Zelda Topic

[Blue Blood]

I think it would be interesting if they let you choose the gender Link(Linkette?) in future games, yeah. Zelda being the protag for one of the games could be cool, though. Definitely wouldn't mind seeing her play a more active role like she did in Spirit Tracks.

 

I don't like the idea of choosing a female Link, honestly. It'd make the games feel like they're telling the story of a hero and more like they're telling the story of you, ala Pokémon. Link is very much one character in all his incarnations. But a playable Zelda would be very, very cool to see. Following on from what Octarine said, role reversal wouldn't work. I'd like to see Link and Zelda working together. Like Spirit Tracks, but without Zelda being essentially dead.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Blue Blood

[Conando]

Maybe they could make a split game like the Oracle ones. One where Link and Zelda split up to work toward saving the world or multiple regions or something.

[Diogenes]

I don't like the idea of choosing a female Link, honestly. It'd make the games feel like they're telling the story of a hero and more like they're telling the story of you, ala Pokémon. Link is very much one character in all his incarnations.

OoT/MM Link ain't WW Link ain't TP Link ain't SS Link and so on. In a literal sense, as far as the events that shape them throughout the game, and I would say to some extent their "base" personalities. And I don't see how offering a choice between a male and female Link would overly personalize the story any more than being able to name him has; I could (and in some cases have) play(ed) Zelda games with a character named anything from Link, to Lunk, to Dio, to my real name, to Boner, to Linkette, to Mario, to Hitler, and the ability to do so hasn't lessened the games in any way.

[Nepenthe]

My brother named Link "2 Chainz" in TP. For the record, it completely destroyed any and all tension within the cutscenes.

Regardless, I feel it'd be extremely difficult to make the Zelda series into one where the protagonist is more personable or "you." For one, the naming scheme doesn't matter, because marketing and canon refer to Link by his given name all the time, and it's been as such for years. This is less apparent with Pokemon. Second, Link is always seen, which makes me feel less like I am doing something and more like I am making a character or avatar do something.

Subsequently, I wouldn't mind if we could genderbend Link, although it's not something I myself am dying to have. Playing as Zelda would be much more interesting, and more helpful in regards to the gender politics this tangent brings up. I mean, she has special powers herself- being an reincarnated god and all- and has a ninja alter-ego. Like... seriously Nintendo.

[Blue Blood]

OoT/MM Link ain't WW Link ain't TP Link ain't SS Link and so on. In a literal sense, as far as the events that shape them throughout the game, and I would say to some extent their "base" personalities. And I don't see how offering a choice between a male and female Link would overly personalize the story any more than being able to name him has; I could (and in some cases have) play(ed) Zelda games with a character named anything from Link, to Lunk, to Dio, to my real name, to Boner, to Linkette, to Mario, to Hitler, and the ability to do so hasn't lessened the games in any way.

 

Perhaps not, but the idea really doesn't sit right with me. Not when Link is already so established. Then again, I'm the sort of person who won't make a new file and call it anything but "Link". Not even "LINK" will do. It's gotta be proper

[Diogenes]

But they're all different Links. Some are kids, some are teenagers. Some are left-handed, some are right handed. Why can't some be guys and some be girls?

[Mr Useful]

But they're all different Links. Some are kids, some are teenagers. Some are left-handed, some are right handed. Why can't some be guys and some be girls?

If the only playable character is a girl, I could see some male players turned off by the fact that they are playing as a girl. It's a stupid reason but it can and does still happen.

[Nepenthe]

If the only playable character is a girl, I could see some male players turned off by the fact that they are playing as a girl. It's a stupid reason but it can and does still happen.

Dress her in skimpy clothing that's completely inappropriate for battling and adventuring and you could reel those same unfortunate, annoying individuals right back in. Or we could ignore them anyway.

[Wraith]

I got it.

 

 

Male Link AND Female Link get metal padded lingerie.

 

Everyone wins.

[Diogenes]

If the only playable character is a girl, I could see some male players turned off by the fact that they are playing as a girl. It's a stupid reason but it can and does still happen.

I don't see a need to respect the irrational neuroses of dumb jerks.

[-Robin-]

I get the feeling that those types of people who would refrain from playing as a woman don't often play games depicted in a fantasy setting where you're collecting jewels and triangle pieces while equipped with mirrors, slingshots, and bottles anyway.

[Diogenes]

Also dumb jerks complained about Wind Waker's art style, but that wasn't a reason not to do it.

[JezMM]

I'd be fine with choosing gender for Link.  Hell, Link isn't even a real name so it's already gender neutral so that's not a problem.  Obviously there are references to the hero being a "young boy" but this is only in retrospect where one game's story has become a legend in another (i.e. Wind Waker being OoT's real sequel story-wise).  For those cases, all references to future games could just say it was a young hero, and art depicting said hero can be stylistically ambigious.

 

If the only playable character is a girl, I could see some male players turned off by the fact that they are playing as a girl. It's a stupid reason but it can and does still happen.

 

Giving into such idiots will only cause them to remain.  We have to drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st century.  I was 4 when I first played Mario 2 and I had no qualms playing as a pretty pink asskicking Princess.

 

 

 

Oh, and for trivia's sake, I always name my Links "Jez" on my first play (which, should I dabble in such activities, will remain as my most complete file with optional stuff), but, partly for investing in the "canon" story, partly for telling it apart from my main file as one I can delete to play again, I will name my subsequent playthroughs as "Link".

[WarioBone]

I'm definitely on-board for Linkette, but I'd much rather have Link be born as a pair of twins, one male and the other female.

[EuroMIX]

Zelda is kind of a weird series in that each Link is as much his own character as he is an avatar for the player. I'd rather they focused on improving Zelda's role in the series as an active character. Link is pretty androgynous for your typical male lead anyway.

 

One of the things I liked about SS was it made me care about Zelda, but not to the point where I had to totally swallow the "I must fancier her" part. For a game that skirted on romance I appreciated not being forced to do so since the story left a lot up to personal interpretation.

[JezMM]

It's fascinating that we're divided on whether Link is fully an established character or not.

 

To me he, as a character who has many iterations, just really really isn't.  The Links that exist are set in stone, but future Links could be either gender.

 

For example, if they remade Majora's Mask, even after releasing a new Zelda game with gender choice, it would be weird to give a gender option.  Or if they released a direct sequel/side story to Skyward Sword featuring the same Link, a lá Majora's Mask or Crossbow Training it would be a bit off.  But new Zelda games with new Links, go for it.

 

 

 

(Also hilariously I accidentally hit Ctrl+L while typing this post and guess what that brings up).

Edited June 19, 2013 by JezMM

[Solly]

But they're all different Links. Some are kids, some are teenagers. Some are left-handed, some are right handed. Why can't some be guys and some be girls?

 

People complained about this one, too. :V

Hell, Link isn't even a real name so it's already gender neutral so that's not a problem.

This actually isn't true. It's a boy's name of English origin, often shortened from Lincoln. It can be either a nickname, or regular name.

[JezMM]

This actually isn't true. It's a boy's name of English origin, often shortened from Lincoln. It can be either a nickname, or regular name.

 

Ehhh to be fair though I don't think the Japanese speaking developers were thinking whether it was a real name or not when naming him.  But who knows.

[EuroMIX]

Would playable Link and Zelda not be reasonable? She is the title character after all and Link merely helps as his part in the curse to make all right in Hyrule.

 

That said, didn't Demise's curse pretty much make it so Link, Zelda and Ganon would always be a thing forever more, or am I misremembering?

[WarioBone]

You know, I'd like to see the "multiple playable races" idea from Majora's Mask to return (also Majora's Mask 3D pls).  It's strange that such a good idea hasn't been used except for a wolf that plays EXACTLY like regular Link.

[JezMM]

The tricky part to that though is making Zelda's gameplay equally relevant and enjoyable, not just a support role.

 

Or I guess true equality would not be caring how much role each character has based on their gender.

 

 

Fucking equality mind loops gragh.

 

 

 

 

Anyway most important would be the fact that people come to a Zelda game to play as Link.  Wolf was fun, sailing was fun, flight was fun, but none were as fun as the core gameplay.  For Zelda to be worthwhile she needs to be more than a gimmick without infringing on the traditional gameplay too much yet still being different enough to be justified yet...  Yeah.

Edited June 19, 2013 by JezMM

[-Robin-]

That said, didn't Demise's curse pretty much make it so Link, Zelda and Ganon would always be a thing forever more, or am I misremembering?

It didn't stop Link from killing Ganondorf outright, as he did in Wind Waker. And since WW, that timeline has been Ganon free for over 100 years.

We haven't had a game taking place after Twilight Princess, so we don't know what happened with Ganondorf dying there either.

It's as if dying in his human wraps it up for Ganondorf for good, but dying in his Ganon form provides a failsafe for him to come back. At least temporarily; Zelda II does require Links blood to fuel Ganon's revival.

buuuuuuuuut all it takes is for another Ganon reunion in a Zelda game that takes place after Zelda II, Spirit Tracks, or Twilight Princess to scrap that idea.

[EuroMIX]

I suppose the main issue of making Zelda a playable character from a story perspective is, most of the time, she's a Princess, so she's expected to live up to certain expectations and make sacrifices in order to protect her people. She's actually an exceedingly strong character given all the trust she has to place in people like Link to do the things she couldn't normally due to the constraints of being a ruler. Link's answer to everything is more or less rush in and stab it, but Zelda usually has to be a bit more tactful in how she operates. She had to symbolically drop her own sword in surrender because she knew that it was the better of the two options she had given that Zant probably would have slaughtered her people had she not given in, despite it not being a good option.

 

Any attempt to make her properly playable would have to be handled well.

[WarioBone]

They pretty much outright said he was completely gone and that the Master Sword was going to sleep forever at the end of Link to the Past.

 

Clearly the Triforce doesn't know shit.

[Diogenes]

It's fascinating that we're divided on whether Link is fully an established character or not.

The way I see it, "Link", in the general sense, is closer to an archetype than a character. There are certain traits that all(/most) Links share, that make up this nebulous concept of "Link", and any particular Link can be a fully fleshed out character, but the concept of Link is not a character in itself.

Like, you need at least some variation of the green tunic and hat. That's not negotiable; that, above all else, is "what Link looks like". Every Link will have it, at least at some point. But the exact design of the outfit changes from game to game, to match the style of the particular game and to define the particular Link that wears it.

 

People complained about this one, too. :V

Yeah more dumb jerks.

 

The tricky part to that though is making Zelda's gameplay equally relevant and enjoyable, not just a support role.

Well the way I'd go about it is to make her sort of a variant of Link. Not a separate gimmick, not a limited alternative, but a character that can provide the same core experience as Link but in a different form. Instead of fighting with a sword, maybe she uses a bow, with similarly deep combat as the swordplay. Where Link gets physical tools increasing his range of abilities, she gets spells with a variety of effects. She could fight, explore, and solve puzzles just as well as Link, she simply has different tools and a different style to do so.

Or I guess true equality would not be caring how much role each character has based on their gender.

 

Fucking equality mind loops gragh.

People need to recognize and confront inequality to overcome it. That is, as long as there is a large-scale inequality (like the dearth of female protagonists in video games), it's appropriate to consciously create works that are equal or even imbalanced in the opposite direction, to attack the assumptions and assertions that underlie and perpetuate the inequality. This would eventually be phased out in favor of a more "why should we care which gender" approach once approximate equality is reached in the large scale due to people no longer being sexist jerks.