that I now have full control of my top speed and subsequently do not have to rely on environmental gimmicks- whether they be slopes or boosters- to achieve what should be naturally achievable by a character that is consistently toted through multiple venues as supersonic of his own accord. Of course the high speed is easily rewarding, but that is half the appeal; maintaining the flow of my top acceleration and powering through the given obstacles that, in turn, also help facilitate me continuing this flow, in a similar method to Rayman Origins, is also very satisfying.

As I said earlier, I would easily part with the boost if people were willing to replace it with something within this given ideal of having Sonic as a naturally speedy and acrobatic powerhouse, but most often the given replacement is merely classic mechanics and game flow. Not that there's anything wrong with this; I'm just merely tired of them and want something that I consider better.

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Hell, just to prevent the player from killing theirself in the platforming levels/sections, maybe boost should be disabled altogether for those situations.
If they didn't design levels like tightropes this wouldn't even be an issue...

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Do you have any suggestions?

Sure: Overhaul him completely as a Parkour enthusiast on crack. Slow Sonic down from boost speeds, but nonetheless keep his top speed maintainable through a normal run function. Allow him to freely vault, rebound off, and run up surfaces and enemies, and design the levels accordingly. Also, allow him some actual aerial mobility. He has absolutely none, and at the very least it would allow for easier manual aiming and a way to potentially recover from mistakes, especially if pits are to continue being a standard obstacle. If this is too idealistic and impossible, then take a page or ten out of Rayman Origins' book.

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Sonic actually had greater mobility in the air than on the ground in the classics.

I can't say that I'd be into a parkour system in a Sonic game. Maybe it could be done such that it doesn't impede momentum? I just love moving around in the classic games.

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It is a nice tool for speedrunning and an easy way to gain momentum but I think the spindash just does a better job. You can easily boost uphill or downhill or on even ground and it works on all of them. The use of spindash requires a bit more thinking since it's not always the best way to gain speed. Spinning while going downhill is a good option since your speed increases all the time but when you're on even ground or going uphill things get a bit different. Using spindash on even ground gives you a quick burst of speed but unless there is a downhill nearby, your speed will keep decreasing until you come to a complete halt. Same goes when going uphill. But if you just start walking and eventually running instead of performing a spindash, your speed won't decrease and you can keep going at max speed, thus making it the optimal choice on even ground. But when you have the boost, it's always the optimal choise since there really is no point in not using it when going up or down. I think the spindash just brings a bit more strategy to the games which I do appreciate.

I agree with this.

I think the boost should only be used in specific challenges. Like the Mach speed sections in Sonic 06 kind of idea, except you're boosting thru the entire level.

But I don't think the boost should be part of the main game levels. Only special stages maybe. It'd hopefully make both sides happy.

As long as you can't spam the spindash like SA1.

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Sure: Overhaul him completely as a Parkour enthusiast on crack. Slow Sonic down from boost speeds, but nonetheless keep his top speed maintainable through a normal run function. Allow him to freely vault, rebound off, and run up surfaces and enemies, and design the levels accordingly. Also, allow him some actual aerial mobility. He has absolutely none, and at the very least it would allow for easier manual aiming and a way to potentially recover from mistakes, especially if pits are to continue being a standard obstacle. If this is too idealistic and impossible, then take a page or ten out of Rayman Origins' book.
So is any of this incompatible with classic Sonic gameplay?

I mean, I'm not really against any of this. I'd want the Genesis mechanics integrated with it, but aside from that the only thing I would quibble over is what we mean by "top speed". Instead of looking at the rolling mechanics as the way to reach Sonic's top speed, I see it as a way to exceed it.

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