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Sonic Unleashed: Discussion about Sonic the Werehog

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Just going to respond to this one last thing.

Why in the world would you have fast-paced, happy, Japanese super fun time music for slower, more traditionally-platforming oriented stages that take place at night anyway?

I thought about that, and honestly I would. Most of the Werehog gameplay consists of fighting. Everytime you start a battle, this music plays (unless you're facing a giant or a boss):

This music is relatively fast paced, and works for battling.

The problem is, it plays this exact same music in every level.

Wouldn't it be better to just have a fast-paced theme for the level to begin with, instead of bringing the music to a dead stop just to play this annoying crap over and over again? Imagine if this music restarted everytime I rammed an enemy in the day stages. It would drive you nuts.

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Jungle Joyride: Night

My rankings on the music.

Um are you serious? JJ Day was fantastic. Then again the Day stage in general was the best thing I've seen in a sonic game EVER.

Edit: Take that back. JJ's Night is on par with it's Day counter part. Both are fucking perfect. When listening to the Night version, I feel something that I've not felt in any Sonic game. Something magical.

Edited by Eternal X

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Looking at this topic reminds me of how much I really need to get back to playing Sonic Unleashed. It's what I've been using to get ready for Generations, and ever since I got my hands on Generations, I haven't touched Unleashed since. It's been almost a year since I played Unleashed, and I remember for a time it was my favorite Sonic game. With my only real problems being the choppy framerate in Adabat, the medal collecting, and the Werehog battle theme being played over and over again.

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Can you please quit with saying "Fact", or "true facts" in every of your posts? It's frankly getting annoying, and you shouldn't put your opinions across as fact.

Look at my username,my title, and my avatar. I'm mostly here to teach peope my facts and wisdom.

If you have anything to disprove those facts, I'd be more than happy to listen.

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I thought about that, and honestly I would. Most of the Werehog gameplay consists of fighting. Everytime you start a battle, this music plays (unless you're facing a giant or a boss):

This music is relatively fast paced, and works for battling.

The problem is, it plays this exact same music in every level.

Wouldn't it be better to just have a fast-paced theme for the level to begin with, instead of bringing the music to a dead stop just to play this annoying crap over and over again? Imagine if this music restarted everytime I rammed an enemy in the day stages. It would drive you nuts.

Battles don't happen at the same frequency that ramming into enemies does in the Day Stages does, nor do the Night levels have an overall pace or aesthetic that I feel would befit peppier Day Stage-like music. Despite battling being common, there are still plenty of times when you're expected to do a hefty bit of climbing or jumping or beam-walking or puzzle-solving with this slow, lumbering creature. I cannot imagine any other kind of music playing during these moments and it being better than what we got, especially since I hold the Night music in such high regard anyway. The music switches being so common to the point of annoyance is an issue of pacing instead of shitty composition.

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And completely derail the plot in the process, since the Werehog is PART OF THE PLOT (though the resolution probably could have been expanded on).

Because the story of Sonic getting Lycanthropy just needed to be told even though it also introducing a bunch of dogma into the Sonic continuity for some reason.

But why bother replacing the Werehog with anything? It would certainly make the game less deserving of ridicule, but you would presumably still be killing the same four enemies ad nauseum in between really bland platforming sections.

Sonic's part, well that's getting into "Things we talk about every month: The Thread" territory, but wow this was shallow.

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Here's how I'd rank the levels (This game is the only game in my 16 years of playing video game where I've rendered the disc unplayable through a rage quit [thank you Eggmanland which requires 100% precision or you die...] and it has been quite a while since I played it, so I don't remember specific details on all the levels, just the general idea and how much fun I had with them {also, I don't remember all of them, so I'll make note})

Werehog:

1. Windmill Isle (the only one where I was having fun about 90% of the time from what I remember)

2. Rooftop Run (Not bad. I'd give it an 85% on the fun-ness meter.)

3. Skyscraper Scamper (This level I remember most. Aside from my first few times with the tightrope-like poles, I enjoyed it. This, I think is where the length started becoming a problem, but it wasn't that bad yet. 85% fun)

4. Jungle Joyride (eh, I don't remember that much of it, but I do remember having a fair amount of fun. I'd guess about a 75%)

5. Dragon Road (There is one section I remember giving me hell. It was one where you were jumping across platforms inches away from water. 70-75% fun)

6. Cool Edge (I actually found it okay, though just in places. I actually didn't have that much trouble with the one section that everyone seems to hate [Thank you, IGN's walkthrough warning me beforehand!]. The slippery ice got annoying, though. 65% fun.

7. Arid Sands (God, I HATE this level. WAY too long. WAY too many waves of enemies. I'd give it a 10% on the fun-ness meter)

I don't remember anything about Savannah Citadel, and I gave up (broke the disc) on Unleashed before I got to play in Eggmanland as the werehog.

Regular (Day) Sonic:

1. Rooftop Run (This is the one level in the game that I can say I do love. 97% fun!)

2. Skyscraper Scamper (I enjoyed that level, though not as much as Rooftop Run. 90% fun, from what I remember)

3. Dragon Road (There was a section that gave me trouble, but the level as a whole isn't that bad. 85% fun)

4. Windmill Isle (not bad as a first level. 85% fun)

5. Arid Sands (unlike the dreadful night version, this wasn't too bad. 75% fun)

6. Cool Edge (I'd rather it not have the ice physics and be more like Ice Cap. Plus, I HATE having to boost on water. Other than that, this level isn't that bad. 70% fun)

7. Savannah Citadel (One section took me 5 minutes to escape from [the 2D section where you are going in circles], but that is the only thing that brings this level down in my book, and for some reason, when I replayed it on two other occasions, it STILL gave me headaches. 65% fun)

8. Jungle Joyride (I hated just how precise you had to be in certain areas. Plus, that kinda has a length issue IMO. I do not want to play through that level much, but the scenery is so beautiful. 50% fun...)

9. Eggmanland (I literally had ZERO% fun with this s***.)

And I also HATE the tornado levels. Thank God there's only two, though. And I've heard the final boss is trash, but since I never got that far, I can't say.

One more thing. This isn't the game's fault, I know, but you'd think this game which forces you to do stupid medal collecting (I do like Treasure Hunting in SA1&2, but since you are in a boost game, plus you can't really go backwards if you pass one, I cannot stand doing it in this game) WOULD HAVE A STRATEGY GUIDE FOR THE HD VERSION!!!! What the crap, Prima? You made one for the SD version, but not the HD one? I really need it for those stupid medals. >_>

I didn't like Chip (that thing with the chocolate fetish love), but I don't lose sleep because of his existence. I could live with it, but the name "Professor Pickle" is just creepy.

Wow, I just had an epiphany. Reading what I just wrote here made me realize, this game isn't as bad as I thought it was, just the latest things I've done in it (Arid Sands night, Jungle Joyride, Eggmanland, Tornado Defense 2) just left a VERY, VERY bad taste in my mouth. I promise, I will re-buy this game and finish it and give the other levels some more practice and hopefully, I will like the game as a whole.

Edited by Mr.Snarf

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I have the same sort of problem with the Werehog stages as I do with the Sonic stages, in that there aren't really that many level specific gimmicks, you mostly do the same shit in each level, with a few gimmicks here and there that are brought back multiple times (the bobsled stuff, the water running, the poles you pull back to go forward, the pipe walking). It seemed like level gimmicks were only really a major thing in Cool Edge and Eggmanland. I liken it to 06 in that the Sonic levels tended to be slightly more fun but a fuck ton more frustrating and "kill you a lot because of arbitrary stuff", while the Werehog is more like Silver where it's less broken and frustrating, but a lot more tedious and drawn out. The fact you spend so much more time as Werehog than Sonic is insane, especially when the Werehog levels allow you to scour for medals more easily which is required.

It's not terrible, but could have been a lot more interesting. I certainly prefer the Werehog's QTEs than Sonic's though! Though they really really overdid the QTEs for the Werehog bosses, Egg Dragoon would have been incredible if we ripped the damn thing apart with our bare hands but nope, just press a bunch of buttons. Unleashed having the whole sacrificing gameplay for cinematics was a problem.

And Adabat Night is the best Night track imo, too bad you barely get to hear it because of the stupid combat music. That also hurt the Werehog's fun factor.

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...wow, never saw it like that before. I did really like that scene where Amy doesn't recognise Sonic though, definitely one of the best in the game. I really want to love Unleashed, but it's let down by the gameplay, which is by far the most important thing to me and it's a terrible shame.

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I actually don't mind the werehog, and I actually don't mind the werehog stages... . ... . provided I am at least 70%+ done with his upgrades.

I remember when we saw our first taste of the Werehog stages, after the usual OH THE HUMANITY from some people, I decided to look at what the stages showed... and honestly, it didn't look that bad. Puzzle solving, jumping from platform to platform, as well as combat... Whats the problem here with that as a concept?

The answer is nothing at all, God of War for instance is the example many people kept quoting, however they subbed it for the 'Hog of war,' since then theres been many more games which have used the God of War platform method, some didn't do so well... others were not too bad.

Take for instance Alice: Madness Returns and the new Splatterhouse. Both similar to God/Hog of war, both similar to themselves. Now many would argue that splatterhouse is the better of the two, but God of War is vastly better than Splatterhouse and Hog of war fits probably somewhere between Alice and Splatterhouse in terms of how enjoyable it is.

Why is this? Well... aside from the other factors like music, bugs, glitches and other problems those games suffer. Alice and Hog of war share a big problem, the levels are too long. Oh but wait you cry! Splatterhouse has long levels as well! Well yes it does, but there is one big difference between Alice/Hog of war and splatterhouse and to a greater extent, God of War.

You can blitz through the stages.

In God of Wars first stage, you are on a boat, the tutorial mission if you like, God of war 2, you're in the city as it's being invaded, God of war 3 a boss fight? Then the underworld? Ok GOW3 is a bit odd but bare with me.

In the first and second GOW, can you kill everything in more or less 1-2 strikes of the most basic attack? Answer is yes. This is also true to a lesser extent for Rick in splatterhouse, whilst his attacks are not as quick as Kratos or as damaging to the initial enemies, the weakeness of them is low enough that you can get through the early stages in a quick time that doesn't make the game drag.

Alice and Hog of War do not have this. In Alice, whilst she can kill enemies without too many problems, her base speed is so slow it takes ages to go through a level, then by level 2 you have to kill enemies (the teapots) in specific ways or else they won't die. Even though you're upgrading her weapons and what-have-you, it still takes a long time to beat each stage... and boy oh boy do they drag.

There Hog of War is similar to Alice, however he can blitz through a stage once you know the controls (like the dash move and how to platform in the game). But he suffers because from a clean save file, his base attack power is so weak compared to the enemies even in stage 1, clearing out different sections takes far longer than it should. Now imagine that was Kratos in the werehogs place... aside from a lot more blood, how quickly could you get through the fights? The werehog however can't do this until you upgrade his abilities. even for the first level, his attack power is so low that you need it quite high before you can really blaze through the combat sections.

Aside from what you may think of the level design or the other complaints, the weakness of the werehog from a clean start is a bad design choice. You give the player a stage which on average takes 20min to beat, the fighting becomes repetative and long, when you eventually beat the stage, you'll likely have a poor rank due to the length of time you took. This isn't a great incentive to carry on playing is it?

So yes. There werehog isn't a bad idea or that bad a character... so long as you get someone to level him up before hand.

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So yes. There werehog isn't a bad idea or that bad a character... so long as you get someone to level him up before hand.

I also quite liked the Werehog levels. There was nothing wrong with the graphics or the gamplay. The challange was to master the gameplay. Yes the levels took a while to complete, but as long as the gameplay is interesting enough is the length really an issue?

What gets me is people who say they don't like Modern Sonic because it's too fast and Werehog because it's too slow.

The addition of the Werehog levels was a brave move (and I think a good one) by SEGA.

Edited by MilesKnightwing

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Once again, no it wouldn't. The nature of the Werehog means that it is predominantly combat based, so even if you did get Knuckles reskinned over the Werehog, it wouldn't change the fact that the gameplay is radically different from Sonic's gameplay. Secondly, the level design was made with the Werehog in mind, so it's filled with mobs and slow puzzle elements, something Knuckles can easily avoid due to his gliding and climbing abilities. You would have to change the entire level of every night stage to accommodate.

If anything, the only result of simply reskinning the Werehog for Knuckles would only fuel the fire that Sonic's friends are shit, something we really don't need more of.

Please read. I already suggested to change some of the gameplay elements & level design to fit Knuckles signature moves. "Speeding up the gameplay to fit Knuckles" e.g. level design changes, movement changes. Basically being Knuckles regular gameplay, but combat-based.

Seriously? I consider it the strongest of the 3 modern games, putting Colours at the bottom.

Agreed. Generations modern Sonic had improvements made, but there was far too many slow sections that don't fit the style of gameplay. Colours on the other hand didn't improve on anything. It made most things worse, but it's still a decent game.

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I enjoy playing the Werehog a lot now that I'm fully levelled up, have all the combos and know the stages. My favourite part is the platforming, there's a lot of areas where you can really string stuff together in a satisfying way (first case of this would be the second-to-last area of Windmill Isle Act 1).

Wii Version was boring and dog-slow in all regards, even once levelled up, but we don't talk about that version.

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So not anything like Knuckles' regular gameplay at all, then.

How is suggesting for it to be Knuckles regular gameplay with combat not anything like Knuckles regular gameplay? That doesn't make sense.

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How is suggesting for it to be Knuckles regular gameplay with combat not anything like Knuckles regular gameplay? That doesn't make sense.

Since when has Knuckles` gameplay ever been combat based?

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Since when has Knuckles` gameplay ever been combat based?

Suggesting to add in combat to his gameplay does not make it nothing like Knuckles gameplay. That does not make sense.

It would be Knuckles regular gameplay, but with combat sections.

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Suggesting to add in combat to his gameplay does not make it nothing like Knuckles gameplay. That does not make sense.

It would be Knuckles regular gameplay, but with combat sections.

Why would you stick combat sections in a platform game, you do realize that's the fundamental flaw of the Werehog in general right? Having combat sections is why games like Heroes blow.

Edited by Ragna the Bloodedge

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It would be Knuckles regular gameplay, but with combat sections.
Which is not what Knuckles' gameplay is like. You can't treat gameplay elements as distinct parts that never interact with each other. Adding any significant combat to Knuckles' gameplay is going to seriously change how his gameplay plays out.

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While I agree that a deep combat system would fit Knuckles well, platforming-wise he and the werehog are totally different.

An ability to glide and climb walls would pretty much make any Werehog-style platforming section skippable. He's quite an awkward character to work with really, and it's why all his exclusive areas on S3&K were so claustrophobic probably.

I find werehog's clambering up things much more satisfying and interactive than jumping at a wall and holding up.

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