Zelda Topic

[JezMM]

What new concepts? A wolf that was underutilized and underdeveloped? A fairly straightforward story that tricks you into thinking it goes into a different direction when midway through we learn it's just the same plot retreads as before? A return to a near copy of old Hyrule expanded? I'll give you the dungeon items, because they were very good updates, but had little use outside their dungeons.

 

Majora at least added the idea of transformation masks to expand on the options Link had on him without the use of extraneous items. That was a shake up. Adding a time limit that allowed for a living breathing world that could not be done in any other Zelda game before and add an extra set of pressure on the player while still being forgiving. That's a shake up. 

 

WW at least added the sea, allowing for a more diverse overworld with what was on it. (If you think the Great Sea was just an empty mass, you're blind.)

 

I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about the dungeon items and design primarily here, which you just agreed with me on.  I was saying that is the thing that TP did that makes me love it in the same way I love MM for the time stuff and WW for the ocean, yes.

 

 

I also had no issue with the wolf (the teardrop collecting was depressing and claustrophobic in a displeasurable way though), and have literally next to no issues with the story whatsoever so I guess that's just personal taste.

 

 

Regarding OoT references the only part that sticks out is the throwback to the Poe Sisters in Arbiter's Grounds, and the Temple of Time (which was fucking awesome and hit me right in the nostalgia when the music kicked in).

[Soniman]

May one big gripe with TP's story was Zant, whom they completley dropped the ball on in such a damming way to the character.

[VO.SUPER]

I thought it was pretty clear I was talking about the dungeon items and design primarily here, which you just agreed with me on.  I was saying that is the thing that TP did that makes me love it in the same way I love MM for the time stuff and WW for the ocean, yes.

 

 

I also had no issue with the wolf (the teardrop collecting was depressing and claustrophobic in a displeasurable way though), and have literally next to no issues with the story whatsoever so I guess that's just personal taste.

 

 

Regarding OoT references the only part that sticks out is the throwback to the Poe Sisters in Arbiter's Grounds, and the Temple of Time (which was fucking awesome and hit me right in the nostalgia when the music kicked in).

 

Pretty much comes down to personal taste. Though I may have ranted about the lack of respect I have for this title, I don't think Twilight Princess is a bad game. And for a guy like you, my issues aren't that big to you though you have an understanding of my point. I understand your point, but I don't get the same enjoyment from this game like you. 

 

That's pretty standard Zelda quality. Good night.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

EDIT: Well... actually don't get me wrong, it's leagues below MM in terms of inventiveness and uniqueness, just saying it's similar on the "dark" scale.

 

Ehhh not really. Majora grapples with big concepts and doesn't really shy away from the bleakness inherent in its premise, while Twilight Princess... I guess it has more blood in it. It's more down to Majora being dark in a cerebral sense, whereas Twilight Princess, where it's dark at all, is only really dark on a visceral level.

 

Twilight Princess on a whole was really more bland than anything. Like with what Dio said, the things that TP brought to the series that I can get behind I can count on one hand. TP's Hyrule Field is like a microcosm of the game on the whole: there's some neat stuff to do, and some really great moments you'll stumble upon here and there, but the whole thing is devoid of landmarks or anything really memorable. There's nothing to really drive you to explore the world beyond the mechanical desire to just complete it to say you did.

[Wraith]

I found Zant snapping actually kind of interesting. Before he was a bit of a generic villain. I don't think he would have been as memorable if he had stayed that way all the way through.

 

Ganondorf still felt like he was shoehorned in, though.

[Diogenes]

May one big gripe with TP's story was Zant, whom they completley dropped the ball on in such a damming way to the character.

My only problem with Zant is that they killed him off as soon as he got interesting.

Crazyass Zant worshiping and drawing power from what was left of Ganondorf was way more interesting than Generic McBadguy Zant and Generic McBadguy Ganondorf.

[JezMM]

Ehhh not really. Majora grapples with big concepts and doesn't really shy away from the bleakness inherent in its premise, while Twilight Princess... I guess it has more blood in it. It's more down to Majora being dark in a cerebral sense, whereas Twilight Princess, where it's dark at all, is only really dark on a visceral level.

 

I completely agree.  Just always bothers me when TP is criticised for being too dark when on a surface level I think it was just as dark as MM, and on a complex level MM was far far darker like you say.

[Celestia]

I don't care what anyone says, the fight with Zant was amazing. I love "final exam" bosses, and all the reality warping was fun. Make it a bit tougher and it would've made for a more satisfying final boss than, well, [unenthusiastic voice] oh no, it's Ganondorf. Oh noooooooooo.

[VO.SUPER]

I completely agree.  Just always bothers me when TP is criticised for being too dark when on a surface level I think it was just as dark as MM, and on a complex level MM was far far darker like you say.

 

More like dark for the sake of being dark.

 

DAMNIT, I'VE GOTTA GET OUT OF HERE! 

 

Good night!

[Soniman]

TP deals with a lot of creepy imagery but I dont think anything from it's story or characters can be considered particularly dark. I guess the Twili can be kinda scary?

[Wraith]

I agree that Twilight Princess really did screw up for the final boss. After the extremely intimidating OOT battle with Ganondorf and the Wind Waker battle which was just plain awesome, they did kind of drop the ball with him. Add the fact that you didn't meet Ganondorf until about 20 minutes before the last fight and the satisfaction you get from kicking his ass in the other games just isn't there.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Really, Twilight Princess would've been much more interesting if they just dumped you in the Twilight Realm wholesale and made a unique world out of that. I explored Hyrule a billion times before, but I would've loved to explore that nightmare world so far removed from the traditional experience.

 

That's kinda what makes Twilight Princess frustrating. All the good ideas it has just makes me upset that they didn't embrace them like the concepts really deserved to be.

[Celestia]

The Twilight Realm itself was pretty freaky, along with the inhabitants who just kind of..groan at Link when you go near them. I wouldn't really say stuff like that was "dark" (aside from literally), though, so much as "creepy".
 

I agree that Twilight Princess really did screw up for the final boss. After the extremely intimidating OOT battle with Ganondorf and the Wind Waker battle which was just plain awesome, they did kind of drop the ball with him. Add the fact that you didn't meet Ganondorf until about 20 minutes before the last fight and the satisfaction you get from kicking his ass in the other games just isn't there.

I actually don't mind the fight(s) themselves--the very last phase is memorable for the final blow alone, admittedly--but yeah, the buildup was really awful. Even with TP being the first Zelda I played (yeah, yeah,  know), I was unimpressed. It's even more unimpressive after playing more games in the series.
 

Really, Twilight Princess would've been much more interesting if they just dumped you in the Twilight Realm wholesale and made a unique world out of that. I explored Hyrule a billion times before, but I would've loved to explore that nightmare world so far removed from the traditional experience.

Well the Mirror's gone, so we'll never get that chance! Hooray!

*sob*

[Octarine]

Twilight Princess is my favourite 3D Zelda, even though it's probably the least good of the bunch and it's not much like what I want from the series in terms of look or tone. It's just flawed in such weird ways that I find it endearing, I dunno.

 

It definitely doesn't need a rerelease anytime soon, though. It would probably benefit more than Wind Waker did from a graphical update, but it'd just be weird to stick it out there in anywhere near the same timeframe as the legit open-world Wii U Zelda. Unless that game's a total disaster, TP would just end up looking embarrassing by comparison.

[JayRaR]

Say what you will on the final Twilight Princess boss fights on how easy they are (I think every 3D Zelda game had an easy final boss anyways) and that its Ganondorf again, but I liked they way it was structured in four parts and different they are with one another. You get to fight a possessed Princess Zelda (in which I flipped my shit over when in my first playthrough; fighting against someone I was trying to save), become Wolf Link for the final time against Pig Ganon (who's quadrupedal for some reason); a horseback sequence with Zelda's help; and finally the mano y mano swordfight with Ganondorf himself. I thought the four part final battle was a great way to finish off the game, and is probably one of the best highlights for me when I finished the game.

[Marcello]

why would they remaster Twilight Princess?

Because it'll be 10 years old, it will be cheap to make and still sell well and it can fill out a possibly sparse line-up for the Wii U in 2016.

 

I'm not saying it should be forgotten.

 

I'm saying it already plays in widescreen and looks good. Maybe when the Wii Poo comes out in 2020 and runs 4k at 120Hz  with the new controller that looks like a condom dispenser when Wii copies go for $80 used then an upgrade could be cool.

 

There have been countless complaints about muddy textures that they could improve on. I'd also love to seem them improve sky boxes and lighting like in WW. Maybe streamline teardrop searching, the tutorial at the beginning and some other things. Hero mode could also slightly fix the complaint about easy bosses etc.

[Sami]

A rerelease with sharper textures and a higher resolution would be neat. 1080p/30fps like WWHD, of course.

Dunno if I'd personally buy it though. I liked TP well enough but I also find it really shallow in a lot of ways, and it's very intimating as far as desire to replay goes. Way too long and with a lot of stuff I found tedious the first time around.

[SuperLink]

I think I'd only rebuy TP if they totally retextured and even remodelled it somewhat. New textures without new models would probably serve to highlight just how quickly aged the visuals are.

 

Also, I already own it on both Wii and GC. If I wanna replay it I'll just play the GC one, I don't need a re-release any time soon unless it's got a considerable amount of new content. A Virtual Console release so newer players can play it more easily? Yeah sure.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Oh, we're talking about TP?

 

That's very useful for blowing your nose or covering houses. *Ba dum tish*

 

In all seriousness, I loved that game too. At first, I didn't like it. I'd watched my uncle play it and had a guide for him at times (I think just the mansion, as my uncle never really played Zelda), and I thought it was too creepy compared to WW. It didn't help when he did one of those fake, really loud screams when that thing said "NOT TAKE MIRROR". My family members do that to me a lot. ANYWAY, then, like 4 or 5 years later, I decided to play it myself. And, well, I really liked it. It was a little dull-ish in the graphics department (since I was more used to Wind Waker's UNLIMITED COLORS), but the gameplay and everything was good. I think I prefer Werehog over WereLink though

 

So yeah basically every time you mention a Zelda I shall swoop in and talk about whichever one you mentioned.

[Gabz Girl]

I remember the day I finally got to play Twilight Princess when I found a rare GameCube copy for God knows how much money in CeX. I played it, stalled it a few times then played it again and...yeah, it doesn't impress me. =[ Diogenes pointed out the things I liked about it such as Midna and those Yeti people but everything else was just good or meh. The main problems I had with the game were that Hyrule field was too damn empty, character designs were mostly ugly as sin and Zant COULD have been a great villain but was once again outed by Ganondorf. Yaaaay...

I don't mind an HD remake of TP, so long as they can make the game look fantastic instead of having all those muddy textures and OTT bloom effects and maybe make some improvements to things like Hyrule field. Make it more interesting, give us things to do in it!

[Sami]

Since we're talking about Twilight Princess I figure I might as well link Matt's review of that as well. All of his Zelda videos are really great and in-depth, and there's not much at all that I disagree with in any of them. 

 

[Phos]

I swear looking at screenshots of TP is a strange breath of fresh air after all the saccharin WW/SS stuff. I also is, at the very least, not skyward sword. They stuck a shithead into that game just so they could develop a shithead. It gives full motion control of the sword but clearly no one ever thought of why that would be a fun thing to have. Zelda has bangs. I can't think of anything about SS that doesn't make me hate it. Ok it does have those time rocks.

TP did have that cool bit where you're actually dueling Ganondorf. That was too long coming.

By the way, I though of an even more controversial thing to say about the franchise: "Time to Sword: a way of measuring how good a Zelda game is." Majora's Mask is clearly the best Zelda game because you start with it. Ok, that can't be true, you start with the sword in Adventure of Link.

But there is a funny thing about Majora's mask worth bringing up: you know how in most Zelda games you can name yourself " I say" or some other silly thing to change the meaning of stuff people say to you? That doesn't really work in MM because the dialog is conversationally written.

[JezMM]

The dialogue in Majora's Mask is yet another of my fave things about it.  It had so much more personality than OoT.  If I recall that one was actually localised in the UK, which I think does a lot to explain it's casual attitude to the dialogue, as well as the occasional (hilarious due to it being Zelda) Britishism like "Blimey" or "Cripes!".  I mean obviously as a Britishy person I'm being biased but it gave it a nice flavour, and didn't feel out of place due to Zelda's fantasy world taking inspiration from medieval England.

 

 

Starting with the sword and everything is one of my fave things about Majora's Mask.  What I wouldn't give for a game that starts out as dramatically as Majora's Mask did.  It doesn't need to be a sequel, just make the story start when the story starts for once.  If your storytelling is good enough we won't need to see the peaceful life beforehand in order to sympathise with the characters and know what we're fighting for.

[Marcello]

By the way, I though of an even more controversial thing to say about the franchise: "Time to Sword: a way of measuring how good a Zelda game is." Majora's Mask is clearly the best Zelda game because you start with it. Ok, that can't be true, you start with the sword in Adventure of Link.

 

Plus, you only have it for a few minutes at the beginning and then you're turned into a Deku Scrub for over an hour.

[JayRaR]

I wouldn't mind an HD remake for TP. Just made the graphics prettier, make it 60 fps, shorten the beginning (and option to skip tutorials would be nice too) and slap on Hero Mode at the start and I'd gladly buy this game again. Talking about this makes me want to replay it again...

 

Also, while I love Majora's Mask, its got a somewhat lengthy start as you gotta be stuck being a shrub for an hour or 2. I think Wind Waker's got the best start, a nice relaxing pace at Link's hometown and then immediately danger with the arrival of the Helmeroc King carrying Tetra to start the game off. Having Link's sister being kidnapped, although cliche, was necessary motivation for Link to leave the island and "attempt" the hero's quest.