Zelda Topic

[Patticus]

It has been confirmed that there will be no 'extra' dungeons in WWHD.
 

The Wind Waker's missing dungeons were reused in other Zelda games

The mystery of The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker's missing dungeons can now be solved - almost. It's been known for years that more than one dungeon was cut from the GameCube game, giving its latter half some rather awkward pacing. With the HD Wii U version due for release in October this year, it's natural to wonder: will they be reinstated?

I asked Eiji Aonuma - the producer who oversees the Zelda series at Nintendo - this question when I met him yesterday in a quiet suite on Nintendo's E3 stand.

"Quite honestly, those dungeons we removed we used in other games, so we can't use them in this version!" he told me, with an apologetic laugh.

Could he tell me which ones? "I can't!" he said, laughing more. We'll likely never know, although it would be fun to speculate.

Even if the work hadn't already been recycled, though, Aonuma would have been reluctant to add it to the new version. It would have been too dramatic a change to a game which had a mixed reception at the time, but is now widely regarded as a classic. What his team is doing is tuning the pacing - presumably the distances you need to cover between islands - of the game so it's more satisfying.

"I've received many questions about additional content beyond what was in the GameCube version of the game, but our desire is to stay true of the story that was in the original," he said. "If we add dungeons then that will affect other parts of the GameCube version, which we really want to stay true to.

"If it felt like there were maybe too few dungeons then I feel that what was wrong with the GameCube version was the pacing. It was thrown off because it took longer to get to certain dungeons. There was a waiting period, and then when you arrived there the experience maybe didn't feel as big, as you'd waited so long to get there. We're tuning the game to alleviate all that. The pacing should feel appropriate to the overall experience this time... We need to tighten those [gaps] and make the overall experience and story feel tighter."

Eiji Aonuma has been synonymous with The Legend of Zelda since the Nintendo 64 days. He was a lead designer on Ocarina of Time, directed Majora's Mask, The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, and has produced every game in the series since then.

We had a long, relaxed and illuminating chat covering Wind Waker HD, the new 3DS game A Link Between Worlds, the daring next Wii U instalment, and why Nintendo has been struggling to launch original games in recent years. You can read our interview on Eurogamer tomorrow morning, with additional material being published soon by our friends and partners at Nintendo Life.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-the-wind-wakers-missing-dungeons-were-reused-in-other-zelda-games

 

I guess that means that the new sail is going to be that pacing fix for the latter half of the game, although apparently that isn't the same as the Triforce hunt fix they'll be implementing. Personally speaking, I don't see a reason why they couldn't have built a brand new dungeon (just the one!) with new ideas; as a sort of thank you to the fans, an additional challenge for them, and put it under the Ice isle or something, but I guess maybe that would mess up the pacing or something.

[Jolt_TH]

Maybe put in a dungeon with all the triforce shards in different rooms accessible by defeating the mini bosses from the previous dungeons, would be cool as you never get to refight them

Any guesses what dungeons from TP and SS were the reused WW dungeons? My money's on the Temple of time from TP, the command wand seems like a very WWish item to me

[EuroMIX]

I think it's a bit of a shame that they won't consider making new dungeons. Just expanding the Fire and Ice islands would have been a nice addition.

[-Robin-]

The next Zelda will take on a whole new art style, and may also feature DLC, as long as the DLC is worth the user's time.

 

Zelda producer Eiji Anouma has revealed that the next instalment of the acclaimed Legend of Zelda franchise for Wii U will feature an art style that hasn’t been seen before in a Zelda title. Anouma says that the art style will be neither ultra realistic, nor cartoony, but it will be something entirely new that has not seen in a Zelda game before. Anouma also revealed that the next Zelda title may feature downloadable content, but the content would have to be “worth it for the user.” Here’s what he had to say about the art style for the next Zelda.

“The thing about Zelda is we want everything to be unique, whether it’s the graphical presentation or the gameplay.”

“It has to be something you can’t see anywhere else. We wouldn’t want it to be ultra-realistic because you can see that elsewhere. But I can’t say that it’s going to be cartoony-realistic like you mentioned, the fantastic presentation that we’ve already done in the past. It will be something new.”

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/06/15/next-zelda-for-wii-u-will-feature-a-unique-art-style/

Edited June 15, 2013 by Doctor Toadley

[Patticus]

I don't know how the game can feature a new art style when it feels like literally every possible style conceivable has already been done. Unless they plan on resurrecting Twilight Princes' original Twilight Realm monochrome art style, making certain colors pop out of it and go from there. Or unless they do the visuals like a Van Gogh painting.

It'd be just wonderful if the next Zelda were to be set in the future of the kingdom founded in between PH and ST, and encompasses both that kingdom and the Great Sea across which its founders journeyed, so you've got your sea-based exploration, islands galore at one end of the world, and a solid continent with forests and mountains and towns at the other. Maybe the islands with the Deku Trees planted on them have grown as expected, and you get to visit Windfall et al later on and they've grown with the island so you've got a large town or two on either end of the world. Hell, maybe the ancient Ganon's Castle and Hyrule Castle have been dragged up from the shrinking sea floor and they become a couple of ruined, overgrown dungeons which some new villain seeks to resurrect the dark thief from, or something.

[Marcello]

I don't know how the game can feature a new art style when it feels like literally every possible style conceivable has already been done. Unless they plan on resurrecting Twilight Princes' original Twilight Realm monochrome art style, making certain colors pop out of it and go from there. Or unless they do the visuals like a Van Gogh painting.

It'd be just wonderful if the next Zelda were to be set in the future of the kingdom founded in between PH and ST, and encompasses both that kingdom and the Great Sea across which its founders journeyed, so you've got your sea-based exploration, islands galore at one end of the world, and a solid continent with forests and mountains and towns at the other. Maybe the islands with the Deku Trees planted on them have grown as expected, and you get to visit Windfall et al later on and they've grown with the island so you've got a large town or two on either end of the world. Hell, maybe the ancient Ganon's Castle and Hyrule Castle have been dragged up from the shrinking sea floor and they become a couple of ruined, overgrown dungeons which some new villain seeks to resurrect the dark thief from, or something.

I'd love to see a game that takes place between PH and ST with the adult Toon-Link design from Hyrule Historia (But improved), that shows Link and the pirates discovering the new Hyrule.

 

 

Your idea would be cool, too.

Edited June 15, 2013 by MarcelloF

[WarioBone]

I...kinda want a Zelda that takes place in the past and future like the original and LttP was supposed to be. That'd be pretty friggin' cool. Like, items from the past rely on powerful magic, and items from the future rely on technology, and Ganon is like a technomage, or something...I dunno. It'd be an interesting take on the franchise if they did it correctly.

 

They could even have a sub-romance where Link is from the past, but Zelda is from the future, and THEY FALL IN LOVE ACROSS THE REACHES OF TIME

[Soniman]

I'd love to see a game that takes place between PH and ST with the adult Toon-Link design from Hyrule Historia (But improved), that shows Link and the pirates discovering the new Hyrule.

 

 

Your idea would be cool, too.

 

What?!

[Marcello]

Here's some footage with direct feed audio.

 

 

Love the part with horns in the overworld. the music is fantastic

What?!

 

Ah, there is one in there, but I just checked and I was actually thinking of a different one.

 

Here's the one in HH (I like it, but It's not the one I'd want used)

 

This is the one I was thinking about:

Edited June 15, 2013 by MarcelloF

[EuroMIX]

I...kinda want a Zelda that takes place in the past and future like the original and LttP was supposed to be. That'd be pretty friggin' cool. Like, items from the past rely on powerful magic, and items from the future rely on technology.

 

This was basically my idea from a couple of years ago. In mine you control two Link's, one who is more like a classic Link with standard weapons and magic, and one whose arsenal is based more on technology, like a bow and arrows and a crossbow, respectively. Dungeons would be split across time with them sharing features and the actions of the past affecting the future.

 

Mine had the "Ganon Brothers" as characters though, an idea I was trying of a different take on Ganon sometime after one of his defeats with each of them representing a part of Ganon's personality. The more you defeat the more powerful the rest become, until they eventually form a sort of form of the true Ganon.

[Salamander]

Funnily enough, I've also had ideas for a Zelda game where the traditional "two world" mechanic would feature a classic Zelda medieval world and a futuristic world, although I was more thinking that they could be different branches of the timeline.  That also provides a fairly logical reason for multiple instances of the villain.  But I'm quite interested to see any idea they come up with that's at least relatively new.

[Octarine]

One thing I'd love to see is a game that fleshes out the standard enemies a bit. Like, for a labored example, Link could be a jungle boy raised by monsters: you could have all of the items be monster-themed (or actual whole monsters), make the obligatory companion character a Miniblin or something, bring back the monster/animal riding from the Oracle games... you could give a lot of personality to the usual cannon fodder races in a game like that, and that could enrich every other game that features them.

 

also link being a feral child would be the perfect excuse to have him not speak, just sayin'

[WarioBone]

I've wanted the animal riding back since like, we fucking got it the first time. Making friends with a specific creature and then reaping bonuses (exclusive or otherwise) for doing so is such a fantastic idea, especially since it essentially would allow for a second playable character in a 3D game without making you play as someone other than Link.

 

That feral child thing is especially interesting, because it would also allow for Link to be more acrobatic. On the subject, I've always had an idea where Link was a very young boy (maybe seven years old), raised by a den of friendly thieves since he was an infant. The Link in this game would be able to switch between two fighting styles; one with a dagger, for stealthy takedowns and such, and then the iconic sword and shield.

 

The story hook, though, is that this Link is extremely cowardly. The Triforce mark carried by his bloodline has turned dull and grey because of it, and over the course of the game, Link would grow with the help of his fellow thieves and other characters, eventually culminating in a defining character moment when he intentionally puts himself in danger to save someone else.

 

I've always liked the idea of a Link that wasn't "just a small town boy", or one that was even a bit of a troublemaker, so the idea of a feral Link or a thief child is extra appealing.

[Wraith]

Since we're talking about characters here, I've always wanted to see a game where Zelda and Ganon stand on opposite sides of a conflict,  and Link gets to know both and allow the players to sort of sympathize with both of them for different reasons. 

 

I don't know. I just think potential interactions between Link and Ganon would be interesting in a situation where Link wasn't directly apposing him.

[Soniman]

Maybe there could be a game where Link would have to be the bad guy (though the overall intentions would still be good from the player's point of view).

[WarioBone]

As much as I like the idea of having choices in a Zelda game, Ganon's entire purpose as the King of Evil

and Demise's "child"

is to snuff out Link and Zelda's bloodlines. It just wouldn't make sense for them to be on the same side for any amount of time.

 

That said, I would absolutely love to see more sympathetic Ganon. WW Ganon is by far the best take on him, because it actually gave him a motivation other than "I'm bad so I do bad things". His jealousy for the life-giving winds that blew through Hyrule struck a serious chord with me and I really think he should have a similar characterization in the next Zelda, if he appears.

 

The complaint with a lot of Zelda villains is that they're one-dimensional, which is true as all hell. Majora wants to kill everything. Ghirahim wants to revive Demise so he can kill everything. Vaati and Ganon want to rule everything. Shedding some more light on the suffering Ganon went through in his earlier years would be nothing but a boon for the series overall.

[Wraith]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Link has to side with Ganon, but to see them grow a mutual respect for one another despite ultimately being driven to fight due to the events of the past would lead to an interesting dynamic.

[WarioBone]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Link has to side with Ganon, but to see them grow a mutual respect for one another despite ultimately being driven to fight due to the events of the past would lead to an interesting dynamic.

 

Oh, well, yeah. Showing Ganon being a fair and effective leader over the Gerudo/his demons would be a neat way of doing that, since he's never had a really coherent "army", which is definitely something I'd like to see.

 

Speaking of armies, there's a lot of demand for a corrupt royal family member as a villain. What do you guys think of that?

[JezMM]

Maybe put in a dungeon with all the triforce shards in different rooms accessible by defeating the mini bosses from the previous dungeons, would be cool as you never get to refight them

 

Just to respond to this, ALL the minibosses in Wind Waker are basically first encounters with very strong enemies, so you TECHNICALLY do get to fight them again.

 

I think the only exception would be Wind Temple's unique powerful Wizzrobe (and of course, Phantom Ganon), whom, while appearing again, are only ever fought in miniboss-esque encounters.

[Wraith]

 

Speaking of armies, there's a lot of demand for a corrupt royal family member as a villain. What do you guys think of that?

I don't know. I can't help but feel like it would be a bit generic.

 

Though, I have to say, having Zelda oppose Link for once would be a good way to shake things up.

[JezMM]

I like the idea of a twist where Link knows something Zelda doesn't, and Zelda doesn't believe him for <reason> and actually becomes an obstacle on his path to stopping Ganon as he must overcome her resistance to his plans in order to prove he was right and stop Ganon before it is too late etc.

 

 

It's a classic scenario of "detective can't solve a case before being dismissed by his also well-intentioned chief due to acting on some crazy sounding lead that turns out to be true" but still, hasn't been done in Zelda before.

[Octarine]

Corrupt royal family member? Well, you could always make a game out of the backstory from Zelda II. The ending'd be kind of a downer, though.

[Diogenes]

As much as I like the idea of having choices in a Zelda game, Ganon's entire purpose as the King of Evil

and Demise's "child"

is to snuff out Link and Zelda's bloodlines. It just wouldn't make sense for them to be on the same side for any amount of time.

No I could see it working. If Link was naive enough, and Ganondorf charismatic and manipulative enough, he could try turning them against each other to make eliminating both easier. Although I guess the hard part is selling it to the player, with them knowing Ganondorf is unquestionably a bad guy...

Honestly any kind of major shake-up to the standard legend/format would be interesting. Set in the future, two Links, play as Zelda, whatever. They've gotten a lot of mileage out of the repeating conflict, the recurring locations and races, etc etc, but I think some of their strongest games have come from moving further away from it (MM and WW) and some of their weaker ones from playing it straight (TP and SS). Between ALttP and OoT, it's hard to improve on "standard Zelda", so I'd like to see them mess around with the series more. Plus the way the games can be set hundreds or thousands of years apart from any other with entirely new Links and Zeldas means they've got tons of leeway to reinvent the world and the characters into almost anything.

[G-Force]

I think it would be cool to have a game where Zelda adventures alongside Link, gaining new powers and such over the course of the game in a similar way to how Link does. Not like Spirit Tracks, though. She would actually use her own magical powers and stuff instead of possessing creatures to help Link.

Puzzles would revolve around figuring out where Link can do things, where Zelda can do things, using their abilities in tandem or even combining them. It would also allow for 2 player co-op, which would also be cool.

[EuroMIX]

That said, I would absolutely love to see more sympathetic Ganon. WW Ganon is by far the best take on him, because it actually gave him a motivation other than "I'm bad so I do bad things". His jealousy for the life-giving winds that blew through Hyrule struck a serious chord with me and I really think he should have a similar characterization in the next Zelda, if he appears.

 

This was why I chose a different take on him with my idea. Each brother you killed would give the rest more power, unlocking the true Ganon in the process. Since each represents a part of Ganon they are encouraged to act upon those aspects, so one will vent out anger at Link, another will show cunning and manipulate his brothers so HE gets all the power, etc. When the last of the six finally tries to take the true form of Ganon, you've already learned a lot about him through these encounters so you basically have all those people you previously faced in one body under the command of whoever was left. Of course MY twist would be there is a seventh one who was abandoned because he represents Ganon's hope/innocence/whatever and is therefore nothing more than a meek child you befriend early on and help grow. After the final boss the game teases a "true" final boss since this last secret brother would be the one left with all of the power, but because he holds the most influence at that moment, he allows Link to kill him.

 

This allows for a different take on Ganon without necessarily breaking character.

Edited June 16, 2013 by EuroMIX