On my personal enjoyment of older sonic games vs. modern ones...

[Reading]

You haven't played Adventure 1 or 2006? Exactly which modern games have you played? I'll tell you more about each one if you want.

[Blazey Firekitty]

You haven't played Adventure 1 or 2006? Exactly which modern games have you played? I'll tell you more about each one if you want.

Play a little of Adventure 1, but never all the way through.XD Haven't played 06 at all yet. As far as modern games go, I've played Adventure 2 Battle, the Playstation 2(Low def version, same one that was on the Wii) version of Sonic Unleashed, Advance 2, and both Rush games.

I don't think Chronicles counts since it's an RPG and not a platformer, but I played that too.

And you can give more info if you want.

[Dark Qiviut]

I've played Sonic games since late-1991, but I must say, I prefer Modern Sonic over Classic Sonic.

I loved Sonic 1 and 2 (Genesis) when I was a kid, but hated Sonic 2 (GG). Then Sonic 3 arrived in 1994, and I began playing it...until that barrel hit. I couldn't pass it for years, and I just gave up on it. I actually hated the game because of the barrel at one time.

Then, Sonic & Knuckles was released, and I enjoyed it. Then I tried S3&K, but as Knuckles. I began loving the game again, but only as Knuckles. Yes, there were some puzzles to solve, too, but they weren't as confusing as the barrel. To this day, I still think the Knuckles gameplay is far superior over the Sonic (& Tails) gameplay in that game.

I loved the latter Sonic games, especially Triple Trouble and 3D Blast. Then as the years progressed, I started losing a lot of interest towards Sonic. I no longer cared about the series anymore, the games, or the TV shows.

...Until Sonic Adventure.

I noticed some gameplay of Sonic Adventure at my nearest GameStop and suddenly became HOOKED! I finally bought it, and I LOVED IT! Since then, it has become my most favorite Sonic game. Not just for the fun gameplay (even the Big gameplay, once you get used to the controls), but for also bringing me back to Sonic, too.

A couple of year later, Sonic Adventure 2 was released, and I immediately became attached to it. Great character development, gameplay, story, and creative music. The soundtrack from SA2 is my second-most favorite of all the games, Sonic CD (American) being the top. SA2 is responsible for why I currently follow the games today: the characters.

To cut to the chase, I prefer the Modern games more are for several reasons.

1. The characters: In the Classics, we could only guess what their personalities were. With the Modern games, we know what their personalities were. I feel that the series is a little more alive knowing the characters can interact with one another, both emotionally and VERBALLY.

2. The Modern games feel a lot more complete as a universe. The Classic games had surreal, colorful environment, and there were a lot of animals. But what about the humans. Surely, Robotnik wasn't the ONLY one in Sonic 'verse. The addition of more humans and more anthropomorphic characters interacting with one another in the Modern games no longer made the series feel empty world-wise.

2. IMO, most of the Classics aren't as fun as they used to be. After finally completing the Sonic (& Tails) gameplays in 2000, I began playing the Classic games repeatedly, almost as often as the Modern games. Sonic 2, Sonic 1 (Game Gear), Sonic CD after finally buying it and the SEGA CD in 1999, and so on. But when I played the games again not long ago...I no longer had fun. The games felt predictable, and I felt like I was dragging on the game, as if I was playing them by force. The only Classic games that I still love a LOT are Spinball, 3D Blast, CD, and Triple Trouble. (I still love Chaotix a lot, but haven't played it in years, unfortunately. ) Whereas for the Modern games, I still get a lot of enjoyment playing them. Even Heroes I loved playing, despite feeling disappointed the second time around. I rather play ShtH over S3&K, personally.

Edited May 31, 2009 by Dark Qiviut

[lounge]

IMO, most of the Classics aren't as fun as they used to be.

But when I played the games again not long ago...I no longer had fun. The games felt predictable, and I felt like I was dragging on the game, as if I was playing them by force.

Couldn't have said it any better. I've always felt like I should be forced to play and enjoy the classics. I now realize how stupid that was of me. No game should be expected to be loved by everyone. Ocarina of Time is my favorite game. There are people out there that have said "that's just not my kind of game." And I'm fine with it. Even I'll admit, I've been playing OOT recently, and I've noticed it's starting to lose its magic. 10 years ago it was the pinnacle of my life.

I can still play SA2, heroes, and shadsy, and have fun. I play Sonic 2, and I get bored after 10 minutes. I don't blame the game. I mean, it was made in a time where people were new to these 16 bit games. It's been 17 years. Game design expectations are highter, and people just may not have the patience to enjoy those kind of games anymore.

[Phos]

What "expectations" might those be?

[lounge]

What "expectations" might those be?

Faster paced gameplay and better graphics.

If they remade Sonic 2. They'd need to tweak the gameplay to make it faster and a lot more solid. The design would also have to drastically change. Make the paths longer and the environments bigger to compliment the faster and improved physics. Remove sections that were looped thru out the levels. The Casion Night is a perfect example of carbon copying sections. As well as Oil Ocean. The Sonic 2 levels kind of have this enclosed feeling. Re-arrange the music completely to get rid of that outdated sound quality. Add a bunch of new sound effects. Add beautiful lighting effects to the environments and backgrounds to give off a new vibe. Fix Tails's A.I.

Come up with a new concept all together for the special stages. Sonic Rush's special stages are basically a better version of sonic 2's. It'd be nice to see a new concept.

Edited May 31, 2009 by lounge

[Solid SOAP]

Sonic 2 holds up just fine in this day and age. In Bionic Commando, a far more outdated NES game, can be remade with newer graphics and music and nothing more (Well, besides the new bosses and the new final level), than so can Sonic 2.

[lounge]

Sure, it still plays fine in this day and age. But the game just isn't exciting enough for me to really love. Personally I'd love to play a recreated, remastered version of Sonic 2, on the go. I don't believe in that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude.

[Sean]

I'm rarely, if ever, a fan of remakes unless the original source is hard to obtain legitimately. For starters, I usually find the most aesthetic appeal in the original version of a game, despite how pretty it looks. I dig Klonoa Wii's graphics, but I think I adore the original's storybook-like charm the most. There's also the appeal of making such a game look and feel good in light of the hardware's limitations.

Then again I don't care that much for Sonic 2, so cocks.

[Zander_Darklight]

I would have to say that the classics are still a little more fun to play for me than the modern games. Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with the newer games, in fact to me I find most of the later day levels in unleashed very challenging. But there is still something about being able to finish the game in 15 to 20 minutes (without super emeralds because i suck at those levels) That makes you feel good. On the other hand, the Sonic levels on Sonic adventure 2 have always been some of my favorite levels to replay but I sold my gamecube in favor of a xbox 360 so I really don't have any choice but S3&K being its my favorite of the 16-bit era.

[Phos]

Faster paced gameplay and better graphics.

If they remade Sonic 2. They'd need to tweak the gameplay to make it faster and a lot more solid. The design would also have to drastically change. Make the paths longer and the environments bigger to compliment the faster and improved physics. Remove sections that were looped thru out the levels. The Casion Night is a perfect example of carbon copying sections. As well as Oil Ocean. The Sonic 2 levels kind of have this enclosed feeling. Re-arrange the music completely to get rid of that outdated sound quality. Add a bunch of new sound effects. Add beautiful lighting effects to the environments and backgrounds to give off a new vibe. Fix Tails's A.I.

Come up with a new concept all together for the special stages. Sonic Rush's special stages are basically a better version of sonic 2's. It'd be nice to see a new concept.

I hope you realize that if you increase Sonic's speed and scale up the environments, you have a zero sum gain. If it's a side scroller, that just makes it harder to play because hazards are going to be on the screen for less time.

I don't know what you're on about about recycling sections of levels, unless you're talking about the 128 by 128 chunks the level were made out of, and I'm curious what you find to be wrong with Sonic 2's physics.

You have some strange priorities when it comes to games being fun for you, if Genesis music quality and graphics are really preventing you from enjoying a game like that.

[lounge]

I hope you realize that if you increase Sonic's speed and scale up the environments, you have a zero sum gain.

Not necessarily. The levels in Sonic 2 were a little too enclosed in the first place. Which is why I mentioned that they should redesign the environments so that they can compliment the faster engine gameplay. It's not only about faster speed. It's also about more advanced animations and effects. Don't you think that would feel a lot more exciting. It's not like the gameplay in Sonic 2 can't be topped.

that just makes it harder to play because hazards are going to be on the screen for less time.

Then they should be careful not to place unavoidable obstacles in your path.

I don't know what you're on about about recycling sections of levels, unless you're talking about the 128 by 128 chunks the level were made out of.

What do you mean? Nobody likes to play thru recycled sections of a level repeatedly. It's not like the design of Sonic 2 is perfect. In fact, I heard they lost a few months of development time because they were working on another game, when sega interrupted them, saying that they needed another sonic. I can understand that they had to reuse sections. Considering they had one level designer, while half the team wasn't communicating well.

I'm just saying, in this day and age, you'd have to fix that issue in a remake.

and I'm curious what you find to be wrong with Sonic 2's physics.

Nothing. I'm sure it was superior for genesis standards. The physics just lack the intensity that current handhelds can offer.

Genesis music quality and graphics are really preventing you from enjoying a game like that.

It'd be nice if those parts could be remastered. It's 2009. Genesis music quality is kind of grating.

[Sean]

The physics of the current handheld games annoy me because Sonic speeds up way too much when jumping, this is pretty noticeable in Sonic Advance 3, which attempted to return to the first game's emphasis on platforming, but the designers forgot that Sonic Advance 2 physics don't complement platforming segments very well! *DON*

I don't think the Genesis games' physics are problematic, I don't see any other 2D Sonic game doing any better of a job.

[Phos]

Not necessarily. The levels in Sonic 2 were a little too enclosed in the first place. Which is why I mentioned that they should redesign the environments so that they can compliment the faster engine gameplay. It's not only about faster speed. It's also about more advanced animations and effects. Don't you think that would feel a lot more exciting. It's not like the gameplay in Sonic 2 can't be topped.

So basically you want Advance 2 HD. You could have just said so.

Then they should be careful not to place unavoidable obstacles in your path.

Actually, it doesn't even need to be a hazard, anything in you're way will bring you to a halt.

What do you mean? Nobody likes to play thru recycled sections of a level repeatedly. It's not like the design of Sonic 2 is perfect. In fact, I heard they lost a few months of development time because they were working on another game, when sega interrupted them, saying that they needed another sonic. I can understand that they had to reuse sections. Considering they had one level designer, while half the team wasn't communicating well.

I'm just saying, in this day and age, you'd have to fix that issue in a remake.

No, I mean I can't think of any repeated sections. There are repeated set pieces, if that's what you're talking about, but every game has those. I'm surprised you care so much about repeated sections of levels, Super Mario 64 is chock full of this. First star in the game, climb to the top of the mountain. Second Star in the game, climb to the top of the mountain again, but with a non standard time limit.

[lounge]

So basically you want Advance 2 HD. You could have just said so.

How is that Advance 2?

Super Mario 64 is chock full of this. First star in the game, climb to the top of the mountain. Second Star in the game, climb to the top of the mountain again, but with a non standard time limit.

I was talking about repeating sections of a level. The comparison you just made doesn't match up with Sonic 2's. The game doesn't even have a mission mode. Super Mario 64's level design is fun and free roaming, so it didn't really matter if you had to go thru the same route to get a different star. You could always experiment. Like try shooting yourself up the mountanin with the cannon. Or find a secret warp wall.

[Reading]

I don't think Sonic needs to be fast to be exciting. He doesn't necessarily need to be running fast to pull off all these extreme impossible stunts and have it look totally awesome. I have a profound dislike for Sonic Advance 2 (it's my least favorite Sonic game), but the neat action sequences in the Adventure games, 2006, and Unleashed capture me every time. Particularly in 2006, because, as I mentioned in the Homing Attack thread, Sonic smashing into the enemy produces a more realistic, metallic bang that really gets me pumped up for the action.

Not to rain on lounge's parade, of course. Just stating my feelings.

[yUnG MuLa]

current sonic games need more focus on platforming and less speed.

[SuperStingray]

I don't think the problem is so much the overuse of speed as an imbalance with platforming. The biggest problem in Unleashed is that while speed was balanced with platforming, they were seperated into two entirely different styles of gameplay, ruining the flow in the process. What I think a Sonic game should do is encourage speed but still provide obstacles to challenge you and provide variety in gameplay without needing to create entirely different forms to do so.

[lounge]

^ I agree. Pole swinging, grind, bungee jumping, street boarding, etc. should all be implemented into sonic style gameplay. Variey is great.