Sonic 2006 Re-Release?

[Alice Twilight]

I wanna punch someone in the nuts anytime someone says games like ShTH or Sonic 06 weren't really bad games. I mean really, do we need to start buy people glasses here?

Are people not allowed to like games you don't like?

[Nepenthe]

It's been quite obvious for awhile that it's very difficult to express any positive thought about Sonic 06 without having to face, at the very worst, the proverbial gang-rape of several posters telling you just why you're wrong while looking down their noses at those sects of fans as a whole, and at the very least, that backhanded tolerance bullshit people like using to put you in your place: "Oh you can like this; just don't say anything good about it because that's wrong." At the very best, you'll just go ignored if you're not too invested in the argument.

[Diogenes]

Are people not allowed to like games you don't like?

Oh, they're allowed to.

In the same way that I'm allowed to think they're dumb for it.

[Wraith]

It's different when people insist there's nothing wrong with the games and that when we say we don't like it we're overreacting.

[Dr. Crusher]

Are people not allowed to like games you don't like?

I think it has less to do with them liking it in itself as it is that most fans of it tend to flaunt it, as if it was a secret agent privilege. You know, "I'm a TRUE Sonic fan!", "Haters gonna hate", "The later games are SO CHILDISH, they should be DEEP and EMOTIONAL, like this!", and whatnot. Including, indeed, comments like "Am I NOT ALLOWED to have MY OWN OPINIONS, HMPH", only far more whiny.

It's sort of like fangirls of the more diverse characters like Shadow or Mephiles. Of course you'll find rational fans of them somewhere, but unfortunately the most common kind you see are the rabid ones that can't be bargained with.

Hell, it's the same thing with this franchise as a whole. Thanks to the combination of things like the deceased Sonic Passion, Chris-Chan, and many, many YouTube comments/DeviantART fancharacters/fanfiction and so forth, the franchise is given an even worse reputation, as if Sonic 2006's ever looming shadow in itself wasn't bad enough.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Nepenthe]

I agree that fanatics of all stripes are annoying, and when I see them in action, I'm more likely to leave them to their ramblings. For one, brick wall conversations get annoying, frustrating, and tiring after awhile. And besides, these kinds of people are usually just kids anyway; they'll hopefully not pull a Nicochi and grow up with a healthier ability to parse the flaws of the entertainment they indulge in without being personally invested in whether or not it's downright perfect or if others disagree with them.

But let's not pretend that blatantly inflammatory comments like Dio's up there don't fuel both people's defensiveness of their favored media and a perceived unwillingness of the other side to also be bargained with and see the rationale of a more optimistic viewpoint. I mean really, if you believe a game someone else likes has nothing of value to offer, if you believe that Sonic 06 had not one single iota of good in it from its very core, what kind of conversation is to be had beyond the usual cynical circle-jerking?

Edited September 1, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Dr. Crusher]

I agree that fanatics of all stripes are annoying, and when I see them in action, I'm more likely to leave them to their ramblings. For one, brick wall conversations get annoying, frustrating, and tiring after awhile. And besides, these kinds of people are usually just kids anyway; they'll hopefully not pull a Nicochi and grow up with a healthier ability to parse the flaws of the entertainment they indulge without being personally invested in whether or not it's downright perfect or if others disagree with them.

But let's not pretend that blatantly inflammatory comments like Dio's up there don't fuel both people's defensiveness of their favored media and a perceived unwillingness of the other side to also be bargained with and see the rationale of a more optimistic viewpoint. I mean really, if you believe a game someone else likes has nothing of value to offer, if you believe that Sonic 06 had not one single iota of good in it from it's very core, what kind of conversation is to be had beyond the usual cynical circle-jerking?

Of course, it's only the really bratty ones that I have no time for. Otherwise, I usually try to give a reasonable explaination for why not everyone is a fan of Sonic 2006/Mephiles/whatever/whoever, and that while they're free to continue liking it, they shouldn't be so blind as to pull the dreaded "True Sonic fan" card.

[Wraith]

You ARE right, but it's just infuriating in general to see someone come in like they're hot shit and tell us we're all wrong and the game that almost ended up trashing the franchise "Wasn't that bad" and we're "Not true sonic fans" if we don't like it. I don't mind people liking it, but when 06 fanboys pretend there is nothing wrong with it and everyone else is just crazy, it's just annoying, If your annoyed, you're going to want to say something.

[T-Min]

But let's not pretend that blatantly inflammatory comments like Dio's up there don't fuel both people's defensiveness of their favored media and a perceived unwillingness of the other side to also be bargained with and see the rationale of a more optimistic viewpoint.

Any rationale for an optimistic viewpoint toward Sonic 06 is as inherently flawed as the game itself.

There is really no sort of logic that would point toward 06 being a good game. None whatsoever.

Actually, come to think of it, most discussions regarding 06 nowadays, at least here, boil down to one or two defenders arguing with the rest of the forum.

[Dr. Crusher]

A good example of 2006's Vocal Minority (...Majority?) comes from, unsurprisingly, a lot of the comments in the famous BlazeHedgehog video. Especially the ones that claim the "glitches" are being "done on purpose" (which is true in context, but it's to make a point), and those that wonder out loud "If you don't like it, why are you playing it!?", failing to notice that the whole reason the video exists was to show why it's a bad game, just like the title says.

Like I say, liking 2006 is entirely in your power. But just be careful with how you go about patting yourself on the back for it.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Abominal SnowTaz]

You ARE right, but it's just infuriating in general to see someone come in like they're hot shit and tell us we're all wrong and the game that almost ended up trashing the franchise "Wasn't that bad" and we're "Not true sonic fans" if we don't like it. I don't mind people liking it, but when 06 fanboys pretend there is nothing wrong with it and everyone else is just crazy, it's just annoying, If your annoyed, you're going to want to say something.

Arrow in the fucking target. Nothing boils my piss more than some kid who thinks he knows best throwing his 'knowledge' around in attempts to prove a past lost cause has a bright side. There is no god damn bright side. It was bad, you know it, I know it, and about 1000+ people can and effortlessly will agree in my favor. It's rare that I step in for a ShTH and 06' hoedown, but when I see something like "There's more too it. It's good if you really play and analyze.", I have to throw two cents in.

[Nepenthe]

As an aside, I'm not defending douchebag behavior, and as such I want to remind everyone that it isn't exclusive to Sonic 06 fanboys. People of all stripes act like absolute shit to one another in this very community because reasons. I mean, I've been told in many ways that I'm part of the problem and that my intelligence is lacking because I like fucking Generations. Know-it-alls who want to demean you aren't all in the 12-years-olds club.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that the kids aren't entirely at fault for being defensive and annoying when people are not willing to compromise on their opinions of the game, which makes them all the more willing to paint people who disagree with broad strokes and insults. Even if you're not talking about the "sane people," stereotyping, attacks, and that backhanded tolerance bullshit I mentioned earlier nonetheless doesn't foster a welcoming environment for discussion, hence why I originally said it's not kosher to say anything positive about the game on this forum.

Any rationale for an optimistic viewpoint toward Sonic 06 is as inherently flawed as the game itself.

There is really no sort of logic that would point toward 06 being a good game. None whatsoever.

Actually, come to think of it, most discussions regarding 06 nowadays, at least here, boil down to one or two defenders arguing with the rest of the forum.

While I think it would be difficult to argue that Sonic 06 is more than the sum of its parts, I do think there's some things about it that it's done better than games afterwards, and there are things that I admire or like about it regardless that don't make me froth at the mouth whenever I'm reminded of it. I don't talk about these opinions because I see no point in doing so if people are already closed off to the idea of anything in this game beyond its soundtrack having any merit whatsoever. It's a useless discussion to be had at that point; that, and it's been swept into irrelevance by Sega's recent design decisions moving forward so it's less inviting to talk about anyway in favor of defending the BOOST and Warehawgz.

[Dr. Crusher]

Even if you're not talking about the "sane people," stereotyping, attacks, and that backhanded tolerance bullshit I mentioned earlier nonetheless doesn't foster a welcoming environment for discussion, hence why I originally said it's not kosher to say anything positive about the game on this forum.

Yes, that's what I meant. My earlier "No time for the rabid ones" meaning "Just getting out of there", not "Setting up the insult generator". I'm not like that.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Emmett L. Brown]

It's not like people aren't allowed to enjoy horrible entertainment. Hell, there's entire genres built around exactly that.

I can say one honestly positive thing about Sonic 06: Pokecapn's let's play was the funniest let's play I've ever seen in my life, and I benefited tremendously from having played through the game extensively myself before watching the video series.

[vger]

While Sonic 06 does have a few bits where it shines (music and character models), these can not out weigh the broken game play horrible story and terrible loading times, I think this did a lot to cement peoples opinion that Sonic had finally past it's sell by date and SEGA have been fighting to prove them wrong since and still are.

A re-release of this game even if they fixed the game play and loading problems (which they wouldn't do as it would cost too much to do for a re-release) would do more harm than good.

Let's just all do what the end of the Sonic 06 story did, forget the whole thing!

[Emmett L. Brown]

Let's just all do what the end of the Sonic 06 story did, forget the whole thing!

It'd be really funny if they did a digital download of Sonic 06 for free, but all it contains is a fifteen second clip of Sonic running through Solleana during the festival at night, watching fireworks, and then leaving. THE END.

[TheOcelot]

While Sonic 06 does have a few bits where it shines (music and character models), these can not out weigh the broken game play horrible story and terrible loading times, I think this did a lot to cement peoples opinion that Sonic had finally past it's sell by date and SEGA have been fighting to prove them wrong since and still are.

A re-release of this game even if they fixed the game play and loading problems (which they wouldn't do as it would cost too much to do for a re-release) would do more harm than good.

Let's just all do what the end of the Sonic 06 story did, forget the whole thing!

There are some nice music tracks in this game no question. I like Crisis City and Dusty Desert, but most of the music just becomes iritating noise when your forced to keep replaying levels due to cheap deaths etc.

Edited September 1, 2012 by MilesKnightwing

[Blue Blood]

While Sonic 06 does have a few bits where it shines (music and character models), these can not out weigh the broken game play horrible story and terrible loading times, I think this did a lot to cement peoples opinion that Sonic had finally past it's sell by date and SEGA have been fighting to prove them wrong since and still are.

Whether or not you like the models, do you really think they were right for the series which in every other title (including ShTH even) has shown them to look a lot more on the cartoony and light side? If the game was remade (and it shouldn't be) they'd have to toally revamp everything about it's dark nature. Sonic can be dark, but not in that way.

[Kiovle]

The character models are awful. They are all jittery (But still stiff!) even when they are standing still, and the hedgehogs have really weird, thick brows that look silly and emote and contort in weird ways. And the worst thing? Everyone's mouths are centered, instead of the side mouths that have always been used in art and pre rendered cutscenes since 1991, or ingame starting thankfully in Unleashed (Or maybe the Wii exclusives, I'm not sure). They looked atrocious in Sonic Adventure 1+2 and Sonic Heroes, and it still looks atrocious in Sonic 2006.

Though I am a fan of the pre rendered cutscene models, those look pretty and have none of the in-game models' problems.

Sanik sez: centered mouths r for lozers lol

[Anti Alias]

This model is my favourite of any Sonic Model, unleashed included. come at me bros. he is not stretched nor have the derpy facial expressions like in Sonic colors, I really like it..

Edited September 1, 2012 by Anti Alias

[Nepenthe]

The derpy facial expressions are part of the point in Colors, considering a bit of the comedy was at Sonic's expense. Love 'em; wouldn't have that any other way.

But yeah, the FMV cutscenes were really well done, models included. Although it's weird, I think Shadow had a centered mouth for his final one.

[Kiovle]

Woops didn't realize which one you were talking about lol.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Kiovle

[Anti Alias]

no THAT one, the pre-rendered cutscenes one!

Edited September 1, 2012 by Anti Alias

[Blue Blood]

But yeah, the FMV cutscenes were really well done, models included. Although it's weird, I think Shadow had a centered mouth for his final one.

Hahaha! This is true, but the reasoning is quite funny...

'06 has lots of incomplete/cheaply made CGI that uses in the in game models. The intro cutscenes for every character are in full, high quality CGI, but many of the others aren't. Take the one with Sonic and Elise in a field, Silver's ending, or the scene where Sonic and Tails meet up with Knuckles. They're not in game scenes (made most obvious by how quickly they load), but they're not normal CGI either and use the in-game models. And as a result, they look bloody awful. Shadow's final scene falls into this category, hence he has a centre mouth.

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, I had a feeling that there had been some sort of downgrade for most of the pre-rendered scenes; to me, it's most notable with Silver's final one. There's times when it looks completely like in-game footage and times where it kinda looks a bit higher quality, but all in all it never really approaches the quality level of first cutscene in Soleanna. It was just weird.