Metroid Topic

[Emmett L. Brown]

That's an interesting question. Did Nintendo actually lose any money on Other M? I know it didn't sell anywhere near as well as expected, but surely it at least covered costs of development?

[VO.SUPER]

Yeah, those are hardly cutscenes. They're more of a state transition like reloading a gun or unsheathing a sword. The connection doesn't even make sense anyway since Retro is an American developer.

But retro had Japanese producers. Since this IPod is awkward for linking I suggest you read the East and West thread to know what I'm talking about.

Edited September 15, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Mangoaxe5]

but surely it at least covered costs of development?

Seeing as how it was the first Nintendo game to have full voice acting and it had different language options and a lot of cutscenes, it probably has to be one of the most expensive Nintendo games of all time.

I very much doubt that it remade all the money and time that was put into it.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Vampfox

[Speederino]

I'm not sure the "Sonic recovered from '06 so Metroid can recover from Other M" comparison quite stands up. Sonic was and is a major gaming icon and Sega needs to push him into at least a game a year to stay afloat. Nintendo could drop Metroid any time and there have been so many years between some of its installments that you might have reasonably thought it was dead anyway. For the same reason, though, Nintendo can afford not to let the franchise die after Other M. It's not such a big deal as '06 was.

But by the time Sonic 2006 rolled around the franchise had already lost a ton of respect and recognition. Sad as it is, outside of we diehard fans Sonic was typically seen as a joke that hadn't done anything noteworthy in years. Metroid has NEVER had that problem. Aside from Japan, it's always been a beloved and critically acclaimed franchise. So if the "joke" franchise can recover from the nuclear fallout of '06, Metroid can survive the lukewarm reception of Other M for sure.

[Blue Wisp]

I have to say, comparing Other M to 06 is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure, they are both the less-popular games from each series, but as said before in this topic, wasn't Other M's gameplay kind of well received of sorts? Wasn't Other M's main criticism the storyline?

[Old dead account]

Other M just barely passed the million seller mark after over a year. At least half of its sales had to have been from the bargain bin, so I doubt they really made up the cost of the cutscenes, VA work, etc. Who knows how much they were expecting it to sell, probably more than Prime 1 from the massive hype they gave it.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Retro Studios: Plot Hole Bounty Hunters Part 2:

God I love scanning stuff. So much so that I always start a fresh save when I play Trilogy so none of the scan data is transferred.

Q: How did the Space Pirates get to Aether so fast?

A: Fast nothing. They've been there over a year by the time Samus shows up. The ship the Feds shot down wasn't their initial recon, it was delivering reinforcements. Yes, that does mean they were active on Aether before Samus kicked their comrades off Tallon IV.

Q: Why does Samus never get possessed by Darklings?

A: The Energy Transfer Module made her immune once it bonded to her suit. She's damn lucky no Darklings tried before she acquired it.

Q: Why did the Ing steal all of Samus's equipment?

A: They got a taste for offworld technology when they started fighting and later possessing Space Pirates. Before that they gained a huge advantage in the war by taking control of the Luminoth's robots.

Q: Why did the Dark Alpha Splinter have the Energy Transfer Module?

A: It was the first and best opportunity for the Ing Darklings to have one of their own reach the final Energy Controller.Two doors away from the game being over. Yikes.

Q: Why doesn't Dark Samus just kill all the Space Pirates?

A: They're really useful for gathering up Phazon in convenient containment areas where she can just waltz in and help herself to it. She only kills them if they get in her way, and if she catches them restraining Metroids. Dark Samus has a soft spot for Metroids, cuz, ya know, she is one, technically, sort of.

Q: Why did the Luminoth bother developing the Dark Beam when it sucks against Ing?

A: They thought dark energy would overload the Ing and kill them. Sensible logic, since that's exactly the case with Phazon monsters. They went to work on the Light Beam as soon as they saw how poorly their first attempt fared.

Q: How did Dark Samus get to Aether?

A: After Samus blew the Impact Crater wide open the surviving Space Pirates on Tallon IV scraped up all the Phazon remains they could carry and bugged out. They then carried the Phazon to the only other place in the galaxy they were actively mining the stuff; Aether. That Phazon included the remnants of Metroid Prime and the Phazon Suit = Hello Dark Samus.

Q: Why are there so many Space Pirate containers in Torvus Bog?

A: They were planning on building a second outpost there before Samus showed up and wrecked everything.

Q: Why is there so much Power Suit compatible technology on Aether?

A: Because the Luminoth and the Chozo were BFFs way back when, sharing culture and technology. That's also why Sanctuary Fortress contains the Screw Attack.

Q: Why are the Sky Temple keys spread all over Dark Aether?

A: Because the Luminoth Keybearer cadres actually succeeded in their mission to steal the keys. Alas, all but one of them got killed before they could reach the Sky Temple Courtyard, and he died right there.

Good times.

[Diogenes]

M:OM's main problem was the story because it really was utter garbage, absolutely and completely horrible in all aspects. The gameplay doesn't get as much attention because it's not nearly as bad.

That doesn't mean it isn't still crap.

And comparing Metroid to Sonic, the difference, I think, is that Sega needs Sonic, while Nintendo could drop Metroid and continue on fine. Yes, Metroid (aside from M:OM) is a well-respected and near flawless series, but it's never been a key point in Nintendo's arsenal, not in the way that Mario and Zelda are. After this kind of failure, is Nintendo going to be in a hurry to try Metroid out again? It's not like they haven't stuck a popular but nonvital series in the vault for a while. And who knows how things would go down when (if?) they brought it out again.

[Blue Wisp]

Retro Studios: Plot Hole Bounty Hunters Part 2:

God I love scanning stuff. So much so that I always start a fresh save when I play Trilogy so none of the scan data is transferred.

Q: How did the Space Pirates get to Aether so fast?

A: Fast nothing. They've been there over a year by the time Samus shows up. The ship the Feds shot down wasn't their initial recon, it was delivering reinforcements. Yes, that does mean they were active on Aether before Samus kicked their comrades off Tallon IV.

Q: Why does Samus never get possessed by Darklings?

A: The Energy Transfer Module made her immune once it bonded to her suit. She's damn lucky no Darklings tried before she acquired it.

Q: Why did the Ing steal all of Samus's equipment?

A: They got a taste for offworld technology when they started fighting and later possessing Space Pirates. Before that they gained a huge advantage in the war by taking control of the Luminoth's robots.

Q: Why did the Dark Alpha Splinter have the Energy Transfer Module?

A: It was the first and best opportunity for the Ing Darklings to have one of their own reach the final Energy Controller.Two doors away from the game being over. Yikes.

Q: Why doesn't Dark Samus just kill all the Space Pirates?

A: They're really useful for gathering up Phazon in convenient containment areas where she can just waltz in and help herself to it. She only kills them if they get in her way, and if she catches them restraining Metroids. Dark Samus has a soft spot for Metroids, cuz, ya know, she is one, technically, sort of.

Q: Why did the Luminoth bother developing the Dark Beam when it sucks against Ing?

A: They thought dark energy would overload the Ing and kill them. Sensible logic, since that's exactly the case with Phazon monsters. They went to work on the Light Beam as soon as they saw how poorly their first attempt fared.

Q: How did Dark Samus get to Aether?

A: After Samus blew the Impact Crater wide open the surviving Space Pirates on Tallon IV scraped up all the Phazon remains they could carry and bugged out. They then carried the Phazon to the only other place in the galaxy they were actively mining the stuff; Aether. That Phazon included the remnants of Metroid Prime and the Phazon Suit = Hello Dark Samus.

Q: Why are there so many Space Pirate containers in Torvus Bog?

A: They were planning on building a second outpost there before Samus showed up and wrecked everything.

Q: Why is there so much Power Suit compatible technology on Aether?

A: Because the Luminoth and the Chozo were BFFs way back when, sharing culture and technology. That's also why Sanctuary Fortress contains the Screw Attack.

Q: Why are the Sky Temple keys spread all over Dark Aether?

A: Because the Luminoth Keybearer cadres actually succeeded in their mission to steal the keys. Alas, all but one of them got killed before they could reach the Sky Temple Courtyard, and he died right there.

Good times.

And THIS is why I absolutely love Retro Studios. I wish they made another Metroid Prime game in the future.

[Chaos Warp]

After this kind of failure, is Nintendo going to be in a hurry to try Metroid out again?

Well, there was an interview that stated Miyamoto wanted to see Star Fox and Metroid on the Wii-U..............

[Gregzilla]

Metroid isn't Nintendo's most important franchise, but I don't think it's a franchise they would just put down. Games like Starfox and F-Zero are at a lower tier when it comes to vital games for Nintendo, but I think Metroid is considered one of the more important ones. Not as much as Mario or Zelda, but a lot of fans consider them to be the "Big Three" in Nintendo's arsenal, even though Metroid isn't one of the biggest money-makers.

I think the franchise is important enough to have at least one game every console generation, but they can still give the series a break for a few years without causing an uproar.

[SuperStingray]

But retro had Japanese producers.

[VO.SUPER]

...so? Do you think Shigeru Miyamoto's job was to stand over the lead designer's shoulder going "nope, this isn't Japanese enough." They wouldn't have started a studio with the team that made fucking Turok just so they could have yet another Japanese developer.

You're not thinking outside the box, whether they wanted to or not it's obvious that Japanese producers still have some form of influence upon the development of their games and will most likely communicate their values on a subconscious level. Since I'm on a computer and you have no desire to be cooperative then I'll bring this up for you now.

Iwata

Nintendo's partner, Retro Studios, was in the beginning a company of various possibilities. In 2000, Miyamoto-san decided to concentrate all of the studio's development power on one title: the original Metroid Prime, which eventually led to the development of an entire trilogy. When discussing the development of these titles with Miyamoto-san, it was agreed that the West and the East have their own strengths, and it would be best if we could combine them. But in practice, when it came to defining these strengths, at the time, we really didn't have a clear idea about what they were. Tanabe-san, since you have been travelling to Texas for so many years now, how would you yourself define these strengths?

Tanabe

Well, first of all, when it comes to Western developers, they hold very high standards when it comes to graphics. Perhaps one of the reasons for this is also their preference for realism, so for example, even when you have a simple scene where "a door opens," they really strive to make it look cool. Their good visual sense and great ideas are hard to imitate.

Tabata

Yes. When you work with a Western studio, you begin to get a feeling why Hollywood films look so great. In addition, it's not just the visual style, but also the technical side which tends to be of excellent quality. The physics etc. are also very tightly coded. When Samus turns into the Morph Ball, or when she shoots with her cannon, things like reflections move very naturally.

Tanabe

On the other hand, the strength of Eastern developers is in their attention to very minute things. For example, If you have to choose one over the other, it is Japanese developers who are good at composing chronologically coherent stories. That's why we asked them, among other things, to make a proper chronological table of the events, and to update it regularly. And then there are things to which Nintendo specifically pays much attention to. This is specifically to do with the development of the original Metroid Prime. Originally, because Metroid Prime was an FPS game, the playable character was never seen on the screen. That's why we demanded they give the players the opportunity to have a good look at the character. We told them that, for example, when you turn into the Morph Ball, the camera should zoom back and show you Samus during the transformation. Even though it took a lot of effort, in the end, they managed to do it beautifully. However, at the time, if players wanted, they could skip this animation entirely. This may have been done in order to make the game play more efficiently, to save even a little bit of the player's time, but we felt, "If the player can just skip the animation, the original objective we gave you won't be fulfilled, will it?" This is why we requested they make the animation unskippable.

[Speederino]

Started playing Metroid Prime 2. It's been so long that this is almost like a brand new game for me :3 I too have been scanning everything in sight, and as I learn about numerous races, cultures, species, weapons, and planets it occurs to me that the Metroid universe has a ton of potential for expanded universe stuff. Am I the only one who would like to see something like that? What is it like to live in this universe as someone who isn't an all-powerful bounty hunter? If you were to walk into a bar, what kinds of aliens would you most likely encounter? I'd be curious to see this stuff.

Unfortunately, Nintendo isn't exactly the type for "expanded universes" so I doubt we will ever see anything like this. Right now I imagine a universe similar to Star Wars sans the mysticism.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Started playing Metroid Prime 2. It's been so long that this is almost like a brand new game for me :3 I too have been scanning everything in sight, and as I learn about numerous races, cultures, species, weapons, and planets it occurs to me that the Metroid universe has a ton of potential for expanded universe stuff. Am I the only one who would like to see something like that? What is it like to live in this universe as someone who isn't an all-powerful bounty hunter? If you were to walk into a bar, what kinds of aliens would you most likely encounter? I'd be curious to see this stuff.

Unfortunately, Nintendo isn't exactly the type for "expanded universes" so I doubt we will ever see anything like this. Right now I imagine a universe similar to Star Wars sans the mysticism.

Sans mysticism? What about the Chozo? Or the Luminoth?

[Speederino]

Sans mysticism? What about the Chozo? Or the Luminoth?

I mean it isn't as prevalent as something like the Force, which everyone knows about and plays a central role in the franchise. In Metroid this stuff seems to be exclusive to specific races and not counted as scientific fact by the universe at large. Hell, it's pretty much only the Prime trilogy that contains any kind of mystical elements whatsoever, so it's clearly not a big, important thing.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Original Character Blonic

[SuperStingray]

I mean it isn't as prevalent as something like the Force, which everyone knows about and plays a central role in the franchise. In Metroid this stuff seems to be exclusive to specific races and not counted as scientific fact by the universe at large. Hell, it's pretty much only the Prime trilogy that contains any kind of mystical elements whatsoever, so it's clearly not a big, important thing.

Zero Mission and Hunters were FULL of that stuff.

[Speederino]

Zero Mission and Hunters were FULL of that stuff.

Hunters? I literally just finished that and the only thing that was for sure mystical were the telepathic messages you get from the Alimbics after collecting an octolith. Otherwise I'm really not seeing it. Gorea is never mentioned as being other-worldly or spiritual, and I didn't really see anything like it in the scans either. Though I admit, I may have missed a few because the game just scatters them about randomly and out of order, so it's kind of an accomplishment NOT to miss them.

Zero Mission, sort of. Anything concerning the Chozo is bound to have a mystical flavor, but I wouldn't say the game was filled with it. For that matter...what exactly are the Chozo Statues anyways? I've never really thought about them that much. Ancient tech? Spiritual guardians? Are they sentient? The only time we really learn about them is a scan in Prime 1 that says constructing them is a sacred process, trusted only to those with "experience in such matters."

...Wait, if the only people who can work on them are people with experience working on them, then how do you earn experience working on them if you can't work on them?

[Emmett L. Brown]

I like to think that mystical magical energies in the Metroid universe are simply natural phenomena that their science haven't been able to fully understand yet. After all, the Chozo were totally mystical, yet when it came time to build their power armours and weapons of war, it's technology all the way - super-advanced technology with mysterious power sources that the Space Pirates and the Federation can't properly replicate, but technology nonetheless.

...

Wait, did I just praise midi-cholrians? Oh god, I did, didn't I? I feel bad now.

[SuperStingray]

Hunters? I literally just finished that and the only thing that was for sure mystical were the telepathic messages you get from the Alimbics after collecting an octolith. Otherwise I'm really not seeing it. Gorea is never mentioned as being other-worldly or spiritual, and I didn't really see anything like it in the scans either. Though I admit, I may have missed a few because the game just scatters them about randomly and out of order, so it's kind of an accomplishment NOT to miss them.

Zero Mission, sort of. Anything concerning the Chozo is bound to have a mystical flavor, but I wouldn't say the game was filled with it. For that matter...what exactly are the Chozo Statues anyways? I've never really thought about them that much. Ancient tech? Spiritual guardians? Are they sentient? The only time we really learn about them is a scan in Prime 1 that says constructing them is a sacred process, trusted only to those with "experience in such matters."

I didn't say supernatural, just mystical. The Alimbics didn't carry any less of that archaic, forgotten-world vibe than the Luminoths did in Prime 2; probably even more considering you never even met them. And Zero Mission takes you to a few long-lost Chozo temples, gives you artifacts so old they aren't even compatible with the power suit and even includes a boss fight with a ghost carrying your aura.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I like to think that mystical magical energies in the Metroid universe are simply natural phenomena that their science haven't been able to fully understand yet. After all, the Chozo were totally mystical, yet when it came time to build their power armours and weapons of war, it's technology all the way - super-advanced technology with mysterious power sources that the Space Pirates and the Federation can't properly replicate, but technology nonetheless.

I'm alright with them being supernatural. The Chozo being pretty technologically brilliant doesn't quite tarnish the magic of what they are.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Whelp, that's the fourth time I've beaten Metroid Prime 2 to 100%. And the fourth time I've failed to complete the journal dispite obsessively scanning everything in sight.

I just know I'm missing something stupid like the Ice Shriekbats in Prime 1 that only appear in one single room the first time you go through it.

Has anyone here ever managed to get 100% scan data in Prime 2?

[Semi-colon e]

I have never got all the scans in any of them. Prime 2 especially actually, as while there are two for Dark Samus's timed battle, I just don't bother because I am tired out from Emperor Ing in terms of concentration and I can't stand the Dark Samus fight at the end. I probably hate it more than the Boost Guardian.

[Old dead account]

I've gotten 100% scans on Prime 1, 2 and 3. And I've done it on the gamecube versions where they don't save after starting a new game, tedious shit. Thankfully they fixed this in Prime trilogy.

[DarkDefeater]

I have 100% scans with all three games in the metroid prime triology...Having a hint book helped greatly.