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Character Spin-offs


PerfectChaos

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To get turned away by a badly executed spin-off title that Sonic isn't even playable in is pretty dumb.
To be turned off by a series producing a shitty game is dumb? The fact that Sonic wasn't playable doesn't really change anything. Or rather, that they thought it was a good enough idea to bank an entire game on it, rather than just part of a game, arguably makes it worse.

Other characters used to take up a large portion of the gameplay. Sonic wasn't even playable in Shadow the Hedgehog and Tails Sky Patrol.
I don't see what pointing to two shitty spinoffs is supposed to prove.

That's not the point.
Really? Because...I think that was his point. We have had different characters, yes, but in the series' best days, they all shared the same core gameplay. Giving them wildly different gameplay has only hurt the series.

I don't see how stating that in one game at the start of the series he played like Sonic somehow even effects my point.
What is your point, anyway?

They weren't really secondary characters.
Yes they were.
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I demand a Steriod the Hedgehog original non-spin-off game...

All up for this. Screw boost2win, we need chaosdoomblast2win.

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It's not the characters that's the problem. It's how they're executed.

Well the public is stupid and thinks otherwise; you can make the best damn game there is, but if Shadow's on the cover and not Sonic, you just lost half of your sales right there.

To get turned away by a badly executed spin-off title that Sonic isn't even playable in is pretty dumb.

Getting mad because Sonic isn't playable in a Sonic game is dumb?

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It's not the characters that's the problem. It's how they're executed, and you answered why they complained right there:

Sonic wasn't even playable in Shadow the Hedgehog.

To get turned away by a badly executed spin-off title that Sonic isn't even playable in is pretty dumb.

Other characters used to take up a large portion of the gameplay. Sonic wasn't even playable in Shadow the Hedgehog and Tails Sky Patrol.

Maybe narrow-minded isn't the right phrase to use, but 'clueless' certainly is regarding posts like that.

That's not the point. The point is that from 1992-2006 there has been multiple playable characters, and each one introduced new people to the franchise. He may have had the same gameplay in Sonic 2, but he's still a different character. I don't see how stating that in one game at the start of the series he played like Sonic somehow even effects my point.

They weren't really secondary characters. In some games they held just as much importance as Sonic. That's not a good thing, but they were very important to the series back then. Yes, the games have been shallow and crappy. SEGA's Sonic games will still sell, no matter the mind-numbing quality.

Tails and Chip were playable in Sonic Unleashed, Metal was playable in episode 2, and there were many playables in Black Knight.

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Tails wasn't playable in Unleashed. There is no point in the game where you control him in any way.

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Chip and Tails were playable in loosest sense you can manage, and even then they make up about 3% of the game.

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You can't play as Tails in Unleashed; you controlled Sonic, manning the gun on the Tornado, while basically going on autopilot.

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You can't play as Tails in Unleashed; you controlled Sonic, manning the gun on the Tornado, while basically going on autopilot.

It's really ambiguous if you think about it.

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What is it that you are supposedly controlling Tails to do?

Shoot stuff down with the Tornado, which is actually what Sonic was doing, as Tails is just flying to the destination with the plane.

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I see another Shadow discussion.

Listen, the only way Shadow would actually be suitable for another game is if he pulled a Raiden and went from zero to hero in the eyes of a lot of people who hated him. And even then, you'll always have people who hate him out of their grudge. Despite people actually looking at Raiden in a more positive light, there are still a lot of gamers that have it etched in stone into their heads that Raiden will never be a good character no matter how much he has changed from his whiny self. Ever. It's closed-minded, and may make no sense but you're not always going to make people see that the character has changed for the better.

And mind you, Raiden was actually given a second chance at his own game and pulls it off because he plays differently from the Metal Gear Solid series he is a part of. Not exactly easy to do for the Sonic franchise when everyone plays pretty much the same as one another.

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Again, people play Sonic for Sonic-Like gameplay, not to play just as Sonic, but to play like Sonic.

they want to run FAST, collect rings, break badniks, jump in springs, roll loops and do that kind of shit.

not treasure hunt.

not fishing.

not control a girl at 5mph and use a hammer to hit the enemies.

not puzzle.

not quick time events.

not tetris minigames.

people play Sonic's friends expecting Sonic-like gameplay, if they don't play like Sonic, they get bashed by the general public and the critics, it's this simple.

people get a Sonic game expecting Sonic-like gameplay, rings, loops, springs and speed. and there is not a single word I would change in my statement.

Edited by Anti Alias
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Assuming the spin-off in question makes it blatant that it's basically a normal entry in the series in all but the character model you control, expecting the proper gameplay of a series from a spin-off misses the very point of what a spin-off is.

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For some reason I can't imagine the Chaotix out of a Ace Attorney Investigations gameplay :P

And I could see Amy being the main character of a Storybook game (Wizard of Oz anyone?)

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I suppose characters such as Shadow have some popularity, evidenced by the Shadow Generations mod. Plus, relatively new fans to the series often simply see him as a darker, cool Sonic (assuming they don't find out about/play his game)

Particularly in games like Mario and Sonic or Riders, where he was just there and looked awesome.

So despite many of the longtime fans disliking him, he MIGHT have a fair amount of fans.

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Wow at the closemindedness of some people.

"people play Sonic games to play Sonic-like gameplay" Ok sure fine. What does this have to do with this topic? The topic is about other characters having a spinoff game.

Sure hate Shadow the hedgehog for it being a crappy game if you must, but hating it because it doesn't play like a Sonic game is stupid. Newsflash it isn't a Sonic game, hence why it's called Shadow the hedgehog. If you wanna claim that SA was crap because it made you play as Big and do fishing I can somewhat see that point too, but to claim a game that isn't Sonic and is clearly not a traditional Sonic game, is bad because you play Sonic to play Sonic is a stupid statement.

By this logic Mario game lovers should hate Mario Party because it deviates soooo much from proper Mario gameplay.

Or you could look at this from somebody who actually has some sense point of view and understand that a spinoff game like Shadow is a gameSonic universe using characters from that universe yet isn't Sonic and isn't trying to be and if people have a problem with that they can screw off.

Perosnally I'd love to see some variety in the Sonic gameverse. We've had some hit and misses in the past but I think the Riders games (well the first anyways) was good and I actually didn't mind Shadow. I hate the storybook series but they just seem like a stupid idea to me and the gameplay chomps arse, but I really think SEGA should look into a bit of variety.

It seemed like they were going that route when they announced Sonic Chronicles; an RPG a genre nobody would expect Sonic to tread, and while that game was really, really REAAAAALLy terribble, I chalk that up to Bioware approaching the Sonic series with no respect for it at all.

But it seems ever since Sonic hit some lows with the crappy idea for a Werehog and some idiot fans were outspoken about Sonic games having "too many characters" and "too many diffferent gameplays", SEGA have taken it to heart and been cautious and we're left with Sonic-only games.

While they have been good games, I really think they should soon think about letting have some more characters back. I know this won't happen soon as Iizuka-san has stated recently (at all these Sonic events you lucky people get in your countries) that they initially had plans for other characters to have spinoff games but with the bad feedback from Shadow and fans on alternate gameplay that from now and in the near future they plan on only having Sonic playable...for now.

So that's disappointing seeing as they built up this awesome Sonic cast of characters and all we get to do is maybe see them turn up to talk to occasionally in games. As a fan of all the characters this is a bit disappointing.

Now while I can't see a character spinoff game happening anytime soon it doesn't mean I can't wish for one.

Personally the top of my list would be a game that completely changes the setting and things up. For this I'd love to see something like a Silver game where we get to play in the future and use some of those skills we got to play as in Sonic '06.

Silver's gameplay in that was super fun and I can see a lot of potentail to make him a really fun character to play as (assuming you're not a closeminded Sonic only person)

But at the same time I can't actually think of a story to go with this, so I'll state my other idea which is a Blaze game.

A Blaze game set in an alternate reality brings us a different backdrop and gives us a chance to see a Sonic world in a new way. Think of seeing alternate zones, have a parrallel "first" zone in Blazes game be Green Hill Valley zone. This game I can think of more things to make it work than I can a Silver game only because we've seen a little more of Blaze's life before. Have Marine be her sidekick, her Tails. Have Johnny and Whiskers be like her version of Metal Sonic and Eggman, and the majority of her world is zones spread out across islands; playing on the cat hating water ironic aspect of real life like how Sonic plays on the hedgehogs actually being slow ironic aspect of real life. For all the haters who want Sonic gameplay Blaze would play almost identically to Sonic, Boost (fire boost) and all, maybe giving her a higher jump and some fire based attacks. Essentially it would be Sonic only it's Blaze and in Blaze's world.

The other game I'd REALLY like to see is the one that has been mentioned a lot which is a Chatoix game. Make it with big areas to explore and find things utilising all the teams unique moves. Flesh out the Sonic world by visiting familiar locations and meeting up with characters. Hey even throw in Nack as a villian in the game who the Chaotix often clash with trying to follow his string of crimes and retrieve stolen things he's taken for their clients.

This is probably the best possible non-Sonic game idea out there and I would love to see something like this become a reality!

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I'd love to see a Shadow spin off. It would be much darker an mature than past games. It would have stuff like an alien invasion and Shadow finding out he has a connection to this aliens.

Also it would have new gimmicks such as riding vehicles and using weapons.

And to add to the mature theme of the game, Shadow and some other characters will actually say swear words at some points of the game.

What do you guys think? Pretty hardcore huh?

Oh wait.....

And that's why nobody aside from Sonic will even make an appearence as a playable character again in a Sonic game again, let alone have their own spinoff.

Sonic wasn't even playable in Shadow the Hedgehog.

To get turned away by a badly executed spin-off title that Sonic isn't even playable in is pretty dumb.

Yes he was, as long as you had a second controller. Actually, anyone that wasn't Black Doom's eye or Charmy was playable, I think.

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Sure hate Shadow the hedgehog for it being a crappy game if you must, but hating it because it doesn't play like a Sonic game is stupid. Newsflash it isn't a Sonic game, hence why it's called Shadow the hedgehog.
You have to be pretty damn thick to keep trotting this shit out. No, "Sonic" is not in the title, but it is still a part of the Sonic series. It also uses the Adventure gameplay as the basis for its gameplay; you're still running through loops, homing attacking and spin dashing like in previous Sonic games. Honestly if they had developed the concept from the ground up rather than making "Sonic with guns", it probably would've gotten (slightly) less hate and been a (slightly) better game.

Or you could look at this from somebody who actually has some sense point of view and understand that a spinoff game like Shadow is a gameSonic universe using characters from that universe yet isn't Sonic and isn't trying to be and if people have a problem with that they can screw off.
The sensible point of view: "Fuck you if you don't agree that tiny differences mean it's totally different".

But it seems ever since Sonic hit some lows with the crappy idea for a Werehog and some idiot fans were outspoken about Sonic games having "too many characters" and "too many diffferent gameplays",
They aren't "idiots" for saying the series has been trying to balance too many different kinds of gameplay. There are certainly things wrong with their complaints and how Sega has been handling the characters, but the series trying to be several different kinds of game at once has pretty consistently lead to being terrible at all of them, and it's an ass-backwards way to implement characters in the first place. You want multiple characters, build them from Sonic's gameplay, that way they're making one game at a time instead of 12.
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Newsflash it isn't a Sonic game, hence why it's called Shadow the hedgehog. If you wanna claim that SA was crap because it made you play as Big and do fishing I can somewhat see that point too, but to claim a game that isn't Sonic and is clearly not a traditional Sonic game, is bad because you play Sonic to play Sonic is a stupid statement.

No. It's a stupid statement (and it has been since March 8th, 2005) to claim that the Iizuka-seal-of-approval storyline sequel to Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes (which was built directly off of the latter) which was developed, sold and advertised as being the sequel to Sonic Heroes is not a Sonic game just because you like to pretend that that somehow gives your argument weight when you make ridiculous comparisons to the Mario Party series.

Which it wouldn't, even if the cosmos suddenly aligned and the game that finished the story arc for the two immediately preceding main-series titles somehow wasn't a part of the same series, because the game was still a steaming pile of shit regardless of what "series" it actually is a part of and regardless of what hypothetical "standards" you think it was supposed to be held to; and is almost certainly the reason why no other character will get spin-offs in the future.

Edited by Gilda
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Shadow isn't really a spinoff, its a Sonic game, where Shadow is the lead character and there is an unecessary focus on weapons. Take the weapons out and it would just be SA2-2: Shitty edition (given that its using Heroes' crappy engine).

And regarding spinoffs in general.

I wouldn't mind one, so long as its done properly and is nothing at all like Shadow the Hedgehog.

But before that, rewrite all the major characters so that people like them again and then maybe make them playable (with Sonic-like gameplay). If then a particular character is prooving popular, then take the seperating factor (e.g Tails' flight or Knux's gliding) and expand on it in a meaningful way and built a completely new gameplay engine if necessary to make the spinoff work as best as physically possible. Then make it absolutely blatantly obvious that its a spinoff and not ambiguous like ShtH.

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Knuckles really should get a combat/exploration focused, Mario-ish paced adventure, a bit like what the Werehog attempted but much better.

And as for Shadow, one gameplay factor that I think could stay really fun and easily be kept fresh is the idea of using stuff as weapons. Let us use everything as a weapon. Signposts, deck chairs, baseball bats, crates, windscreen wipers, small children... EVERYTHING. And also, Sonic Team, make much of the environment destructible. I wanna chop down trees, blow up cars and smash windows. THAT is badass. Not guns.

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I'd like to see a Knuckles spin off, but obviously that's never going to happen since SEGA doesn't give two shits about Knuckles, Amy and other important side characters. Or it's because of how crappy ShtH was.

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  • 7 years later...

It would be cool to see Cream in a Chao Garden game.

Maybe it could be a game where you can take care of both Chao and Wisps.

Maybe you can even mix them together to make, I dunno, Chisps?

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18 minutes ago, Nintenboi said:

Maybe it could be a game where you can take care of both Chao and Wisps.

Maybe you can even mix them together to make, I dunno, Chisps?

Wow you bumped a pretty old thread. Speaking of Chao Wisp forms I did try designing a few in the past. It's kind of tricky due to the weird shapes used, and I had to keep the two eyes as it looked too strange with only one.

Spoiler

bYFzjXU.png

 

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21 minutes ago, Nintenboi said:

It would be cool to see Cream in a Chao Garden game.

Maybe it could be a game where you can take care of both Chao and Wisps.

Maybe you can even mix them together to make, I dunno, Chisps?

It's a pity that she has never been playable in a game with chao gardens (she has been but not the Adventure-like ones); she's the chao raising character and has never been in a chao raising game (excluding a tiny chao garden minigame), weird.

Anyway, I have my own idea of a Cream spin-off that sadly will never happen. It's a more traditional game (2D) with classic level design, maybe a bit slower-paced than the main Sonic games; as you break some badniks and release the animals inside, you can give those animals to Cheese (in real time during the gameplay) to give him different abilities, and change his look too. Kinda like Sonic meets Kirby.

Story-wise, I'd like somethig that involves Gemerl and the gizoids, plus some new villain that aside of doing the typical evil stuff, conquering and destroying, tries to hurt her and her friends on the emotional side.

Though with Sega's current interpretation of the character (overly pacifist, incapable of fighting), this won't happen for sure.

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