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PerfectChaos

How to make the main game last longer?

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Again, Sonic Colors is a 3D modern Sonic-only game.

And how would it be more cost effective to tack on another gameplay style- which again includes a new model, different animations, different physics, maneuvers, and collision systems, new levels, new music, and the cutscenes and writing to compensate- than to simply build an entire game in either one of the styles?

As much as I love Colours, it's mostly 2D.And Classic was just a heavily modified Modern Sonic, right?I'm pretty sure overall it would have been much more hassle to create 9 more Modern Sonic stages. I don't think you understand the scale of each level, the insane amount of glitch-testing required, the architecture etc. (I don't mean this in a rude way btw)Oh, and your collision, music, cutscenes, writing and new levels arguments don't even stand, because it's the same with Modern Sonic.

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Why exclude Shadow from being playable on the basis of him being too similar to Sonic if you aren't going to significantly differentiate the rest of the cast from Sonic anyway? Besides, Shadow has his own unique quirks: Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, hovering abilities with his shoes, and an affinity for vehicles. All of these could be used to differentiate him from Sonic enough to warrant his existence in any game.

If Shadow really gets unique moves like Chaos Blast, vehicles to use and things like that, I'll welcome him being playble along with the rest. In that case he fits into what I said about other characters varying the gameplay. I just meant that in some games he played very much like Sonic and if he does I find other characters and their gameplay variants more interesting. If he's as unique as everyone else, I'd really enjoy him being there. Unlike many people seem to do, I quite like a game with a lot of different characters to choose from.

As much as I love Colours, it's mostly 2D.And Classic was just a heavily modified Modern Sonic, right?I'm pretty sure overall it would have been much more hassle to create 9 more Modern Sonic stages. I don't think you understand the scale of each level, the insane amount of glitch-testing required, the architecture etc. (I don't mean this in a rude way btw)Oh, and your collision, music, cutscenes, writing and new levels arguments don't even stand, because it's the same with Modern Sonic.

I think it's really underappreciated at the moment here how much work has to go into a game like Generations before it's flashing over your TV screen. As Perfect Chaos said, the stages, the enemies, gimmicks and characters have to be created and programmed, the physics need to work and all those shiny little graphic details don't get to be there on their own. A lot of people spend a lot of time and work in making the game as it is in the end. It's easy sitting there comfy on your couch and saying 'they should just make more stages'. The stages don't make themselves, and certainly not quickly or without costing them another good deal of money they first need to have.

Then, also earlier games didn't really have more stages. Sonic games, since the classic times, usually have seven worlds with two to three stages and a boss, followed by maybe one final stage and a final boss. Also games that take a lot of time to complete entirely don't have a lot more stages than that, even if they don't follow this concept. SA2 has 30 stages (counting out the final story), every gameplay type gets 10 and they're devided between two characters of that gameplay type. Still, this game takes a lot of time to fully complete, because of the many missions that take just the same stage and give you a different objective. Heroes has the classic seven worlds/two stages, but four variations of them, one for each team. That makes it feel like there are more stages, although many parts of the stages are the same for all teams or differ just slightly or are left out for some teams. Sonic Unleashed's townpeople missions also don't give you new stages really. They are variations of the normal acts, with slightly changed layout and an objective added. Collect rings, defeat a certain number of enemies, find something. If you compare it with other games, Generations has quite a lot of stages really, nine Classic and nine Modern stages, plus the challenge missions. It isn't really shorter than the others.

But... It is easier. I S-ranked two thirds of the game on my first playthrough, including the final boss. That's... not quite how I think it's supposed to be. Unleashed's difficulty was a lot higher and increased throughout the game, and most of us will have surely gone game over a few times in Eggmanland and the final boss fight. While some argue that difficulty was too high in Unleashed, I still think it was better than in Generations. It gave you a challenge, it was hard to beat and in the end, after you did beat it, it was satifying to have made it. Generations made it too easy, you didn't have to attempt a stage a few times to get through, or replay a level you're good at to get enough lives to get through the final boss. You hardly ever loose a life and if you don't think you have enough, you can buy them at the skills shop. I think in a way Generations feels so short to people because it's so quick and easy to get through. You don't need more stages. A few extra missions like various games had them are fun and can be a good addition. But make the game more challenging, that way people naturally spend more time on playing through it.

On a different note, I kinda doubt that right now the games could get much longer than they are, simply because of technical limitations. A double layered DVD (like the Xbox 360 uses) can fit 9 GB and that's it. Maybe they can add a few more stages or bonus stuff, but then the disc is, quite plainly, full. We'll probably see the next generation of consoles soon that can handle more, but do we really need it? I have many hundered hours of playtime recorded on all my older Sonic games and it's still counting. If a game is good and fun, it doesn't matter if it has a stage more or less. It matters if you can still play it after having seen every corner of its stages and unlocked everything you could, found all collectables and got all A/S-ranks. It matters if you still smile when you start the game. In my case, for all Sonic games I own, that still works, no matter how many stages they have. Repaly value doesn't depend on the number of stages... or how many bucks you paid on the game.

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Making a Sonic sandbox would pretty much instantly make it longer. Sandbox games have INSANE replay value (see: the good Spider-Man games, Just Cause 2) and are generally fun as hell. Imagine being able to explore the entirety of one of your standard classic Sonic islands (South, Westside, Angel) in 3D, moving from area to area to engage in missions (similar to what Amazing Spider-Man with missions) that are essentially your standard Sonic zones.

So say, the giant world map would be made up of six different zones, each with their own designs and music, and etc: a standard tropical jungle area to start off in, a fiery, volcanic area, an icy area, a carnival/casino-type area, a mountainous area, and then Eggman's base. Each area has collectables, enemies, missions, and cool easter eggs/secrets to find.

The world would fit really well with The Cheese's Web Rush-type Homing Action/Attack, along with fascilitating Tails and Knuckles gameplay easily.

It could also facilaite Shadow, Blaze, Amy, and others gameplay.

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Sega needs to brainstorm on how to make a game longer, but not so long that people will stop playing it and give the babies another so-called "reason" to cry. C'mon, do people really want to invest as much time in a single Sonic game as Darksiders or Final Fantasy? Maybe some obsessors want to, but most would probably say no.

In Sonic Adventure 2, it was long in a different way. There are secrets to find. Remember the Air Necklace and its importance? You almost couldn't beat the game without it. and it was also hard to find if you didn't know exactly where it was. I found it by accident, not even knowing it was there.

If the next Sonic game is longer, than I want a reason to keep coming back.

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C'mon, do people really want to invest as much time in a single Sonic game as Darksiders or Final Fantasy?
If it's fun. Trying to match an RPG would be pretty insane, tho'.

and [the air necklace] was also hard to find if you didn't know exactly where it was. I found it by accident, not even knowing it was there.
???

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Considering basically everything in a treasure hunting level is found completely unintentionally, including the shards themselves, finding something like the air necklace seems like a natural consequence of the process of elimination needed to find gems (at least until you start getting a feel for their common spawning spots). Considering it's basically impossible to miss it before you've finished the mines for the first time, though, I wouldn't exactly say it's an effective means of extending the game even in an artificial sense.

On the flipside, the upgrades you did have to intentionally look for usually meant completely defying the pacing of the level (as opposed to, say, a typical Genesis game where secret passages could still double as a means of progression in addition to having a Special Stage warp and/or a bunch of monitors inside), and the upgrades you did get in return were either boring or useless (magic hands, the splash damage upgrade for tails/eggman) or just generic keycards for more secret areas that weren't even guaranteed to be worth the trouble (visors for Knux/Rouge, flame somersault and its equivalents, fucking Mystic Melody). If there's any inspiration you should take out of SA2 for game length, secret areas and upgrades certaintly isn't it.

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Treasure hunting was only an example. And yes, it needed improvement in Sonic Adventure 2 and every other game it played a main focus in.

My point was that Sega needs to find ways to keep gamers in Sonic games longer without making those ways seem like filler. I'd welcome some additional characters, better 2-player battles or co-op missions, or just plain racing.

I don't know how many times me and my cousin raced each other on 2-player mode in Sonic Adventure 2. If there was anything that kept us in that game, that was it. Good times.

Edited by UltDevilDoom

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* Get rid of that stupid boost to win gameplay for good

* Add more playable Characters (at least 12)

* Open worlds

* Longer and deeper custcenes.

* much thicker,plot

Do all this or sega becomes another souless maker of dumb licenced games based on Sesame Street, Ice Age, Bratz, Planet Sheen, etc.

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Unless they're all so slightly different as to make having them in pointless, I don't see how they could include 12 characters unless they go with terrible alternate gameplay.

And there's nothing I like more in my platformers than long-ass cutscenes.

Edited by Ekaje

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12 characters and absurdly long cutscenes just sounds like padding to me. Besides I think most of us would rather see about 4 well developed characters than 12 characters who would be poorly implemented, or at best pallette swaps considering time and budget etc.

Not quite sure where the dumb licensed game comparison is coming from either...

Edited by Semi-colon e

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I think that leads to a certain concept named "game loop", which definites a repeating sequence of actions throughout the game, and gives it replayability. A simple loop such as "racing-winning gears-more racing" would do the trick. Some would say the answer is unlockables, which already featured in major titles. But they didn't seem work so well.

So I think it's multiplayer with unlockables. The ultimate solution with both good replayability and low budgets.

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I personally enjoy when my sonic games can be summed up as GOTTA GO FAST!

Maybe I'm the problem with the fanbase. :/

I do however believe that Generations did it perfectly by adding many unlockables and alternate paths to levels.

Sonic Adventure seemed to be be TOO focused on other characters.

Perhaps there's a way to combine GOTTA GO FAST with multiple characters and high replayability. I just would like to play as multipl characters to play with again without them being pure shite. Sorry for rambling, it's just how I feel.

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I just would like to play as multiple characters to play with again without them being pure shite. Sorry for rambling, it's just how I feel.

Have them playable all in the same levels, but with their own unique abilities (and shortcuts they can take) ala Sonic 3 and Knux?

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