General Fighting Game Discussion Thread.

[Silencer226]

Well I'm just now getting into fighting games with BlazBlue, I find them thrilling and challenging. Some of the moves are complicated but I feel like that's something that the player's themselves need to overcome in order to master the game. Ok, come shatter my hopes and dreams now.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Noel Vermillion

[Linkabel]

I don't really think that fighting games are complicated but then again I have been playing them since I was little and went to play on the arcades after school (now that I think about it I have wasted A LOT of money on playing fighting games)

It gives you a lot of satisfaction to learn combos and specials but it takes a lot of patience to learn. Honestly I think the best way to learn is to get your ass kicked and watching others how to play and as cliche as it sounds to have fun.

Also was I the only one that jump around everywhere or moved a lot then sneak a punch or kick and ran away when they were getting their ass kicked when they were little? Although I would admit I still do this from time to time.

[Patch Black]

Answer: Nope!

As a preface, I love fighting games of the 2d variety and don't really like or play 3d ones. I'm not an expert, but I have played high level players. Playing top Japanese players on a Guilty Gear cabinet made me shake in my boots hahaha. I mainly play UMVC3 now... which I am not the best at.

Anywho, most of the arguments I have seen for more "traditional" fighting games boil down to memorizing lots of combos and moves for all the different characters. Frankly, I do not think there are that many at all since the majority of characters share the same inputs. The majority of characters will probably have a qcf + punch. Sure, the move may be different, but the input is the same. You just gotta know when you use it.

Then there is the argument of memorizing a combo that is a long list of inputs. They rarely exist in my experience. I'm pretty bad at SF4, but doing medium, fierce, shoryuken with Ken isn't that long. What moves link to one another becomes logical with some experimentation and practice. For Marvel... you don't have to do those huge combos at a lower level! I know I don't. I'll go for damage I know I'll get for sure without a screw up than do more complicated stuff.

A lot of new players lack basics... granted, that's expected as they are new after all. It really just takes some practice playing against humans on knowing when to block high/low or go in and smack your opponent back. Since I'm not an expert, I can't really explain all the nuances of it but it starts to become second nature when you play enough.

I think about it this way: The more complicated things come up when you actually hit your opponent. When you get the chance you can do something simple or something complex. Sure the simple thing might not build much meter or only do 75% of the damage a difficult combo would do, but hey.. you gotta work on it!

If anyone wants to play UMVC3.. my PSN is PatchBlack. I'm rusty and out of practice but it'd still be fun!

[Kuzu]

Fighting games are indeed complicated and take a shit load of patience to learn, but they are probably the most satisfying to master; there's nothing like pulling off long ass combos with flashy moves, and just generally being awesome.

Games like Smash, while fun in their own right, don't give me this feeling.

[Urban Flow]

Fighting games are indeed complicated and take a shit load of patience to learn, but they are probably the most satisfying to master; there's nothing like pulling off long ass combos with flashy moves, and just generally being awesome.

Games like Smash, while fun in their own right, don't give me this feeling.

Fighting games are indeed complicated and take a shit load of patience to learn, but they are probably the most satisfying to master; there's nothing like pulling off long ass combos with flashy moves, and just generally being awesome.

Games like Smash, while fun in their own right, don't give me this feeling.

[Remynaka]

As a huge fan of fighters ( mostly Capcom's ) The default game isn't that hard at all, it's when you start to level up and play people who mastered parts if not all of the game. Learning the moves are actually easy, REALLY easy. What makes it hard imho to most people who didn't grow up learning what 'Shoryuken' means is the fact that the moves you learn you have to apply it to battle. It THEN becomes hard to some.

Example I used to be pretty good in 3rd Strike, the one thing that fucks me up is the art of a parry. Now it's not HARD to do at all... you just press forward the second an attack hits you. Thats IT! But combine that with how fast the game, character, hadoken is and you just opened up a whole new world. It really comes down to understanding that being good is not JUST with learning the moves, but understanding spacing, timing, etc. But performing the moves, aren't that hard IMHO.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Vicki Turner

[Sami]

Games like Smash, while fun in their own right, don't give me this feeling.

Super Smash Brothers Brawl is one of my favorite games, but I always chuckle whenever people try to argue that it's deep by any means. It's just as much of a party game as it is a fighting game. It's a damn good one, but the point still stands.

Personally, the only fighting game I've actually tried to learn seriously is Persona 4 Arena, and I'm getting a lot of satisfaction just from learning how to play the game properly. The gameplay has a great deal of depth to it, and I'm constantly using all the moves I've practiced and learned in Challenge or Training Mode. I get a lot more satisfaction from winning a match in that than in Brawl because it doesn't feel at all like I "just got lucky"; it's all about skill, and practicing pays off in spades.

Both types of game are really fun, and I can understand why they'd attract different crowds, but to suggest that one should lose its identity merely to be more like the other is just silly.

[Phos]

Lots of fighting games that are prevalent right now are allegedly deep but you still have a lot of people playing essentially the same game. Blazblue and MvC 3 are major culprits right now. Pressure string till you get a hit then dial your combo. Having a bunch of moves doesn't necessarily mean a lot.

Then you have SF IV with its one frame links for every combo and the really complex inputs required for FADC and double QCF +3P for most ultras and now execution is a really big part of the game for some reason. I still think the best buff Guile ever got was that his Ultra II had an input you could actually do. The retardedly step execution requirements are the only reason I don't play that game.

Random funny tidbit: Fei Long's counter ultra in SSFIV doesn't activate if he's attacked from behind in spite of what he says when he starts it.

I actually feel like MK9 hits a sort of sweet spot but it does so by just using a bunch of 3D fighting game conventions, but then the move have no standardization.

There's a lot they could do to simplify execution without impacting the core game, but fighting game developers seem so reluctant to do so.

[Ruby CUL Terumi]

Personally, I'm not a fan of movelists like Tatsunoko VS Capcom, I never got into that game.

Brawl is too easy, I personally refer to it as the "kid" version of fighters, which isn't bad, but makes it underwhelming to me.

I'm more of a fan of games that Arc makes. BlazBlue being an obvious example. It uses a four button system (Light, Medium, Hard, Drive, the latter being your characters "ability"), a shoulder button for taunting, and the joystick and other shoulder button are shortcuts. In Calamity Trigger, you could even put special abilities on the joystick.

The combo's aren't that hard unless you're going for professional battles. In which case every game is hard. A few examples are...

Ragna's Soul Eater: Any Direction + Drive

Ragna's Carnage Scissors: Half Turn -> Forward + Drive

Jin's "Ice Car": Down -> Back + Drive

Jin's Arctic Dungeon: Hold Down -> Up + Drive

To some it may seem complicated, but seriously, pick up the controller and its much easier then you'll expect. Not only that, but the game also has a difficulty setting and "Stylish" Mode, both make combo's much easier, to a Brawl level.

tl;dr: Pick up BlazBlue, if your hesitant, torrent it for the PC (as long as you use a controller), but atleast try it and you'll see the combo's aren't that hard.

EDIT: Did I mention BlazBlue has a main tutorial, specific character tutorials, and even challenges that are pretty much tutorial to advanced moves?

EDIT2: And of course, a practice mode, which loads of customization to emulate any situation.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Hazama

[Nintendoga]

Deep games like Street Fighter IV, MvC3, while I won't deny they are amazing games I haven't been able to get into them that much.

I'm not too keen on games like those where you have to memorize the combat list, do "Up, Up-Right, Right, Left, X,X,X, O, Left +X" just to do a simple move. I tried to get into many fighting games before, but the fact that they almost never take the time to explain things slowly to newcomers, just turns me off from some of them.

I guess that's why I like Smash Bros. and All Stars better because of the simpler fighting system. I recently bought UMvC3 and personally I think it's dumb to limit the people who use simple mode by not allowing me to use the later combos, but I guess they feared that some people would spam attacks (which they already do in Normal mode).

I don't think they're too complicated, but they certainly have alot of trouble showing new people the ropes. Yeah yeah I know it takes time and practice, but they could just make it easier for us to learn it sometimes. (Especially when you follow a command list for a combo EXACTLY as it tells you, yet it doesn't work.)

[The Weeb with No Name]

You know, I kind of want a different sort of fighting game to play.

One that isn't so much "->-> 66A" or "A+B - 2B", but more like "I broke both your kneecaps", and "Holy shit, I just cut your freakin' head off".

Fuck those life bars and preset combo button pressing shit, how about we make the fighting limited only to the player's imagination? Give us the world, the physics, and the bare basic moves to orchestrate fights with virtually limitless possibility. Make it less about bringing a meter down to zero, and more about putting your opponent on the ground and keeping him from getting back up, by any means necessary.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Jayhawker30

[Remy]

You know, I kind of want a different sort of fighting game to play.

One that isn't so much "->-> 66A" or "A+B - 2B", but more like "I broke both your kneecaps", and "Holy shit, I just cut your freakin' head off".

Fuck those life bars and preset combo button pressing shit, how about we make the fighting limited only to the player's imagination? Give us the world, the physics, and the bare basic moves to orchestrate fights that have almost limitless possibilities. Make it less about bringing a meter down to zero and more about keeping your opponent from getting back up, by any means necessary.

Bushido Blade. PS1.

[LunarEdge]

Basically I have two options: get ass-whooped by people that have been practicing for a ridiculous amount of time, or get ass-whooped by someone who's being cheap and only pressing one button.

In the world of fighters, there's no such thing as being "cheap." XD

[Jin.]

One that isn't so much "->-> 66A" or "A+B - 2B", but more like "I broke both your kneecaps", and "Holy shit, I just cut your freakin' head off".

I find that the ways that combo's are written on the internet are overly complicated. Even I can't understand what it means. Check the movelists ingame. They're way simpler then what the internet tells you. Taking one of Hazama's points:

My Arctic Dungeon:

Ingame movelist: DOWN (hold) - UP + D

Internet movelist: Hold 2, then 8D

Edited August 18, 2012 by Jin Hakumen Kisaragi

[Kuzu]

Deep games like Street Fighter IV, MvC3, while I won't deny they are amazing games I haven't been able to get into them that much.

I'm not too keen on games like those where you have to memorize the combat list, do "Up, Up-Right, Right, Left, X,X,X, O, Left +X" just to do a simple move. I tried to get into many fighting games before, but the fact that they almost never take the time to explain things slowly to newcomers, just turns me off from some of them.

I guess that's why I like Smash Bros. and All Stars better because of the simpler fighting system. I recently bought UMvC3 and personally I think it's dumb to limit the people who use simple mode by not allowing me to use the later combos, but I guess they feared that some people would spam attacks (which they already do in Normal mode).

I don't think they're too complicated, but they certainly have alot of trouble showing new people the ropes. Yeah yeah I know it takes time and practice, but they could just make it easier for us to learn it sometimes. (Especially when you follow a command list for a combo EXACTLY as it tells you, yet it doesn't work.)

Dude, most of the commands are even't that complicated, it really depends on what characters you use; most characters just the standard QCF, QCB, and DP motions and nothing more. This is why characters like Ryu, and Ranga exist, they're moves and playstyles are by far the most simple, and easy to pick up for newcomers.

Heck, Blazblue has both a challenge mode, and a tutorial mode so saying you can't pick up the ropes is bullshit.

[Ruby CUL Terumi]

Heck, Blazblue has both a challenge mode, and a tutorial mode so saying you can't pick up the ropes is bullshit.

Not only that

Tutorial Mode (Teaches you how everything works)

Difficulty Setting (Sets the enemy AI)

Stylish Mode (Makes combo's way easier to pull off)

Challenge Mode (Helps you memorize your combo's and attacks, along with more difficult ones)

Four things to help you learn the game!

People keep saying that the traditional fighters throw you in without any help whatsoever should try games like BlazBlue. Though a lot of games do that, *coughTatsunokoVSCapcomcough* you can see that there are games around that are willing to help you.

[Barry the Nomad]

Nobody is mentioning Virtua Fighter's awesomeness in this thread??

Whenever I hear "fighting games are too complicated", I agree when it comes to games like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. But Virtua FIghter? Man oh man is it perfect.

Virtua Fighter really is the pefect entry level fighting game, as it is what it states: a virtual fighter. You pick your fighting style via the varied characters, then you fight. Commands make total sense: Punch, Kick, Guard, Jump. That's the basics. Want to mix it up? Combos make total sense: up + punch = punching upwards. Forward + Punch = a strong forward punch. Sure it doesn't have crazy ass moves as seen in the aforementioned games, but thats the charm. There ARE awesome moves but you gotta use your brain to execute them (or a handy moves list). But like I said, if you know the basics you're good to go.

Bonus points: Sonic the Fighters uses a Virtua Fighter engine. So Sonic fans could play that game to introduce themselves to the gameplay, and then progress to the excellent Virtua FIghter 2 then onwards to the latest entry in the series.

[Ruby CUL Terumi]

Virtua Fighter really is the pefect entry level fighting game, as it is what it states: a virtual fighter. You pick your fighting style via the varied characters, then you fight. Commands make total sense: Punch, Kick, Guard, Jump. That's the basics. Want to mix it up? Combos make total sense: up + punch = punching upwards. Forward + Punch = a strong forward punch. Sure it doesn't have crazy ass moves as seen in the aforementioned games, but thats the charm. There ARE awesome moves but you gotta use your brain to execute them (or a handy moves list). But like I said, if you know the basics you're good to go.

Sounds like Brawl to me.

[Kuzu]

Admitelly, Virtua Fighter always seemed like a dumbed down Tekken.

[The Weeb with No Name]

Bushido Blade. PS1.

My thoughts precisely. Doesn't have to be the exact same thing, but the general idea is identical.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Jayhawker30

[Kuzu]

My thoughts precisely. Doesn't have to be the exact same thing, but the general idea is identical.

I saw some videos on Youtube, it's an original idea that I like, but it's kind of annoying when you don't even know if you're beating your opponent or not. If it had a stock system like Smash, then maybe,

[SupaHotFire]

Nope. UMVC3 seems "complicated" yet all you need is execution for a ToD combo like lightning loops with zero. MvC2 actually required the other fundamentals of a fighting game like mixups and resets. Street Fighter requires footsies, mixups, and a bit of execution. idk how remembering the moves is hard if most characters return in the sequels or if you watch videos of them. Anime 2D fighters only require execution like UMVC3 except its only with one vs one so the match ends quicker. I really dont think fighting games are too complicated if you put you actually try.

Tekken is just a juggle fest that requires yomis or mixups based on high, mid, and low with the four button layout. Once you learn your character's 50 or 60% combos then you can pretty much beat anyone without even knowing their moves. I really cant speak on Virtua Fighter

Edited August 18, 2012 by SupaHotFire

[Sami]

I'm not too keen on games like those where you have to memorize the combat list, do "Up, Up-Right, Right, Left, X,X,X, O, Left +X" just to do a simple move.

From my experience, this is just a common misconception. Stuff like that doesn't give you a simple move, it's a simple combo, and that's a lot more effective than you give it credit for.

Here's an example from P4A I randomly thought of from memory (directions on the D-Pad will be written as positions on a keyboard's num-pad, as per standard notation in the FGC; so "Down-Forward" will be "236" and "neutral" will be "5"):

5A (square) -> 2B (X) -> 5C (triangle) -> 236A -> 236A -> 236D (O) -> double jump-A -> 5B -> 236D

That there was a punch, low-kick, Persona weak-attack, flying kick, rolling kick (knocks the opponent into the air), Dragon Kick (hits them while airborne), double jump followed by another punch, kick, and finishing it with another Dragon Kick.

Pretty damn effective, and the most difficult part of pulling it off is mastering the timing. I don't see what's so bad about it.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Dissident

[LunarEdge]

Bonus points: Sonic the Fighters uses a Virtua Fighter engine. So Sonic fans could play that game to introduce themselves to the gameplay, and then progress to the excellent Virtua FIghter 2 then onwards to the latest entry in the series.

I thought Sonic the Fighters used the Fighting Vipers Engine, which was the reason why 2 characters of the series were found in the games data when dived into?

[novelty]

I like specific fighting games as they are easy to pick up, what aggavates me the most is trying to translate the numpad system from FAQ's and other walkthrough websites.

Also, Soul Calibur isn't so much easy if you can master swordfighting. (seriously, its all about throwing someone off their swag).

I tried Street Fighter in the past and Tekken too and I find it way too hard as the game doesn't give enough time to either pull of the combo or doesn't detect input. I mean, pulling off a 41234123AB type of combo seems a little daunting to pull off on a D-Pad