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Legosi (Tani Coyote)

Orchestral Final Boss or Rock?

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I'd like a mixture of the two. Orchestral makes it more dramatic and makes it heavier in tension. Rock makes it epic, and gives you more encouragement. I'd say it'll start with orchestral, and after a while, go to rock.

Sort of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eFI0UFfAJE

That's not even close to being orchestral...

But I see what you're getting at.

Edited by Solkia-kun

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That's not even close to being orchestral...

But I see what you're getting at.

That's not even close to being orchestral...

But I see what you're getting at.

Of course. Just trying to get a point across in the best way I can. ^_^;

Also, I want CHARACTER THEMES for battles. You know, like fighting Shadow with "All Hail Shadow" or "Throw it All Away."

I always felt that having the character themes for boss battle would've worked out well. I was hoping to hear a remix of E.G.G.M.A.N in Generations.

That's just me. :P

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I rather prefer Orchestral in the long run. Ever since the Genesis games, I've had the idea of the Final Boss themes being all about build-up and emphasizing danger and despair. (Sonic 2 in particular, damn you no rings!)

So Orchestral really does the best to drive those feelings home for me. I often get shivers if a theme is done just right for the climax of a song, and that's an amazing feeling.

Honestly,I hate most of the rock used in Final Boss themes, especially if they're lyrical. I think Live and Learn was the only one to do this right, because the battle itself is really urgent and there's a lot going on so you're more focused on dodging shit than listening to the words.

Edited by KoA

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Gonna go with a blend of the two, orchestral rock is the way to go. Hell, it's my favorite music genre (or "symphonic metal" for the term I've become familiar with), and it makes pretty much ANYTHING more epic. If I can think of an amazing orchestral battle theme, 99% of the time I'll say it would be better with electric guitars accompanying it. Same goes for a lot of rock/metal songs, adding an orchestra makes it sound even cooler.

Basically, orchestral rock is the type of music that really shouts "LET'S KICK SOME ASS" like no other. That's what I look for in the Sonic boss fights. Start off dramatic and threatening, and then move into the adrenaline-pumping orchestral rock tunes.

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I prefer just plain ol' orchestral, and find that the best examples of the genre to be able properly convey almost any conceivable emotion that would be relevant to a final battle beyond simply "epic", and to move between the extreme highs and lows absolutely beautifully. I just wish the orchestral pieces relevant to the final battle weren't retreads of previous songs in the game, and instead were their own proper pieces denoted specifically to the actual fight.

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I prefer just plain ol' orchestral, and find that the best examples of the genre to be able properly convey almost any conceivable emotion that would be relevant to a final battle beyond simply "epic", and to move between the extreme highs and lows absolutely beautifully. I just wish the orchestral pieces relevant to the final battle weren't retreads of previous songs in the game, and instead were their own proper pieces denoted specifically to the actual fight.

Was Colors's's Final Boss Part 1 completely original? I thought it was, but then they switched to Reach for the Stars when you started winning.

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Was Colors's's Final Boss Part 1 completely original? I thought it was, but then they switched to Reach for the Stars when you started winning.

I'm going to have to listen to it again as I don't actually remember. But I think it was.

And while it does switch to Reach for the Stars to a little of my chagrin, ironically I like that version better than the Super Happy Fun Time vocal version. xP

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I'll put in my two cents. I really enjoy both of them. Though some are better than others, as we said we have to do it right. My beef is with Perfect Dark Gaia. It's an orchestra version of Endless Possibilities right? No. It's a synthisisied version. You had a flipping orchestra do a good bit of the music but when you needed an orchestra you did it on keyboard? This is what I mean by doing it right. If you want an orchestra, use a real orchestra! You want a rock theme? Use a theme you haven't been using on every map screen and cutscene.

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Like others have said, it depends on the style of the game, the tone which is used...so I actually like both even if one is better than the other sometimes, I also like when we have a mixture of both styles. Techno is quite good too, I think it worked quite well in Zero Gravity where it also a had a mix of Orchestra included in the final boss, overall I actually like both Orchestra and rock best (and also Orchestra Rock) although I think I might prefer rock a bit more.

Edited by C.J

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Just whatever fits the game. But by default I have to go with orchestrated because at least it gives us a new song whereas the rock ones have always been just the unchanged theme. Prefered form is Phase 1: generic "you're fucked" theme, Phase 2: orchestrated theme song with a To Victory feel to it. Unleashed, Colors and 06 got it right.

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I don't think genre matters, honestly. If you can make it as fitting as possible and work, it's going to be awesome. If someone showed me Live and Learn before SA2 without any context of "this is a final boss song," I probably wouldn't have believed it. Yet in context with playing with the dialogue, setting, and everything else, it feels epic and "this is it." Orchestrals can do the same wonders of course. I mean it's more common, but it's common because it's obviously the genre go-to for anything cinematic (which you want your climax to be).

Personally, I'd like something out of the box. If you can get my blood pumping with some mexican stand-offish western music and make it fit, the more power to you (hi Kid Icarus: Uprising).

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what is this i dont even

I prefer orchestral, because most of the rock is sooooooo fucking cheesy.

It is and let me explain why. I love orchestra and classical music. I listen to Mozart on daily basis. I also like Rock POP and different kinds of electronic music. Heck I like everything if it's well done. I am audiophile. I listen only to FLACs on my audio equipment. (I listen to MP4 but only from phone when I am in the bus etc. MP3 make my ears hurt) and I love music with depth. Solaris Phase 2 is great because when I listen to it I can hear it. It's pleasure. I hear explosions of instruments, guitar, drums, violins everything is in harmony and at the same time none of the instruments is less important than the other.Perfect Dark Gaia was good but nothing more.The Core from Zero Gravity was great!And now we have Egg Nega Wisp. I was really hyped to hear it and then:.. I can't hear what I hear when listening to Solaris Phase 2. Violin takes whole part and most of the time we have absolute silence with Violins, drums are neglaced and the track is trying to build something up, the suspence but terribly fails at trying.It's terrible and compared to previous final boss tracks is juat plain bland and uninteresting.

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cool story bro

I still think it blows Unleashed out of the water.

With what? Cheap Violins and no depth? And you are stating it like your opinion is only true one with this "Cool story bro" phrase up there. It's bland and cheap for any audiphile like me.

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With what? Cheap Violins and no depth? And you are stating it like your opinion is only true one with this "Cool story bro" phrase up there. It's bland and cheap for any audiphile like me.

What depth are you talking about?

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I think a contrast to the game's main theme and/or soundtrack composition would work the best, as when you hear it begin to play, you'd hear the difference and separates the battle from the rest of the bosses in the regard that it isn't what you'd expect of a normal boss, or what you've been hearing this whole time. This makes the boss fight much more interesting and in the long term, more memorable.

Another good example of how this contrast can effect the intensity, memorability, and/or "OH MY GOOOOOD" factor, let's take the theme of Fist of the North Star, Ai wo Torimodose (AKA You wa Shock), and look at two versions of it:

which we will assume is the main theme. And then you have a metal composition of the same song with lyrics, which we will assume is the final boss theme. The difference is dramatic, both in describing how different the sounds of the songs are as well as showing just why the final boss is the final boss; strong and powerful. Even if you flip the two songs around, the difference is still as dramatic as it was, although the song may represent different things while orchestrated.

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I would really have to say Orchestral on this one. I always got the sense that it gave off a more serious and powerful vibe then rock variations could ever make.

I think I would prefer Rock music in the actual levels over Final Boss music, really.

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With what? Cheap Violins and no depth? And you are stating it like your opinion is only true one with this "Cool story bro" phrase up there. It's bland and cheap for any audiphile like me.

Thanks for telling me how I sounded, bro. I had no idea that I would come off as a dick when I was blatantly being a dick.

I said "cool story bro" because no amount of boring music theory or recants of your past experiences or horses you've named Banjo is going to make me hate one of my favorite songs from the series. I think it blows Unleashed out of the water with "being a cool song in general", and "not making me think of some lame Dragonball Z song".

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I find it ridiculous how this is treated as a black and white "rock or orchestra" debate like one is more or less a bad fit than the other. Sonic has been through just about EVERY FUCKING GENRE and yet some don't fit?

Really, the final boss theme should be which ever is appropriate. Not on which genre you like more, which is really what I'm hearing through most of the topic, but hidden behind different words. A good thumb would be this: the more majestic, mythical/otherworldly, or grandiose the foe and setting is, the more you should lean to orchestra; the more intense, chaotic, and grim (and YMMV, technological) the boss and setting, the more you could lean towards rock or metal. And even that's loosely laid out because you could forgo either in favor of genres such as techno, industrial, ambient (for those REALLY eerie bosses) or any other genre that fits the scene. There a lot of boss themes out there to pay mind to how they fit.

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